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The Official ES All Things Redskins Name Change Thread (Reboot Edition---Read New OP)

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Seriously man, do you have anything at all?

Just admit you don't understand the argument or how to click the little colored linky things that take you to the various proofs for my incoherent argument, and we can call it a day.

 

ridiculous. Silly person.

 

~Bang

Edited by Bang
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Bang, the reason I specified Nike is because they are the company that makes the official jerseys & other NFL gear.

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Bang, the reason I specified Nike is because they are the company that makes the official jerseys & other NFL gear.

Oh, yeah, i wasn't singling them out. They're just one of a long line of huge companies that does big business with the NFL and it's players. And if one should pull out, another will step right up.

I have not heard of any sponsors dropping RG3 over the name, or even making any waves at all.

 

~Bang

Edited by Bang
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Bang,

If you have a coherent argument you could make it more succinctly.

Gee you really told him didn't ya?  I mean what a scathing,well thought out rebuttal to Bang's numerous,well researched reponse(s). Indeed, a rapier like wit being demonstrated there.  :rolleyes:

 

 

Planter your responses have been nothing if not at least semi-incoherent and hardly succinct. You've been all over the place. I'd say if it's come down to responses like that one above,save us the wordy "Oh yeah? And another thing" type of response and simply bow out semi gracefully and move on to other topics. 

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Oh, yeah, i wasn't singling them out. They're just one of a long line of huge companies that does big business with the NFL and it's players. And if one should pull out, another will step right up.

I have not heard of any sponsors dropping RG3 over the name, or even making any waves at all.

 

~Bang

I agree. Of all the "noise" from the minority of complainers, I haven't heard a single thing about any sponsors (especially FedEx or Nike) making a peep about this whole thing. And I seriously doubt we will.

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Dan Stewart @thatdanstewart  ·  Oct 7
The Washington Redskins are to change their name, due to negative associations. From now on, they will be known as the "Maryland Redskins"

 

 

 

whats next from dan stewart? a redskin potato joke?

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I agree. Of all the "noise" from the minority of complainers, I haven't heard a single thing about any sponsors (especially FedEx or Nike) making a peep about this whole thing. And I seriously doubt we will.

Chances are it's because Nike and Fed Ex are doing their own private polling and are seeing that right now there's no need.  They won't move until or unless it becomes something where there is more harm than good to the relationship.

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Money talks.

 

No sponsor is leaving this team, not one. The Redskins are the 3rd most valuable team in the NFL and 7th most in the world. Why would a sponsor cave for a couple of middle aged white men, 50 Democratic Senators (with a 12% approval rate) and a couple thousand of radical Native Americans?

 

I've engaged some of these radicals on the twitter. These are the folks that want to ban Thanksgiving.

 

And who cares if our team is hated by the media, villains are cool!

 

Ric Flair, Boba Fett, Megatron (G1), Tony Montana, Ivan Drago - all bad ass villains.

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These are the folks that want to ban Thanksgiving.

 

 

As a NA myself...

 

That is more understandable.

 

Don't get me wrong we enjoy it as a family day, and eat...but it is not something that we celebrate or decorate for.

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Saw this on facebook and thought it was worth sharing.  Washington Post has an article about the Wetzel family and their split views on the Redskins name.

 

http://m.washingtonpost.com/local/one-native-american-family-with-redskins-ties-disagrees-on-whether-name-is-offensive/2014/07/06/ea8c5b46-fc8c-11e3-932c-0a55b81f48ce_story.html

 

Liked this part:

 

"Donald Wetzel Sr. said his recent trip to the team’s headquarters in Loudoun County was a first for him. The team flew him, his son and his brother in, he said, to speak about Blackie Wetzel’s legacy.

 

“We just went out there to honor our dad,” he said. “And that’s exactly what we did.”

 

Wetzel said they discussed the logo with team officials during a meeting and spoke one-on-one with some of the players. During a conversation with Robert Griffin III, Wetzel said the quarterback told him that every time he looks at the image on his helmet it fires him up, and that he was glad to now know where it came from.

 

In a 2002 interview with The Washington Post, Blackie Wetzel said he had taken pictures of Indians in full headdress to the Redskins’ office and told officials he’d like to see one on the helmet. Within weeks, the new logo was chosen and appeared on helmets in 1972. “It made us all so proud to have an Indian on a big-time team,” he said at the time. “It’s only a small group of radicals who oppose those names. Indians are proud of Indians.”

 

Donald Wetzel, who was a star basketball player in college and later served as an educator and a superintendent, said Native Americans remain proud of the logo to this day.

 

“I’ve never heard anything negative about the logo or the name from the tribal members I have run into,” said Wetzel, who lives in Montana. When he used to play sports, one nickname did bother him, he said. “If they called me ‘Chief,’ now that got to me. But if they had said ‘Redskin,’ I would have said, ‘You’re damn right.’ ”

 

 

And the end of the article...really touching:

 

"The one thing Wetzel said is not debatable: His father would have wanted him to visit the team, one he remained loyal to until his death in 2003.

 

A year earlier, the two were watching television when the Redskins came on the screen. Wetzel said his father’s voice was faint, but he could hear him say, “They still have that on their helmets.”

 

 

You'd like to think that would trump any and all asinine comments about the helmet emblem being an "offensive caricature".

Edited by Califan007
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As a NA myself...

 

That is more understandable.

 

Don't get me wrong we enjoy it as a family day, and eat...but it is not something that we celebrate or decorate for.

I love Turkey day as much as anybody, but the notion of the first Thanksgiving is pretty laughable. There's no reason to involve Natives in that story other than the romantic element.

 

I remember reenacting the first feast in elementary school. We made Native headdresses and pilgrim hats out of construction paper. The Native characters paraded around the room, patting our palms to our lips to make 'Indian' chants. This was in the 80s. 

