The Official ES All Things Redskins Name Change Thread (Reboot Edition---Read New OP)

[Boss_Hogg]

Not sure if it was already posted, but it looks like we might have some company. 

 

Plaintiff in Redskins patent case urges Chiefs to change their name

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/06/26/plaintiff-in-redskins-patent-case-urges-chiefs-to-change-their-name/

 

Wow, this is insane.

I am just surprised there are enough people still in Detroit that are willing to buy and read a newspaper

 

After all, they lack the basic necessities such as water.

 

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2014/06/23/detroit_shuts_off_water_for_residents_united_nations_asked_to_help.html

[Fan since a Fetus]

Wow, this is insane.

I don't think the Chiefs have anything to worry about for a few reasons.

1) they don't have a local newspaper that despises them.

2) They don't have a name that can easily be qualified as racial just by looking at it

3) People won't take up the cause because of the dictionary definition. The writer is already justifying Chief in that article citing the dictionary.

Edit: One funny post at the bottom said 'Well I've always known them as the Chefs'

[GibbsFactor]

Scott Allen ‏@ScottSAllen  40m

Redskins hire former 'Not Larry Sabato' blogger Ben Tribbett to help guide defense of team name http://wapo.st/1iyXcql 

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Good Lord.....what is the current staffing budget for defending the name? How many people have they hired for this purpose over the last two years?

[RedskinsFan44]

Good Lord.....what is the current staffing budget for defending the name? How many people have they hired for this purpose over the last two years?

And what have they done?

[War Paint]

I don't think the Chiefs have anything to worry about for a few reasons.

1) they don't have a local newspaper that despises them.

2) They don't have a name that can easily be qualified as racial just by looking at it

3) People won't take up the cause because of the dictionary definition. The writer is already justifying Chief in that article citing the dictionary.

Edit: One funny post at the bottom said 'Well I've always known them as the Chefs'

I don't know.  I went over to the Chiefs board and it sounds like it is over here.  They were talking about protests that have occurred throughout the years in regards to their name.  I had no idea that the Chiefs over the years were having to deal with the same kind of stuff.  There's no doubt about it, if we go down, they will too.  In fact, I won't be surprised if they start getting more heat than we do if it looks like Snyder doesn't fold.  If Snyder folds, then everything else will fall like dominoes.  

[jaybrant]

I mentioned the 2004 90% poll to a co-worker (Cowboys fan) who was talking about our "racist name" when he came across an article online. He was basically trying to say that the majority of Native American's found the name offensive and that it should be changed today, if that was the case.

He came back at me with this gem:

"So if just a small group of blacks disagreed with slavery back in the day. Or if it was just a small group of women who wanted to vote. Or even just a small group of gay's that wanted to get married. Those things shouldn't have changed right?"

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I don't know.  I went over to the Chiefs board and it sounds like it is over here.  They were talking about protests that have occurred throughout the years in regards to their name. 

 

Impossible. This is all UnWise Mike's fault and it started just a few years ago.

[SoulSkin]

The Chiefs, and every team that has American Indian themes/imagery should be a little bit worried about it. A larger goal for many fighting the Redskins name is the removal of anything related to American Indians in sports, be it names, logos, imagery, whatever. The Chiefs have an easy out though. American Indians are not the only peoples who have had Chiefs. They may be changing that arrowhead one day though. 

 

"But the 21st century is a time when we are getting mainstream attention. We are reclaiming our voice and images.Now, we are using platforms like social media to speak out against consistent appropriation of Native Culture or to collectively oppose offensive Native American imagery."

 

http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/18/living/obama-redskins-native-american-visibility/index.html?iref=allsearch

[planter]

You could ask the same question of yourself.

I don't have to ask. The answer is nearly everybody doesn't

really care about you or me. If you're NA may get a vote. Otherwise it' s between the NAs, the NFL, and Snyder.

We're just talking heads.

