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The Official ES All Things Redskins Name Change Thread (Reboot Edition---Read New OP)


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And none of them still bother to care what the actual natives think or want.

Doesn't history already say something about that?

Lecturing what history will remember when they won't even bother to learn the lesson of today....The hubris of ignorance is astounding.

~Bang

Edited by Bang
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I do wonder if that's why the media seems to be unanimously afraid to mention some actual facts about the issue, though.  (Like the Annenberg poll). 

 

If you're in the media, then you're in a job where being labeled a racist, whether it's true or not, will affect your income for the rest of your life. 

 

They may not know whether the name is racist or not.  But they sure do know which opinion will get them more money, over the course of their career. 

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Gregg Doyel throws in his two cents following the (brief) comments of Art Monk and D. Green on WTOP yesterday.

 

 

http://www.cbssports.com/general/blog/gregg-doyel/22871609/only-one-right-side-to-redskins-debate-and-history-will-remember

 

 

Wonder what the writer of that article thinks about these latest comments from Green? 

 

In no way I want to see the Redskins change their name,” Green told 106.7 The Fan. “So that just makes that clear. And I’ll speak for Art, there’s no way he wants it, and I guarantee he didn’t say it, and I know I didn’t say it. .

.

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/07/24/darrell-green-wants-no-part-of-name-change/#comments

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Wonder what the writer of that article thinks about these latest comments from Green? 

 

In no way I want to see the Redskins change their name,” Green told 106.7 The Fan. “So that just makes that clear. And I’ll speak for Art, there’s no way he wants it, and I guarantee he didn’t say it, and I know I didn’t say it. .

.

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/07/24/darrell-green-wants-no-part-of-name-change/#comments

Doyel is probably licking his chops now that DG just threw him a bone.

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I dont think it's that big of a deal.  Keep the colors and the uni and embrace our championship past and...

 

I'm good. Warriors, Avengers, RedDevils, Revolution, etc.  As long as that B&G is droppin TDs on Dallas.

Edited by mboyd784
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Funny, neither Monk nor Green actually said they wanted the name changed just that if Native Americans are offended then there should be a discussion. Their words were taken way out of context to suit an agenda. Doyel is just another who would rather say what is offensive to another group than actually find out. 90% of Native Americans don't take issue with the name, so claiming offense for them is bogus and ignorant.

 

Your shtick is getting old RFKFedEx. Is it right for non-Native Americans to say the name is offensive when the majority of Native Americans disagree? No, it's not. 

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Just bought a copy of this year's "Fantasy Football Index."  This magazine has team reports, with the teams listed in alphabetical order using the full name of each team, from "Arizona Cardinals" to "Tennessee Titans."  That is until you get to the Redskins team report, where the heading simply says, "Washington."  Upon further examination, I found that the word "Redskins" never appears in the magazine.

 

 

I think you should send it back to them and ask for a refund. 

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Wow, Doyle is a piece of work on his moral high horse.  Isn't it nice that anyone with a keyboard can't just throw around the word "Racist" to everyone and not know anything of that person?  I'd like to see someone put a foot in Doyle's ass.  He reminds me of someone that you would engage in a debate and he'd put his hands on his ears and start shouting, "la, la, la...racist, la, la, la..racist."  Seriously, he sounds so juvenile, he makes the 30 year old "I want to go to the Lake woman," sound mature. Good to know people like him can stand the nosebleeds from their mountain top.  What a jerk.

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mboyd784, on 24 Jul 2013 - 23:21, said:

I dont think it's that big of a deal. Keep the colors and the uni and embrace our championship past and...

I'm good. Warriors, Avengers, RedDevils, Revolution, etc. As long as that B&G is droppin TDs on Dallas.

Nope, change the name and they have no right to embrace the Championship past, as they they will have no past to embrace. Just like the Wizards have no standing in trying to claim any achievments by the Bullets.

Edited by nonniey
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Nope, change the name and they have no right to embrace the Championship past, as they they will have no past to embrace. Just like the Wizards have no standing in trying to claim any achievments by the Bullets.

 

I don't want the name changed either, but are you sure about that standing issue? 

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What I find so stupid about this is no one is going to stop wearing there redskins gear if they do change the name. I'm certainly going to continue wearing the stuff I own. Will that make all of us racists who choose to continue wearing the name?

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I don't want the name changed either, but are you sure about that standing issue?