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Dan Stewart @thatdanstewart  ·  Oct 7
The Washington Redskins are to change their name, due to negative associations. From now on, they will be known as the "Maryland Redskins"

 

 

As the 50th person to make that joke on this thread, you have won a gift certificate for a free oil change from Jiffy Lube. Congratulations.

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Redskins easily have the most classiest Native American logo in sports, EASILY. Hell I want to say in sports in general.

 

In the article, when he said that "it got to him" when they called him Chief, but said "you damn right!" when they called him Redskin,

 

Powerful... Bet you they won't publish that article over the masses.

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......

 

You'd like to think that would trump any and all asinine comments about the helmet emblem being an "offensive caricature".

 

edit::: actually... i don't think i have anyone ever say that they thought the Redskins logo was an "offensive caricature".  Has anyone?   --- if they have.. chalk that up to people on whatever side of an issue screaming until they get blue in teh face... and getting less persuasive the louder they get.  

------------------------------------------------------

 

but the story certainly a nice positive, and one that gets ignored far too much by the "kill the name" crowd... but it is just as wrong to pretend that this is how everyone feels as it is wrong to broadly apply the view of the person who is really offended by the name.

 

 

the simple fact is, that this question isn't easy... because people GENUINELY disagree.  

 

I hate to resort to circular logic, but i think it applies here:  

  1. if the redskins name/logo was half as offensive as the name-haters imply, then the name would've been changed looong ago.   
  2. if the name/logo was half as benign as most of the defenders imply, then there really wouldn't be a debate going now.

 

the name has some proud history, and proud imagery.. and it has some unfortunate connections.   both sides are right, just not nearly as much as they think they are as they scream and have hissy fits.     

...

 

Powerful... Bet you they won't publish that article over the masses.

 

yes i expect the black helicopters are swooping in and obliterating all traces of that story even as we speak... 

Edited by mcsluggo

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edit::: actually... i don't think i have anyone ever say that they thought the Redskins logo was an "offensive caricature".  Has anyone?   --- if they have.. chalk that up to people on whatever side of an issue screaming until they get blue in teh face... and getting less persuasive the louder they get. 

 

I hear/read it all the time. The emblem has been characterized as "racist", "caricature", "offensive", "a stereotype", and even "cartoonish" lol (seriously).

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I hear/read it all the time. The emblem has been characterized as "racist", "caricature", "offensive", "a stereotype", and even "cartoonish" lol (seriously).

 

edit::: actually... i don't think i have anyone ever say that they thought the Redskins logo was an "offensive caricature".  Has anyone?   --- if they have.. chalk that up to people on whatever side of an issue screaming until they get blue in teh face... and getting less persuasive the louder they get.  

------------------------------------------------------

 

but the story certainly a nice positive, and one that gets ignored far too much by the "kill the name" crowd... but it is just as wrong to pretend that this is how everyone feels as it is wrong to broadly apply the view of the person who is really offended by the name.

 

 

the simple fact is, that this question isn't easy... because people GENUINELY disagree.  

 

I hate to resort to circular logic, but i think it applies here:  

  1. if the redskins name/logo was half as offensive as the name-haters imply, then the name would've been changed looong ago.   
  2. if the name/logo was half as benign as most of the defenders imply, then there really wouldn't be a debate going now.

 

the name has some proud history, and proud imagery.. and it has some unfortunate connections.   both sides are right, just not nearly as much as they think they are as they scream and have hissy fits.     

 

yes i expect the black helicopters are swooping in and obliterating all traces of that story even as we speak... 

 

I was debating with one name changer on the Twitter who claims the logo is a severed head. I was like okay, we're done here.

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I hear/read it all the time. The emblem has been characterized as "racist", "caricature", "offensive", "a stereotype", and even "cartoonish" lol (seriously).

 

Are you kidding me? Evidently, the depiction of a man of another race is offensive in and of itself. OK.

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One thing that scares me is the current playbook of the change the name crowd.

 

Instead of attacking the Redskins or Snyder they have changed gears to attacking/discrediting those that support the name.  

 

I worry this MO will discourage people from speaking out in favor of the name more and more.

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One thing that scares me is the current playbook of the change the name crowd.

Instead of attacking the Redskins or Snyder they have changed gears to attacking/discrediting those that support the name.

I worry this MO will discourage people from speaking out in favor of the name more and more.

Yeah, good thing nobody here has been attacking Harjo or Hallbritter. :)

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Are you kidding me? Evidently, the depiction of a man of another race is offensive in and of itself. OK.

Go back a hundred or so pages and you can see where i was told that everyone better stay in their place.

if you're white, you can only draw or wear the clothing of whites.

 

 

It's outrageous, and unfortunately, for some it seems to be standard thinking.

Now, we've heard this sort of thinking before...

 

 

~Bang

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Yeah, good thing nobody here has been attacking Harjo or Hallbritter. :)

Not nationally. We read about it and understand it because we are involved. When was the last time you saw a piece on Harjo or Hallbritter on multiple major outlets at the same time. Sure you see one or two here or there, but nothing like what you see on our end.

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Yeah, good thing nobody here has been attacking Harjo or Hallbritter. :)

 

That is not really what he meant...I don't think. That's not the way I read it at least.

 

As a reponse to him however, most NAs do not have the finances or connections to fight this without coming off in a negative light from the very few they would be up against along with the mis-informed.

 

For example, My cousin is full blooded NA...he thinks this whole thing is a bunch of crap. However he gets benefits for his family...he is afraid of losing that. He can not afford to force a lawsuit (in his mind).

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The support for the Redskins name is still very strong. Don't let UnWise Mike tell you otherwise, that dude is full of baloney.

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