The Official ES All Things Redskins Name Change Thread (Reboot Edition---Read New OP)

[Larry]

nah, ive dismissed the media members. I dont care about them.

I care about the various native American groups that have said they are offended by it. I care about the various lawsuits from said Native American groups about the name.

Just pointing out that it's at least debatable whether there are any "native American groups" objecting in any way. (Unless your definition of "native American group" is "more than one individual".)

I've seen things that at least imply (but I don't regard them as really proof) that the person who's putting his name behind the ads and the protests (the money is coming from a mystery source) seems to be someone who was once elected as chief of said tribe, but who was later voted out of office by a higher body, and was then voted out, again, a year later, but apparently the Bureau of Indian Affairs has not yet officially removed his diplomatic status, so to speak, and he now makes a living by claiming to be the tribe, and endorsing things.

[chipwhich]

Changing the name and logo really makes them a different team.  The Titans are technically the Houston Oilers, but really, the Houston Oilers are dead.  That team is gone.  The Oilers are a fossil in NFL lore.  Do you want that for the Redskins?  I don't. Why don't you change the L in your name to an H?  It's just a letter.  It's just a name.  It's no big deal.

 

Could you come up with a worse example?

 

The Oilers MOVED to a DIFFERENT state.

If you are a fan of a team, you are a fan regardless of their name, and regardless if their coach is Joe Gibbs or Jim Zorn.  You are a fan regardless of the fact that the team has SUCKED and not deserved fans for the last 20+ years.  I live in MD, I haven't jumped on the Ravens bandwagon just because my team is no good.  And I wont do it because they change their name.

[War Paint]

nah, ive dismissed the media members. I dont care about them.

I care about the various native American groups that have said they are offended by it. I care about the various lawsuits from said Native American groups about the name. And even thought there were only like 15 people at that protest yesterday, their opinions matter (especially since a big reason for the low numbers is the genocide this country had committed against them those years ago). The name is a slur, it should be changed.

Will it be changed? Doubt it because money makes the world go around, and there are not enough Native Americans out there to mount any type of protest, but for me its long overdue.

Just because there is a "group" with a view or agenda doesn't mean that they speak for the majority they supposedly represent.  Does the Westboro Baptist church represent all Christians?  I would bet that there are a lot more Native Americans who have no problem with our name and may actually like it than don't like it.  The Redskins have many fans with Native American blood in them.

 

Could you come up with a worse example?

 

The Oilers MOVED to a DIFFERENT state.

If you are a fan of a team, you are a fan regardless of their name, and regardless if their coach is Joe Gibbs or Jim Zorn.  You are a fan regardless of the fact that the team has SUCKED and not deserved fans for the last 20+ years.  I live in MD, I haven't jumped on the Ravens bandwagon just because my team is no good.  And I wont do it because they change their name.

My example is fine and on point.  You are viewing it from an angle of a local and you are greatly underestimating the magnitude of a name and logo change.  You completely ignore the fact that the Redskins fan base spreads throughout a lot of the south, which is  located in DIFFERENT states.  You do know that the Redskins were considered the south's team at one time right?  Many Redskins fans in the south were Redskins fans because of the influence the Redskins had in the south and it's a family tradition for most.  It wasn't because they had local ties to Virginia or the D.C. area.  The Redskins fans from the south have loyalty to the Redskins, not to Virginia, D.C., or Landover, Maryland. The Redskins were on T.V. every Sunday though out the Carolinas and parts of the south.  Over time that changed as new NFL teams were introduced. 

 

If you change the name and logo, that shatters the family tradition in the south.  The only part of the fan base that remains will be mostly localized.  If that happens, then yes, the Redskins name and logo will go the way of the Oilers.  How are team identities separated from one another?  Name, logo, and location.   If you change the name and logo of a team, the only thing left is location.  The fan base from the south identify with the name,logo and the Redskins memories, not the location.  The team in Landover, Maryland will have the fan base the size of the Washington Nationals if a name and logo change happens.

[The Evil Genius]

If it would buy us a top 5 D, I'm all for becoming the Washington Sea Chickens.

 

 

as an aside..does anyone else only refer to this team as the Skins? I seem to do that 99% of the time...not sure why though.

