Jump to content
Washington Football Team Logo
Extremeskins

The Official ES All Things Redskins Name Change Thread (Reboot Edition---Read New OP)


Recommended Posts

You can make a joke out of it, but nobody still has answered the question of why would a Native American school name themselves the Redskins if it was offensive. Let alone three of them...

 

I've asked the same question and was met with a response of 'you hear black people calling either the N word, but no sane person would argue that that's grounds for naming a football the 'n***rs'

 

edit: filter didn't censor the n word? weird...

Edited by RVAbrendan
Link to post
Share on other sites

I think both sides are entirely too hung up on the notion of "intent."

 

The pro-name side is digging up the history of the name as propping up the corpse of Lone Star Dietz is really that important in the grand scheme of things.

 

The anti-name side is making too many assumptions about why the name exists.

 

I find the intent to be almost totally irrelevent.

 

The questions I continually come back is Why is Native American imagery so prevalent in sports, is that still proper, and is there a balance that can be struck?

 

People love to trot out the Aunt Jemimas and Uncle Bens of the world in this discussion, and I agree that those are troubling logos. But it is not something that you are constantly exposed to - unless you really really love pancakes and are lazy, I suppose. Every major North American sport has at least one team with a Native-related nickname. The NFL has two. MLB has two. It's still prevalent in college sports - though that is obviously fading away some. It's something a person encounters daily in the sports world. I find that odd from my perspective in the 21st century.

 

So...what to do?

 

I honestly don't know. I think doing nothing is odd. I think demanding across the board change is draconian. And that always leads me back to the Redskins, Chief Wahoo, and whatever weird **** the Braves marketing department has worked up that week.

 

i am honstly just tired of BOTH sides of this debate.

 

the more (*just about anybody*) advocates hard for either side... the more i want to flip to the other side.   The truly engaged minority on both sides of this issue are becoming irritating frothing wild-eyed detriments to their own causes

Link to post
Share on other sites

I've asked the same question and was met with a response of 'you hear black people calling either the N word, but no sane person would argue that that's grounds for naming a football the 'n***rs'

 

edit: filter didn't censor the n word? weird...

 

 

Ever hear of the Zulu Cannibal Giants? That was a minor Negro League team that was something like a baseball version of the Globetrotters.

 

Does their existence prove that black people are okay with playing baseball barefoot while wearing war paint?

i am honstly just tired of BOTH sides of this debate.

 

the more (*just about anybody*) advocates hard for either side... the more i want to flip to the other side.   The truly engaged minority on both sides of this issue are becoming irritating frothing wild-eyed detriments to their own causes

 

I think it's an interesting prism of how people view the world.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Why would black actors appear in Amos 'n Andy?

 

 

The US Government had an Operation Wetback in 1954 (a project that was for the mass deportation of illegal Mexican immigrants).

 

Do you think since they used it before, the US Government could have another operation called Operation Wetback today? 

 

Of course not. The term's acceptance has changed. 

 

 

 

The argument is essentially that it is a dated and offensive term. I say this because the Oxford English Dictionary calls it a "dated and offensive term."

 

Definition of redskin in English:

 

redskin

Syllabification: red·skin

Pronunciation: /ˈredˌskin
 
/

 

noun dated or offensive
  • An American Indian.

 

I had long lengthy replies to these posts. But I just can't anymore. This debate is making me think too much. I am on Summer Break, I should not be doing any research for something that I am not getting credits towards graduating.

 

Now the hardest thing to do is to stay out of this thread for good this time and not let my pride get the best of me. lol

Link to post
Share on other sites

I would suggest etymology of the word has little to do with how it's used/thought of now. Much like the aforementioned terms fag or colored, words change in meaning and appropriateness over time. 

 

Unfortunately for most of us, the term redskin has fallen out of the realm of appropriateness. 

 

 

two things i'd take issue with -

 

the etymology is important when those asking for a name change keep repeating that the origin of the word refers to scalping. its the very source of every native american activists argument.

 

now, can words change over time? of course. so, what has the word changed into? well, that would be the name of a football team. 

 

this issue has always been "does the words use by a few ignorant people as a slur (insert other examples of otherwise benign words used as slurs here) call for the team to change the name".

 

again, its hard for many people to accept that the word has morphed into something innappropriate when the data suggests- as does the use of the term as native american schools mascot- otherwise. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

You can make a joke out of it, but nobody still has answered the question of why would a Native American school name themselves the Redskins if it was offensive. Let alone three of them...

 

Because they don't find it offensive.  But plenty others do.  Get it?

Link to post
Share on other sites

So, should I be offended by this? I do have a lot of Irish in me btw.

 

lucky_figure_300437.png

 

this is when it gets stupid.   Nobody is arguing about what SHOULD be offensive, or should not.    But rather about what IS offensive.  Show me someone that is Irish and is (seriously) claiming to be offended , and then we can talk.   Its not that complicated.

 

the word "n-word" didn't start out offensive.... it just got there.   

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

To be honest though, I have been avoiding this topic of a while. What are the odds there are a change?

 

at this point, i would guess it is at least 90% that it will change.   

 

 

 

(a figure that i researched with tireless scientific rigor!) 

Edited by mcsluggo
Link to post
Share on other sites

I feel you Monk4thaHALL,

 

I do not want Warriors at ALL...thinking about it makes me sick.lol

 

 

IF we were to change it, which I doubt we will and think we'll beat this; I prefer the following.