[Diesel Hog]

And what have they done?

Good question.

 

Seems like they should first and foremost reach out to specific tribes and find out which ones support or do not care about the name and go from there.

[ram29jackson]

which chiefs forums are a popular deal like this one ?

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

which chiefs forums are a popular deal like this one ?

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/bb/showthread.php?t=284628

 

Here is a long thread where they make all the same arguments made here.

 

I love the fact that the team is apparently named after a white mayor who wore a headdress to Boy Scout meetings.

 

They are very much in favor of keeping The Tomahawk Chop - a longstanding tradition dating all the way back to the mid-90s that was stolen from the Braves who stole it from FSU who invented it during The Reagan Administration.

 

If we cannot keep our stolen, 20 year old traditions, then this is not the America I grew up in.

[planter]

The Chiefs, and every team that has American Indian themes/imagery should be a little bit worried about it. A larger goal for many fighting the Redskins name is the removal of anything related to American Indians in sports, be it names, logos, imagery, whatever. The Chiefs have an easy out though. American Indians are not the only peoples who have had Chiefs. They may be changing that arrowhead one day though.

"But the 21st century is a time when we are getting mainstream attention. We are reclaiming our voice and images.Now, we are using platforms like social media to speak out against consistent appropriation of Native Culture or to collectively oppose offensive Native American imagery."

http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/18/living/obama-redskins-native-american-visibility/index.html?iref=allsearch

Perhaps a minority of NAs do oppose all NA names and logos. While the Redskins are in a grey area and "twisting in the wind" other teams, Braves, Chiefs, Vikings ,Celtics are probably secure

Lets say Skins are honored by a regional Tribe and adopt a new name. Or regional NAs select a more respectful name. But we won't be allowed to use a NA logo/fight song?

No @#$$@ way.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Perhaps a minority of NAs do oppose all NA names and logos. While the Redskins are in a grey area and "twisting in the wind" other teams, Braves, Chiefs, Vikings ,Celtics are probably secure

Lets say Skins are honored by a regional Tribe and adopt a new name. Or regional NAs select a more respectful name. But we won't be allowed to use a NA logo/fight song?

No @#$$@ way.

 

Why do people keep throwing out the Vikings and Celtics? Is there a Viking Defense League I am unaware of.

[s0crates]

Ah...so, it is in your assumption that we have our culprit. I see that your understanding is that (& I will use this example as a reflection of your intimation) Chaucer's English is, in fact, unusable. This is where we seem to have our gap, as it were.

You see...I make no such assumptions or suppositions that define from whence I am allowed to use an Englical term. Certainly, you may be willing to presume that vernacular which you proclaim to be dated should thusly no longer be used. I have no such limitations, nor do I believe that we should shy away from using those terms should they fit the bill, so to speak.

Whilst my auto correct may scoff at the varying degrees of dated dialect I choose to use on occasion, it does not deter me...nor do I believe it should deter anyone, from using language in a way that fits the context.

I also find it curious as to the portion of this discussion where you have championed the malleability of language, but not only seem to imply that change = out with the old, in with the new....but that words can only have 1 meaning at any given time.

. . . 

 

I didn't say Chaucer's English was unusable.  I asked why it sounded different than contemporary English, a question you didn't actually answer (along with any of my other questions).  I only asked that question because you said words have fixed meanings, and I am having difficulty accounting for the evolution of languages in light of this wisdom you shared with me.  Unfortunately you have left me in the dark about this and other matters.

 

I thank you for reminding me that words can have more than one definition, although I am unclear whether or not this has any bearing on your thesis that words have one fixed and correct meaning, which was the point in question.  

 

Please humor me, as I am obviously lacking the mental finesse you have, by explaining the fixed meaning of words.  Do you still maintain that the meaning of words remains constant, and that the connotation of a word does not change? If so, then where can I go to learn the fixed meaning of a term?  What book or sage should I consult to avoid further ignorance on this matter? 