[grego]

The name is a slur, it should be changed.

 

 

 

what makes you say the name is a slur?

[Hersh]

My example is fine and on point.  You are viewing it from an angle of a local and you are greatly underestimating the magnitude of a name and logo change.  You completely ignore the fact that the Redskins fan base spreads throughout a lot of the south, which is  located in DIFFERENT states.  You do know that the Redskins were considered the south's team at one time right?  Many Redskins fans in the south were Redskins fans because of the influence the Redskins had in the south and it's a family tradition for most.  It wasn't because they had local ties to Virginia or the D.C. area.  The Redskins fans from the south have loyalty to the Redskins, not to Virginia, D.C., or Landover, Maryland. The Redskins were on T.V. every Sunday though out the Carolinas and parts of the south.  Over time that changed as new NFL teams were introduced. 

 

If you change the name and logo, that shatters the family tradition in the south.  The only part of the fan base that remains will be mostly localized.  If that happens, then yes, the Redskins name and logo will go the way of the Oilers.  How are team identities separated from one another?  Name, logo, and location.   If you change the name and logo of a team, the only thing left is location.  The fan base from the south identify with the name,logo and the Redskins memories, not the location.  The team in Landover, Maryland will have the fan base the size of the Washington Nationals if a name and logo change happens.

 

I'm in agreement that your example is a poor one cause it's only true if the team actually moves. Otherwise the only thing that matters is the location. If the Redskins became the Washington Whatevers and won the Superbowl the next year, there isn't a single person that's a current Redskins fan that wouldn't cheer/celebrate just as much. I would bet the super majority of people didn't start liking the Redskins cause they thought the name sounded cool, they started liking them cause they either lived in the region or liked the players on the team.

 

Personally I don't care about any team's logo or nickname that I support. I just want to see them win.

[Mr. Sinister]

I agree. If they do change the name, I'd much prefer that they changed everything, instead of desperately trying to hold on to the past. I'll always support them no matter what.

[War Paint]

I'm in agreement that your example is a poor one cause it's only true if the team actually moves. Otherwise the only thing that matters is the location. If the Redskins became the Washington Whatevers and won the Superbowl the next year, there isn't a single person that's a current Redskins fan that wouldn't cheer/celebrate just as much. I would bet the super majority of people didn't start liking the Redskins cause they thought the name sounded cool, they started liking them cause they either lived in the region or liked the players on the team.

 

Personally I don't care about any team's logo or nickname that I support. I just want to see them win.

I disagree.  The fan base outside of the D.C. region will drop like flies because the loyalty lies with the Redskins, not the location.  If the Redskins become the "Warriors" with a different mascot or logo, fans in other states might as well pull for their local team.  "R.I.P Redskins. Here you lie next to the Oilers."

I agree. If they do change the name, I'd much prefer that they changed everything, instead of desperately trying to hold on to the past. I'll always support them no matter what.

Hello to the new fan base, the size of the Washington Nats.

[Mr. Sinister]

Hello to the new fan base, the size of the Washington Nats.

 

Then I hope they don't let the door hit them in the ass on the way out 

 

I think some people may stop cheering  for the team, but I think the notion that the moment the team changes the name would cause a large portion of the fanbase to go up in flames is a little ridiculous. Sure, people will be upset, but eventually they'd come back. Fans support their teams through the good times and the bad (and very awkward).

 

People don't like change, especially when the change happens to something they're very fond of. The name/colors may change, but the memories/records will still be there. They don't disappear. This team has been horrible for the better part of the last 20 years... If people can still stay with the team throughout the horrors that were witnessed during that time span, they'll stick with the team through this. 

[Hersh]

I disagree.  The fan base outside of the D.C. region will drop like flies because the loyalty lies with the Redskins, not the location.  If the Redskins become the "Warriors" with a different mascot or logo, fans in other states might as well pull for their local team.  "R.I.P Redskins. Here you lie next to the Oilers."

Hello to the new fan base, the size of the Washington Nats.

 

I've never actually met anyone that's done that or would do that so I'm not sure why you think that will happen. If people are going to jump ship it will be because they team sucks, not cause the name changes. Plus, if any fan really wants to jump ship because of a name change...see ya.