Do you really want to know whether he's sure? Or is whether he's right, more important? :)

Last I heard, the Redskins were claiming to be 80 years old, despite the fact that 80 years ago, the team was called the Boston Braves.

Perhaps someone should tell them that they aren't allowed to do that, because the team's name changed.

What I find so stupid about this is no one is going to stop wearing there redskins gear if they do change the name. I'm certainly going to continue wearing the stuff I own. Will that make all of us racists who choose to continue wearing the name?

Nah, you're already a racist.

According to some people who appear to be sadly uninformed.

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mboyd784, on 24 Jul 2013 - 23:21, said:

I dont think it's that big of a deal. Keep the colors and the uni and embrace our championship past and...

I'm good. Warriors, Avengers, RedDevils, Revolution, etc. As long as that B&G is droppin TDs on Dallas.

Nope, change the name and they have no right to embrace the Championship past, as they they will have no past to embrace. Just like the Wizards have no standing in trying to claim any achievments by the Bullets.

Erm... is this some form of sarcasm that went completely over my head?

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Hubbs, on 25 Jul 2013 - 15:48, said:

nonniey, on 25 Jul 2013 - 14:03, said:

mboyd784, on 24 Jul 2013 - 23:21, said:

mboyd784, on 24 Jul 2013 - 23:21, said:

I dont think it's that big of a deal. Keep the colors and the uni and embrace our championship past and...

I'm good. Warriors, Avengers, RedDevils, Revolution, etc. As long as that B&G is droppin TDs on Dallas.

Nope, change the name and they have no right to embrace the Championship past, as they they will have no past to embrace. Just like the Wizards have no standing in trying to claim any achievments by the Bullets.
Erm... is this some form of sarcasm that went completely over my head?
Have the Wizards won a championship???? Do people say remember when the Wizards won in 1978??? Generally people don't recognize that as a Wizard championship. When you change the name there is a break and the same would happen if the Redskins changed their name. Those championships would always be Redskin Championships not the Washington what-not championships and many probably most wouldn't recognize them as what-not championships, just as most consider the Wizards to have never won a championship.
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I had another Twitter sparing session with UnWise Mike and one his cronies yesterday.  Wise claims that the 2004 Annenberg poll shouldn't matter in the debate because the man who operated the poll has an opinion that if 10% are offended then the name should change anyway.

 

Forget the fact that 90% Native Americans were accepting of the name and some were fans of the team.

 

You cant please everyone. There's not one single thing on this planet that doesn't offend someone. If Wise can show PROOF that a majority of tribal leaders stand up & say they're offended, then it should be considered. But a bunch of non Indians and vote chasing congressmen do not speak for the Native American tribes.

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A couple of analogies I heard recently on the radio, just wanted put them out there and shoot them down:

 

(1) Kornheiser (who doesn't tend to think much anymore, if you haven't noticed) responds to the polling numbers by saying that all social justice issues start somewhere. He draws an analogy to gay marriage rights, saying that if you polled the public in 1960 on the question, 90% of Americans would have been against it.  But it was still a valid cause (not making any arguments on the issue here) in 1960, it just took another 50 years for the public to see the error of its ways.  He then goes on to say that the gay marriage issue can be compared to the name change issue, so let's get out in front of it now.

 

Well, here's the thing....  If you polled "gay" couples in 1960 and asked them the question, i'd be willing to bet that 90% of those individuals would be in favor of gay marriage (TK is speculating on numbers, so I can too). Therefore, the affected demographic, which is what matters most on these issues, was "offended" or felt that it was denied a right in 1960.

 

Now, in 2013, native americans have been asked whether the term "Redskins" is offensive, and the vast majority indicate "no."  So there's the difference, and all that really should matter at this point, in my opinion.

 

(2) Forget the commentator, but he argued that if you walked into a bar room (if they have them) on an indian reservation and went up to one of the locals and said "how's it going, Redskin??" you'd get your *** ass kicked.

 

Of course, if someone came up to me at a bar who didn't know me and said, "how's it going, Caucasian?" or "Anglo-American" I'd probably throw my beer in his face.  Context matters, of course, because no one would ever use the term Redskin in that fashion.  But don't let common sense get in your way.

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This is what that ass Wise wrote:

 

"The other day, a friend mentioned that Harjo had first filed suit for trademark infringement in 1992, the year of the team’s last Super Bowl victory. The Redskins have won nothing of merit since. They have three playoff victories in the past 21 years. Snyder’s tenure has mostly been forgettable. And whenever momentum builds and the future seems bright, like last year with Griffin, it’s always ripped heartlessly away in some fashion.

