NFL.com: Cowboys didn't know Josh Brent would be on sidelines

[Mr. Sinister]

the first post on Josh Brent Sunday was calling the Cowboys a classless organization and this is the type of stuff you expect, so miss me with that.

But wait, didn't you say that it seems that a lot of people are criticizing the Cowboys just because of their hatred of them? Would it be fair for me to lump that in there with all of the rest of the "Cowboy hating" going on, or does that just apply to everyone else but you?

well he didnt deserve to die, but he is not innocent in this. If you get in the car with someone who is drunk then you have also made a bad mistake. Nowhere near bad enough to die or get seriously injured, but he made a terrible mistake.

That's a great way of thinking this through. Yes, he made a mistake. He WAS innocent. He wasn't the one driving drunk, Brent was. He was probably blitzed as well, and probably didn't even realize that Brent had been drinking a ton. The bottom line is that he wasn't the one who chose to drive drunk. He had terrible judgment and it cost him his life. I wouldn't go so far as to say he's "Not innocent." Not even close.

Its completely different from someone who decided to goto Wawa to buy a sandiwch for his pregnant wife and was unfortunately killed by a drunk driver. Thats not to say that I have no sympathy for him and his family, I have a lot of sympathy for Brown and his family, but that cant be ignored. Not everything is black and white in these situations as a bunch of unfortunate mistakes and errors in judgement lead to Jerry Brown dying, and Brown also made a mistake. There is noting low about it, its just just reality.

and here is the last point, I agree. Ive said this throughout, I would not have liked to see dude on the sideline. I think it was a terrible look, and the cameras are quick to jump on him to bring attention the situation.

I just dont like the media dismissing the Brown family's feelings on this.

And there's the problem with you in threads like these. You claim to feel one way, but then you unleash a fury of "But's."

" But the media said this"

"But the media portrayed him as this"

"But his mom said that"

"But he's not innocent either."

People need to be held accountable for their actions. Everyone knows how the media operates. Someone starts a fire, and they pour on the gasoline. They wouldn't have nearly the amount of ammo to to stir the pot and seel papers if stupid ass people didn't do stuff like this.

[Baylor Alum]

http://espn.go.com/dallas/nfl/story/_/id/8758149/josh-brent-dallas-cowboys-now-barred-sidelines-sources

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Where do you stand on this important issue, or maybe it is not that important to you personally. It is to me and worth the fight. The guy had a DUI in his history and yet still choose to do it again and it resulted in a death, I think that should not be mugged on national TV. If it were the Redskins I would feel the same way. I am surprised the MADD group is not going crazy over this, they normally over react for smaller issues.

Trust me, my post wasn't directed at you. I'm with you 100% on this. I've said before, there's not much in this world that I have a lower opinion of than drunk drivers. And if you know my story, you know that's saying something. I'll give a pass to anyone for a one-time mistake (we're all human) but multiple-DUI offenders? Lowest of the low in my book. It's just such an unbelievably selfish act. And it absolutely blows my mind that anyone thinks that Brent had any business being there Sunday.

[DM72]

Why are people so quick to forgive someone involved in a DWI accident? IMO, this is one crime this country needs to take much more seriously with MUCH stiffer penalties. We've had two of these cases in my neck of the of the woods and in one case the man (who also was charged with hit and run) GOT OFF. The other was an 18 year old boy who did 6 months in jail.

[AsiaticSkinsFan]

But wait, didn't you say that it seems that a lot of people are criticizing the Cowboys just because of their hatred of them? Would it be fair for me to lump that in there with all of the rest of the "Cowboy hating" going on, or does that just apply to everyone else but you?

I wasnt the one who called the Cowboys classless.

That's a great way of thinking this through. Yes, he made a mistake. He WAS innocent. He wasn't the one driving drunk, Brent was. He was probably blitzed as well, and probably didn't even realize that Brent had been drinking a ton. The bottom line is that he wasn't the one who chose to drive drunk. He had terrible judgment and it cost him his life. I wouldn't go so far as to say he's "Not innocent." Not even close.

if you get in a car with a drunk driver then you understand the potential consequences. He is not wholly responsible for this, but the guy is not innocent either. And since they were best friends, and Brent had a drunk driving charge in the past, I dont think its a stretch to suggest that Brown got in the car with a drunk Brent before. The fact that he was "probably blitzed as well probably didnt even realize Brent had been drinking a ton" is not an excuse, in fact that makes his lapse of judgement even greater. Brown got in a car with a guy who was drunk and behind the wheel, he is not innocent but that does not mean he deserve to have his life taken. Again, grey areas.

And there's the problem with you in threads like these. You claim to feel one way, but then you unleash a fury of "But's."

" But the media said this"

"But the media portrayed him as this"

"But his mom said that"

"But he's not innocent either."

People need to be held accountable for their actions. Everyone knows how the media operates. Someone starts a fire, and they pour on the gasoline. They wouldn't have nearly the amount of ammo to to stir the pot and seel papers if stupid ass people didn't do stuff like this.

I point out "but" because I do not see everything in absolutes like a lot of other people. There is always another thing to consider, there is always another view, there is always something more. I dont think in straight absolutes, I always try and see things from both sides. If that bothers you, then you shouldnt read my posts.

And again, the Cowboys players on IR supporting Josh Brent =/= Josh Brent should not be held accountable. No one has ever said that. Jerry Brown's mom forgiving Josh Brent does not mean Brent shouldnt be held accountable. You can do both.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Why are people so quick to forgive someone involved in a DWI accident? IMO, this is one crime this country needs to take much more seriously with MUCH stiffer penalties. We've had two of these cases in my neck of the of the woods and in one case the man (who also was charged with hit and run) GOT OFF. The other was an 18 year old boy who did 6 months in jail.