[War Paint]

I've never actually met anyone that's done that or would do that so I'm not sure why you think that will happen. If people are going to jump ship it will be because they team sucks, not cause the name changes. Plus, if any fan really wants to jump ship because of a name change...see ya.

Yep, if a name and logo change happens, I'm out, along with the vast majority of out of state Redskin fans who have no local ties to the D.C. area.  To continue to support them after a logo and name change would be supporting the triumph of whiny, bleeding heart, agenda driven fools.  I doubt the door will hit me on the way out because there will be a long line behind me which will keep the door open, unless of course, I am the very last one out, then maybe the door will hit me in the backside.

[Troy Fakeman]

Oh, I'm offended..  unless it rains.

 

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/23662838/look-redskins-protest-by-wisconsin-tribe-seems-to-have-fizzled

 

Can't i just be offended when it's convenient?

Obviously there is a huge groundswell of popular support, and this entire fiasco is NOT just some trumped up media grandstanding.

 

~Bang

 

 

This is priceless.  LoL. 

 

We did have, however, another member in the media embrace the name change - and he's a huge Skins fan.  Matthew Berry, who's Redskins fanhood is unquestioned, publicly stated on his weekly Fantasy Football Podcast that he is no longer referring to them as the Redskins. 

It was weird - he kept saying "Washington Football Club".  And that's kind of where i'm leaning when we do change our name - call them the "Washington Football Club".  After hearing him say it 5 or 6 times in a sentence, however, it sounded really weird and out of place. 

 

Again - I don't want them to change the name, and Dan doesn't have to...but I think we should, and will...and get back to focusing on football. 

 

One by one...they are lining up.  You can't be associated or "tied to" racism.  While most of us agree that Redskins does not equate to racism, the social progressive movement / name-changers are using that dirty tactic...claiming you support racism if you DO NOT want the name changed.  Matthew Berry of ESPN is the latest example, and like i said he is a HUGE Redskins fan.  HUGE.  There will be more.  Pretty soon all of ESPN...and most broadcasters will join the cause.  Trust me - you won't find one person who wants to be branded as a racist because they are defending the term Redskin.  Dirty tactic, we disagree with it and have our arguing points to support otherwise...but their strategy is paying off (no matter how ludicrous or historically incorrect it actually is).   

[Mr. Sinister]

I just wish there was some way to get the heads of all known tribes together (without the Redskins being a part of it) where there can be a large roundtable discussion, and the voices that really need to be heard, will be heard. They deserve to be given a chance to speak. Chances are that this will have to gain more traction before that happens.

[Bang]

lol they're lining up.

 

 yeah,, nine of them lined up yesterday.

Jokers in the media and their consciences aren't my concern. I don't read them to learn about their personal feelings. 

 

but you're right, as with much of this entire debate, the facts of how many just couldn't be bothered to be concerned over it will be obscured so media members can pat themselves on the back and talk about how socially conscious they are.

 

~Bang

[pjfootballer]

If I'm branded a racist for saying Redskins or wearing anything that says Redskins, so be it.  I don't give two rats asses what anyone thinks of me.  I never have and never will.  I was the poster child for ignoring peer pressure growing up and I'll continue to call the the Redskins until the day I die, because I know in "my heart" that I'm not using it pejoritively.

[Troy Fakeman]

but you're right, as with much of this entire debate, the facts of how many just couldn't be bothered to be concerned over it will be obscured so media members can pat themselves on the back and talk about how socially conscious they are.

 

~Bang

 

 

Yup...

 

It's definitely morphed into a race to be righteous...coupled with an attempt to escape being branded, no matter your true stance or fanhood. 

 

I follow Matthew Berry every day - and even his decision has already had an effect on other media members.  Stephania Bell...Nate Ravitz...and soon Christopher Harris & company.  You and I can joke about how small their numbers are now - but with each day / week their numbers grow. 

[thebluefood]

Going the no official nickname route might be pretty cool. Seems to work for the soccer clubs in Europe. 

[War Paint]

Yup...

