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The Official ES All Things Redskins Name Change Thread (Reboot Edition---Read New OP)


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"What are you going to call them, a Brownskin?" -- Mike Ditka on theWashington Redskins.

Ditka calls Redskins name debate 'stupid' and 'appalling'

In an online interview, Mike Ditka vented about the controversial name and those...

SPORTINGNEWS.COM

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2014-08-19/nfl-redskins-mike-ditka-name-debate-stupid-appalling-honor-pride?eadid=SOC%2FFB%2FSNMain

"This is so stupid it’s appalling,'' Ditka, now an ESPN analyst, told the website redskinshistorian.com, "and I hope that owner keeps fighting for it and never changes it, because the Redskins are part of an American football history, and it should never be anything but the Washington Redskins. That’s the way it is.

"What are you going to call them, a Brownskin?" -- Mike Ditka on theWashington Redskins.

Ditka calls Redskins name debate 'stupid' and 'appalling'

In an online interview, Mike Ditka vented about the controversial name and those...

SPORTINGNEWS.COM

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2014-08-19/nfl-redskins-mike-ditka-name-debate-stupid-appalling-honor-pride?eadid=SOC%2FFB%2FSNMain

"This is so stupid it’s appalling,'' Ditka, now an ESPN analyst, told the website redskinshistorian.com, "and I hope that owner keeps fighting for it and never changes it, because the Redskins are part of an American football history, and it should never be anything but the Washington Redskins. That’s the way it is.

Thank you Mike Ditka for the voice of sanity and reason. This whole name change debate is nothing more but a power trip from the far left. Edited by srtman04
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I think he did exactly what he should have done, if he had a problem with the name. 

 

He asked not to be put in a position where his impartiality might be compromised or questioned. 

 

And he didn't use it as a soapbox to promote his views, or himself. 

 

Props to the guy for his integrity. 

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I think he did exactly what he should have done, if he had a problem with the name. 

 

He asked not to be put in a position where his impartiality might be compromised or questioned. 

 

And he didn't use it as a soapbox to promote his views, or himself. 

 

Props to the guy for his integrity. 

 

Yup I agree. And he didn't make a big deal about it while he was reffing either.

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I'm not saying that what he did wasn't a good approach compared to what we have seen but it's a bit overboard to refuse to ref a game because of a name.

 

Similar to how people think it's ridiculous to leave the term 'Redskins' out of broadcasting, printing, or even avoiding broadcasting the games altogether.

Edited by steve09ru
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Yup I agree. And he didn't make a big deal about it while he was reffing either.

 

Agree as well--I have no problem with his stance.

 

The bigger issue is the amount of misinformation spread out--and only telling one side of the story. I wonder how many people would did what Carey did if they ahd all the facts--rather than the emotional arguments.

 

I fault Wise, Deadspin, PFT, Olbermann, etc.

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I think Carey is the most interesting figure to chime in thus far, given his life experiences and accomplishments, etc.

HE IS LYING!!!

 

Try to remember that Bucs/Redskins playoff game from 2005. He had an obvious bias against the Redskins. And it had NOTHING to do with the name. I bet it wasn't even him who asked to stop reffing the games, I bet the NFL made him stop reffing our games. He's lying. 

 

Oh, and why wait until you have a TV show, or something, to say anything about the name? He's lying. 

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I know the odds are pretty slim, but I really really really hope the Redskins win the Super Bowl this year. I would rub it in the face of anybody who has a problem with the name.

A sample of how that conversation would go:
Non-Fact Caring Name Hater: I think the Redskins name is derogatory!
Me: Kiss the ring. lol
Non-Fact Caring Name Hater: I think it disparages Native Americans!
Me: Kiss the ring. lol
Non-Fact Caring Name Hater: The Redskins are racists!
Me: Kiss the ring. lol

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just to let you know... i find the whiney/smug/everyone else is disingenuous  tone of posts in this thread pretty annoying.   