 

 

Washington Warhawks - DC historical context to the War of 1812, plus the aircraftw/ the Shark teeth would be a dope intense look

 

Washington Redhawks - Chief Red Hawk reference

 

Washington RedHogs - 'Hogs for short, homage the well, y'all know.lol

 

Washington WarHogs - see above

 

Washington Skins - Ehhh, not bad

 

Washington Braves - safest choice

 

Washington Natives - also safest choice

 

Washington Warpaths - another good choice where we keep our fight song. I'm still saying Redskins regardless.lol

 

 

These are the only ones I'll accept, that's IF we do change it. As far as I'm concerned, it's Redskins for life. Whether we change it or not, and those opposing the name will see that. This isn't the same scenario w/ the Bullets/Wizards ordeal, this is one of the major sports franchises in the WORLD with a die hard fanbase, so just taking the name away won't change much because people will continue to wear their REDSKINS gear out of spite, and it will continue to happen.

Link to post
Share on other sites

at this point, i would guess it is at least 90% that it will change.   

100 percent.

 

Just a matter of when.

 

Hey... Warpaths.  That's pretty good, Gizmo.

Edited by Hooper
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

If you do a search on the net...use the phrase...."origin of the name "redskins" "you will find some interesting info....It is worth doing...

If you call the team, "the Washington Brave" the word fits in to the fight song....and lots of positive art can go along...any good logo would work...:)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Because they don't find it offensive.  But plenty others do.  Get it?

 

 

mboyd- first off, i agree with you here. those high schools dont find it offensive, but some other native americans do.

 

so, where does that leave us? what percentage needs to be offended? (i dont know that theres a right answer, just wondering what you would say_

 

even so, while you and i understand that there seems to be quite a few native americans who embrace the term, why does it seem like their voice is not being hear? we have the seattle times, myriad sports writers, you name it- all saying they wont use the terms cuz its 'derogatory'.

 

isnt the issue far more complicated? doesnt the one sided coverage of this debate bother you?

 

just curious how you see it.

If you do a search on the net...use the phrase...."origin of the name "redskins" "you will find some interesting info....It is worth doing...

 

 

 

could you elaborate?

Link to post
Share on other sites

I've asked the same question and was met with a response of 'you hear black people calling either the N word, but no sane person would argue that that's grounds for naming a football the 'n***rs'

 

edit: filter didn't censor the n word? weird...

 

Then tell them they should support having that word's usage removed from all rap albums and the trademarks removed from artists who use it to make a profit. 

 

If they support the idea of forcing a name change because a word is a slur, then they should support that in all facets.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

The US Government had an Operation Wetback in 1954 (a project that was for the mass deportation of illegal Mexican immigrants).

Do you think since they used it before, the US Government could have another operation called Operation Wetback today?

Of course not. The term's acceptance has changed.

The problem is its acceptance is trying to be changed by a very small portion of NAs and some rich politicians that clearly don't have anything better to do with their time. There is nothing wrong with our name.

Because they don't find it offensive. But plenty others do. Get it?

Who are plenty of others? Some members of the 1%, a few NA tribes and a bunch of knuckle head followers who believe what they are told? The vast majority of people couldn't care less about the name. Edited by Zazzaro703
  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem is its acceptance is trying to be changed by a very small portion of NAs and some rich politicians that clearly don't have anything better to do with their time. There is nothing wrong with our name.

 

Thing is, those politicians have turned it into a left vs. right issue, so I'm wondering how long before Snyder gets his rich buddies on that side of the aisle involved.

 

I do think a media campaign actually showing the many Native Americans in support of the team and name would go a long ways in showing the idiots assuming racism that such a belief is not shared by most Native Americans.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Hooper, :)

 

Warpath is also a Marvel character too, who happens to be Native American.lol the irony.

 

But yea, I agree, it's sadly only a matter of time. And slowly but surely, they might as well just change it so the naysayers can stfu about it and leave our team alone. It's mentally exhausting constantly seeing this brought up every 5 years.lol

Link to post
Share on other sites

This isn't offensive because there is a little tiny high school on an indian reservation in the middle of nowhere that says it isn't.

No, there is not.  And I doubt you could find 10 AAs who would say it is not offensive, or a substantial number of white people.

Link to post
Share on other sites

this is when it gets stupid.   Nobody is arguing about what SHOULD be offensive, or should not.    But rather about what IS offensive.  Show me someone that is Irish and is (seriously) claiming to be offended , and then we can talk.   Its not that complicated.

 

the word "n-word" didn't start out offensive.... it just got there.   

Ummm, I'm pretty sure "n-word" was always offensive.  You're right though.  It is stupid.  This whole thing is stupid.  I'm pretty sure there is an Irish liberal out there somewhere who finds it offensive.  Every race and creed have whiners.

Edited by War Paint
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Thing is, those politicians have turned it into a left vs. right issue, so I'm wondering how long before Snyder gets his rich buddies on that side of the aisle involved.

 

I do think a media campaign actually showing the many Native Americans in support of the team and name would go a long ways in showing the idiots assuming racism that such a belief is not shared by most Native Americans.

I think getting some sort of endorsement from the NA community is the only way the name lasts long term.  The leaders of the campaign against the name would love to see the UFL Seminoles eliminated, but they give them a pass because the Seminole tribe endorsed.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Then tell them they should support having that word's usage removed from all rap albums and the trademarks removed from artists who use it to make a profit. 

 

If they support the idea of forcing a name change because a word is a slur, then they should support that in all facets.

 

I would imagine the response to that would be that the N word isn't a brand...or that artists don't have that word trademarked. Or in other words, they aren't making money off of the N word. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Jumbo changed the title to The Official ES All Things Redskins Name Change Thread (Reboot Edition---Read New OP)
  • Jumbo locked this topic
  • Jumbo unlocked this topic
  • Jumbo pinned this topic
  • Jumbo featured and unfeatured this topic
  • Jumbo locked and unlocked this topic
  • Jumbo locked and unpinned this topic
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...