 

It's definitely morphed into a race to be righteous...coupled with an attempt to escape being branded, no matter your true stance or fanhood. 

 

I follow Matthew Berry every day - and even his decision has already had an effect on other media members.  Stephania Bell...Nate Ravitz...and soon Christopher Harris & company.  You and I can joke about how small their numbers are now - but with each day / week their numbers grow. 

I give two dumps about Matthew Berry.  Peter King is more well known than Matthew Berry and I don't care about King's opinion. Why should I care about a fantasy football ESPN dude? Why should I care about anything in regards to ESPN?

[MattFancy]

The funny thing is ESPN had no problem with the name last week when everyone was tuning into the MNF game.

 

Same for SI when they put RG3 on the NFL Preview edition.

[War Paint]

The funny thing is ESPN had no problem with the name last week when everyone was tuning into the MNF game.

 

Same for SI when they put RG3 on the NFL Preview edition.

Exactly.  They are hypocrites.  If they are truly against our name then don't schedule us for MNF or feature articles about us.  I guess their ratings and profits out weigh the integrity of their crusade.

[nonniey]

chipwhich, on 16 Sept 2013 - 07:48, said:

Could you come up with a worse example?

The Oilers MOVED to a DIFFERENT state.

If you are a fan of a team, you are a fan regardless of their name, and regardless if their coach is Joe Gibbs or Jim Zorn. You are a fan regardless of the fact that the team has SUCKED and not deserved fans for the last 20+ years. I live in MD, I haven't jumped on the Ravens bandwagon just because my team is no good. And I wont do it because they change their name.

OK how do you explain away the Wizards then? Most don't think they're same as the Bullets. He has a point a name change really would render the Redskins to history and eventually most would not consider them to be the same.

[Mr. Sinister]

OK how do you explain away the Wizards then? Most don't think they're same as the Bullets. He has a point a name change really would render the Redskins to history and eventually most would not consider them to be the same.

 

I think its because the Wizards have sucked, in which people will look for things to be upset about (you could apply that to anything in life, where people get upset, and just rail on anything that they can), rather than the actual reasons why their team sucks... They associate "Wizards" with "Losers".

 

When the Wizards were making the playoffs, and had a star player in Gilbert Arenas, I didn't hear a lot of complaints about the team name from friends of mine, and on talk radio. I didn't hear it when Michael Jordan came out of retirement and played for them, giving them an air of excitement. Even for the people that really hated it, it probably got put on the backburner, since the team was good. Now that they've sucked for awhile, it gets brought back to the forefront, and people get angry about it again, because its convenient. 

 

Much like the name "Redskins," people didn't care about it (enough) when the team was a laughing stock, but once they got good, and drafted a superstar money making player in RG3, everyone has come out of the woodwork, and it is more convenient to publicly bash the name. It's the same thing, but in reverse.

 

People don't think that "Wizards" is the same as "Bullets" (in terms of team records, titles, memories, etc) because they just don't want to, not because they can't. The team didn't move. It's still there.

[The Evil Genius]

Personally, I think people who claim they won't support the team anymore when and if the Skins change their name aren't really fans of the team to begin with.

 

I don't think Riggo, the Hogs, or the Fun Bunch's legacy will be tarnished (or forgotten) if the team decides they want to become the Washington Warriors (or the Washington *insert name here*).

[Predicto]

OK how do you explain away the Wizards then? Most don't think they're same as the Bullets. He has a point a name change really would render the Redskins to history and eventually most would not consider them to be the same.

 

I lived in DC back during the Bullets' best days, and pretty much no one gave a damn about them back then either.  

[Troy Fakeman]

Personally, I think people who claim they won't support the team anymore when and if the Skins change their name aren't really fans of the team to begin with.

 

I don't think Riggo, the Hogs, or the Fun Bunch's legacy will be tarnished (or forgotten) if the team decides they want to become the Washington Warriors (or the Washington *insert name here*).

 

 

I agree. 

 

I think the big debate won't actually be the name change - some fans are already starting to come around to it.  I think the big debate will be colors.  Do they keep B&G?  I hope so...but one could see them adapting the Red / White / Blue to go w/ the city-sports-theme.