I am sure it is the same way many of you perceive the position of halbritter et al (whom i have never seen, i have only seen all of your references to most of these "name haters") 

 

 

for future reference... a tact along the lines of:  "Oh, you find the name offensive because of x?  I actually think the name is positive because of y..."

 

is much MUCH more persuasive than:   "Now z is a lying jackass too, because he disagrees with me..."

 

 

it is frankly amazing to me that you people cannot come to grips with the fact that it is NOT a slam dunk that the name isn't "offensive", for the simple reason that ofensive isn't a definable term... it is a feeling.   

 

If some people feel the name is offensive, then its offensive to them.  this isn't some trick with mirrors, or some PC whitewashing, its personal perception.  and furthermore, if  more and more people feel like the name is "offensive", then its not more people being stupid, or more people lying, it is perception on an issue changing.... 

 

and... all of this leads to the final point .... the more ham-fisted that people defend the name, the more perceptions will change against it.    

 

(which is to say... Ditka isn't helping the case much)

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is much MUCH more persuasive than:   "Now z is a lying jackass too, because he disagrees with me..."

I don't know if this is a response to my post about Carey, but he is lying. It has nothing to do with the Redskins name. I am telling y'all he's lying because he really is lying. Dude is shady. 

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just to let you know... i find the whiney/smug/everyone else is disingenuous  tone of posts in this thread pretty annoying.   

I am sure it is the same way many of you perceive the position of halbritter et al (whom i have never seen, i have only seen all of your references to most of these "name haters") 

 

 

for future reference... a tact along the lines of:  "Oh, you find the name offensive because of x?  I actually think the name is positive because of y..."

 

is much MUCH more persuasive than:   "Now z is a lying jackass too, because he disagrees with me..."

 

 

it is frankly amazing to me that you people cannot come to grips with the fact that it is NOT a slam dunk that the name isn't "offensive", for the simple reason that ofensive isn't a definable term... it is a feeling.   

 

If some people feel the name is offensive, then its offensive to them.  this isn't some trick with mirrors, or some PC whitewashing, its personal perception.  and furthermore, if  more and more people feel like the name is "offensive", then its not more people being stupid, or more people lying, it is perception on an issue changing.... 

 

and... all of this leads to the final point .... the more ham-fisted that people defend the name, the more perceptions will change against it.    

 

(which is to say... Ditka isn't helping the case much)

 

I'm not going to retype my stance on it, and the majority of the information already presented, over and over again anytime a new article comes up.  But since you asked, it's ridiculous that non-Natives are taking such a strong stand on something that many Native American's find pride in.  If Native Americans want to argue about it, ok fine but if you're not Native American then you shouldn't push the issue on people because a small percentage think it's negative.

 

And no, I'm not being a hypocrite with stating the above.  Why?  Because I respect a Native American's opinion on an issue that may actually bring offense to them.  Someone not directly tied to the name?  well, again Boo Hoo, talk to the people who are Native Americans and don't find offense to it.  And no, I'm not saying people who aren't Native American shouldn't have a positive view of the word, but look at the name as a whole instead of only through 10% of Native American's eyes. 

Edited by steve09ru
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Mcsluggo-

When you say you haven't seen halbritter, what are you referring to?

As far as the slam dunk the name isn't offensive, I would say this- it's a slam dunk the name isn't offensive in certain contexts. (One being the the way it's used by the team).

It's also a slam dunk that if a non NA said to a NA something like "dirty redskin", they are using a benign word in a disparaging way.

That part of the issue is simple- context determines meaning.

When someone wants to claim offense where obviously none is intended, that's when it gets murky.

The other side of that slam dunk are people saying it "is" a slur no matter what. You agree that's unfair to say as well?

Edited by grego
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From my conversations with a Native American on Facebook who is against the name...he has a big problem with the headdresses the fans wear.  I think he has a bigger problem with that than he does the name itself.  I told him like 1% of the fans wear headdresses, and the band doesn't wear them anymore.  I said if that was really bothering Natives I could see stopping that.  Could be a thing just understood among the fans...don't wear Native headdresses to the games,..unless you are a Native of course.  Simple thing. 