 

I notice you cite the dictionary. Am I to take it that is the reference I should trust in matters of what words mean? Can I therefore consult my dictionary definition of "redskin" as the authority in the present debate? 

 

I only ask these question because I have been misled into thinking that words like "cool, "hip," and "indian" have meanings that change over time.  Where have I gone wrong?

 

I appreciate you taking the time to share your wisdom with me.

[RedskinsFan44]

Perhaps a minority of NAs do oppose all NA names and logos. While the Redskins are in a grey area and "twisting in the wind" other teams, Braves, Chiefs, Vikings ,Celtics are probably secure

Lets say Skins are honored by a regional Tribe and adopt a new name. Or regional NAs select a more respectful name. But we won't be allowed to use a NA logo/fight song?

No @#$$@ way.

Judging from the FSU Seminoles an endorsement gives you license to do just about whatever you want.

[War Paint]

Why do people keep throwing out the Vikings and Celtics? Is there a Viking Defense League I am unaware of.

If these activists have success and are empowered, it won't be long until another group of a different creed follow the exact same blueprint.

[ram29jackson]

ESCORT use to be a nice, polite word

[@DCGoldPants]

Knew the Chiefs were going to get dinged. Just not this soon.

 

Why aren't these people going to the High Schools and explaining to the Native Americans who choose the name for themselves, that they are offending themselves?

 

Amanda Blackhorse and her group will go to the Indians, Braves, and Blackhawks news. Then I can't care if the Seminoles have a deal with the Florida Tribe. They'll still claim to be offended. Get some Oklahoma Seminoles to agree while the majority doesn't care. 

 

Its happening.

[Commander PK]

Do you really believe the OED is involved in some conspiracy to bring down the Washington Redskins? 

 

Not necessarily a conspiracy.  I would just like to know what they used as evidence that the name is a slur.  Seems to me that any "slur" could just be a racial descriptor in disguise if you look a little deeper.  

 

I also think that if you allow a minority to force a name change on a business with the kind of tactics they are using...that sets a precedent that could be used for just about anything.    

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

Why do people keep throwing out the Vikings and Celtics? Is there a Viking Defense League I am unaware of.

Yes.

http://www.vikingdefenceleague.dk/

[Fan since a Fetus]

I had no idea that the Chiefs over the years were having to deal with the same kind of stuff.  There's no doubt about it, if we go down, they will too.  In fact, I won't be surprised if they start getting more heat than we do if it looks like Snyder doesn't fold.  If Snyder folds, then everything else will fall like dominoes.

I didn't realize they already had problems over there.

 

 

Impossible. This is all UnWise Mike's fault and it started just a few years ago.

I know you are replying to War Paint who was replying to my post, but I wasn't implying that this is all the Washington journalists fault. I was implying that it doesn't help when you make enemies and those enemies gang up on you. That is all. I don't think Chiefs have a squabble with their local paper, although I could be wrong.

I know this all didn't start a few years ago, I had a family member work closely with JKC for years and am totally aware that this did not just start.

[Smurf85]

Wow, this is insane.

After all, they lack the basic necessities such as water.

Yeah DC is so much better.

[grego]

Perhaps a minority of NAs do oppose all NA names and logos. While the Redskins are in a grey area and "twisting in the wind" other teams, Braves, Chiefs, Vikings ,Celtics are probably secure

 

 

 

a 'small minority' of NAs oppose 'redskins'- why should the braves or chiefs (or indians) feel secure based on that fact?

 

Lets say Skins are honored by a regional Tribe and adopt a new name. Or regional NAs select a more respectful name. But we won't be allowed to use a NA logo/fight song?

 

 

 

i do like that idea more than probably any other.

 

its interesting though, cuz since alot of folks dont seem to realize that NA's are not of one voice on this issue, there will still be the amanda blackhorses of the world that appoint themselves as speakers and representatives of the group.