 

Until this organization does right by Harjo and her people, I wouldn’t be surprised if bad karma follows. “Please don’t call this the Harjo Curse,” she begged me after Thursday’s hearing. “Oh, don’t do that to me.” No? Okay. I like this better anyway: The Curse of the Code Talker’s Daughter.

 

Until it is broken, until the name is changed, this town never sees another Lombardi Trophy."

 

I saved this line for when the Skins are hoisting the trophy in a few years,

Edited by Boss_Hogg
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I had another Twitter sparing session with UnWise Mike and one his cronies yesterday.  Wise claims that the 2004 Annenberg poll shouldn't matter in the debate because the man who operated the poll has an opinion that if 10% are offended then the name should change anyway.

 

Forget the fact that 90% Native Americans were accepting of the name and some were fans of the team.

 

You cant please everyone. There's not one single thing on this planet that doesn't offend someone. If Wise can show PROOF that a majority of tribal leaders stand up & say they're offended, then it should be considered. But a bunch of non Indians and vote chasing congressmen do not speak for the Native American tribes.

 

this is what i've always contended- what is the #? that is, what is the number of native americans who you think need to be offended in order to call for a change. like you said, you can find someone who is offended by anything. and because youre dealing with 1) feelings, 2) race (specifically, a race that is seen as abused my the majority,) its easier to not ask why someone is offended and just say 'no problem- if youre offended, lets change it'.

 

i, for one, think 10% claiming to be offended is too low. and it doesnt help that so many native americans feel the exact opposite and embrace the name. opinion is all over the place with native americans, but mostly, they dont appear to care one way or another. i just dont know how you criticize the football team under these known circumstances. 

 

so if UnWise Mike (or anyone) thinks 10% being offended means you change it, i think thats a bit nuts. 

Edited by grego
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I had another Twitter sparing session with UnWise Mike and one his cronies yesterday.  Wise claims that the 2004 Annenberg poll shouldn't matter in the debate because the man who operated the poll has an opinion that if 10% are offended then the name should change anyway.

 

Forget the fact that 90% Native Americans were accepting of the name and some were fans of the team.

 

You cant please everyone. There's not one single thing on this planet that doesn't offend someone. If Wise can show PROOF that a majority of tribal leaders stand up & say they're offended, then it should be considered. But a bunch of non Indians and vote chasing congressmen do not speak for the Native American tribes.

 

 

 

so if UnWise Mike (or anyone) thinks 10% being offended means you change it, i think thats a bit nuts. 

Here's the thing-- Wise doesn't strike me as the most honest guy in the world. I suspect he realizes the absurdity of his position, but just doesn't really have much to write about these days.  Guy's career is going down the tubes, so now he's trying to stay relevant.  Sort of desperate tone in his writing lately.

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Try to keep kicking up dust so that Snyder throws his hands up in the air and says " I've had enough ! "

 

 

It's the only tactic that they feel they have left, since all of their other attempts have been spectacular failures.

 

 

It's become an exercise in doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting a different result.

 

 

 

Wishing that Goodell would do something. - Not happening.

 

Trying to get a majority of Native Americans to see things their way. - Not happening.

 

Trying to get a majority of Redskins fans to see things their way. Not happening. 

 

Trying to get a majority of NFL fans to agree with them. - No dice.

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I thought that read zone article (about the deadspin peice on 28 and 81) was spot on. (I'd link it but I'm on my ipone and I suck at using it)

It discusses the meaning of the word, the nuttiness of people screaming "it's a slur!" Rather than saying "some think its a slur, most absolutely do not", and the bizarre insistance of dead spin to interpret (incorrectly) what 28 and 81 actually said.

Nice to see an objective (I think) source talking sense about the subject.

Refreshing. Almost gives me hope.

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As I've said before on the issue, this is nothing more than every two-bit sports writer trying to be the next Shirley Povich (even if they don't realize it). 

 

Unfortunately, despite every poll taken that shows American Indians do not find the name derogatory, this will continue until the name is changed. Furthermore, I doubt the team will ever be allowed to return to Washington, D.C. until the name is changed since the D.C. City Council in its infinite wisdom is standing with everyone clamoring to change the name.

 

My suggestion? Change the name back to the Braves, keep the fight song and don't display the lyrics on the screen since they include that "awful" and "offensive" name. Keep the logo, the colors and the history.  

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