 

I don't mean to come off combative, but why should they (Indians) be the judge to decide who can wear a head dress or not? Because they perceive it as disrespectful to their religion? How many Indians actually practice shamanism in this day and age. And frankly, the feather headress that is the most popularly depicted was only used by the Plains Tribes (Ogala, Lakota).

 

This country as a whole seems to have no issue with actively mocking or disrespecting a religion and some of them (like Christianity) are pretty much told to suck it up. Mormons wear undergarments with religious meaning and that's a running joke to a lot of people. I'm atheist for what it's worth.

 

Take the head dress of an ancient Egyptian costume for example... do we really believe that the average street level Egyptian wore silk raiments and headress(Uraeus)? No, it worn by the priests and rulers (seen as gods). Modern Egyptians don't seem to be affected.

 

The same could be said about horns on a Viking helmet. Some were found on ceremonial headpieces but not the average helmet. And yet these "ceremonial adornmants" are free to be recreated every halloween. Scandanavians don't care.

 

Laurel leaves??? Used to only be worn by Victorious military member in Rome.... now any drunk frat boy can do it, but are Italians all wound up about it? 

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I know the odds are pretty slim, but I really really really hope the Redskins win the Super Bowl this year. I would rub it in the face of anybody who has a problem with the name.

A sample of how that conversation would go:

Non-Fact Caring Name Hater: I think the Redskins name is derogatory!

Me: Kiss the ring. lol

Non-Fact Caring Name Hater: I think it disparages Native Americans!

Me: Kiss the ring. lol

Non-Fact Caring Name Hater: The Redskins are racists!

Me: Kiss the ring. lol

 

 

Yah I'm sure that will do wonders about the perception of our fan base....like we're all douche bags of unimaginable proportions. 

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just to let you know... i find the whiney/smug/everyone else is disingenuous  tone of posts in this thread pretty annoying.   

I am sure it is the same way many of you perceive the position of halbritter et al (whom i have never seen, i have only seen all of your references to most of these "name haters") 

 

 

for future reference... a tact along the lines of:  "Oh, you find the name offensive because of x?  I actually think the name is positive because of y..."

 

is much MUCH more persuasive than:   "Now z is a lying jackass too, because he disagrees with me..."

 

 

it is frankly amazing to me that you people cannot come to grips with the fact that it is NOT a slam dunk that the name isn't "offensive", for the simple reason that ofensive isn't a definable term... it is a feeling.   

 

If some people feel the name is offensive, then its offensive to them.  this isn't some trick with mirrors, or some PC whitewashing, its personal perception.  and furthermore, if  more and more people feel like the name is "offensive", then its not more people being stupid, or more people lying, it is perception on an issue changing.... 

 

and... all of this leads to the final point .... the more ham-fisted that people defend the name, the more perceptions will change against it.    

 

(which is to say... Ditka isn't helping the case much)

 

tropic-thunder.jpg

YOU people? 

My Grandma used to say joke them if they can't take a ****. WE ARE REDSKINS ‏@WeAreRedskins  3m

LAUNCHED TODAY: PHONE & TABLET CASES! 50% OFF FOR 4 DAYS ONLY...ALMOST FREE! http://weareredskins.spreadshirt.com  #HTTR pic.twitter.com/TLRnU3LeDb

 

 

 
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I've been going to Redskins games for nearly 30 years and I've never seen anyone in a head dress other than Chief Zee and the marching band.

 

They're used to be a donk that sat in front of us in 228  that wore a head dress and painted his face for all the games.

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Yah I'm sure that will do wonders about the perception of our fan base....like we're all douche bags of unimaginable proportions. 

Who cares what they think about our fan base? They are already attacking the name. They are ignoring the facts. I'm getting tired of playing the face; I'm going to embrace the heel role fully. 

 

My new theme song...

 

WOLFPACK! lol

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