Totally agree. Again, I'd keep penalties light for first-time offenders (treatment and classes and community service and whatnot) but I'd bury them on the second one and on.

[Mr. Sinister]

If you get in a car with a drunk driver then you understand the potential consequences.

You should, but if you're drunk as well, than you might as well throw that " reasonable level of judgment" out of the window. In a situation like this, it comes down to something very simple:

What would be worse, riding in the passenger seat of a car drunk, or driving drunk, wrecking your car, and killing the passenger? It really shouldn't be hard for most people to choose.

I point out "but" because I do not see everything in absolutes like a lot of other people. There is always another thing to consider, there is always another view, there is always something more. I dont think in straight absolutes, I always try and see things from both sides. If that bothers you, then you shouldnt read my posts.

No, you point out "But," because you value your intelligence enough to the point where you think no one else around you has the common sense to figure things like that out. We all know how the media is. The media sucks. It always has, and it always will. What you fail to realize is that other people value accountability a lot more than you do, and choose to condemn the negative/impactful actions of others, rather than go 50/50 and blame the people who choose to highlight it and sell papers, and take up air time on talk radio. And when they see comments like yours, they will respond to them.

And I've seen you make comments like that many times before, and didn't respond, but I feel very strongly about issues like this, so in this case, I decided to respond, and strongly question your opinion, which is normally what happens in debates. If that bothers you, then maybe you just shouldn't post, period.

And again, the Cowboys players on IR supporting Josh Brent =/= Josh Brent should not be held accountable. No one has ever said that. Jerry Brown's mom forgiving Josh Brent does not mean Brent shouldnt be held accountable. You can do both

You know I'm not going to let you twist my words like you do everyone else right? I never said that, never said it at all. My issue comes from the teams standpoint. I couldn't give a damn whether or not Josh Brents friends, or Jerry Brown's family forgave him, although personally I wouldn't have done it so quickly, and requested that he sit beside me at a memorial service. Some people are more forgiving of others. More power to them.

However, being held accountable, and being forgiven by others doesn't have a damn thing to do with letting someone who just killed a teammate in a stupid and senseless act even be seen on a sideline, being a "Responsible," billion dollar organization, and (even worse) not even knowing about it ahead of time. It should've been a no brainer for them, and the fact that it wasn't, is ridiculous.

[Baylor Alum]

However, being held accountable, and being forgiven by others doesn't have a damn thing to do with letting someone who just killed a teammate in a stupid and senseless act even be seen on a sideline, being a "Responsible," billion dollar organization, and (even worse) not even knowing about it ahead of time. It should've been a no brainer for them, and the fact that it wasn't, is ridiculous.

This is a fair criticism. The team should have had a plan for what to do with Josh before the game. My thought is that they should have allowed him to gather with the other IR players somewhere other than the sidelines to watch the game together. But the fact that they did not have a plan is an oversight, not an act of classlessness as is being suggested.

[Roger.Staubach]

Does anyone know what actually caused the accident? While I agree that his BA numbers were ridiculously high, did the alcohol actually play a (major) part in the accident?

[MonkFan8]

Does anyone know what actually caused the accident? While I agree that his BA numbers were ridiculously high, did the alcohol actually play a (major) part in the accident?

Is this a serious question?

It was a single car accident and he was going well over the speed limit.

Anyway, really boneheaded move to put him on the sideline. It's obvious simply from the fact he's now not allowed to be there.

[AsiaticSkinsFan]

You should, but if you're drunk as well, than you might as well throw that " reasonable level of judgment" out of the window. In a situation like this, it comes down to something very simple

What would be worse, riding in the passenger seat of a car drunk, or driving drunk, wrecking your car, and killing the passenger? It really shouldn't be hard for most people to choose.

you still arent making a case for why he is innocent here. Again, its poor judgement in getting into the car with someone who was driving and drunk. The case would be true if he was sober and of sound mind as well. Him being drunk and getting into that car makes things much worse for his own judgement. They both were being irresponsible, just that Brent was even more irresponsible. I am not making the case of Brown being as responsible as Brent.

No, you point out "But," because you value your intelligence enough to the point where you think no one else around you has the common sense to figure things like that out.

sometimes on these forums, I have to wonder this because some of the stuff I read makes me wonder.

We all know how the media is. The media sucks. It always has, and it always will. What you fail to realize is that other people value accountability a lot more than you do, and choose to condemn the negative/impactful actions of others, rather than go 50/50 and blame the people who choose to highlight it and sell papers, and take up air time on talk radio. And when they see comments like yours, they will respond to them.

And I've seen you make comments like that many times before, and didn't respond, but I feel very strongly about issues like this, so in this case, I decided to respond, and strongly question your opinion, which is normally what happens in debates. If that bothers you, then maybe you just shouldn't post, period.

the problem here is that I did not say Brent should not be accountable. Not once, there is no 50/50 about this. I think Brent should goto prison for what he did. I also said that I dont think Brent should have been on the sidelines. My whole points has revolved around Jerry Brown's mother and family and how the media are not taking value in her say. If she came out and berating Brent and said she wished her son never met Brent, and Brent was on the sideline Sunday, her words would have been used to validate their views.

The fact that she didnt and has forgiven Brent and asked for the Cowboys to support Brent, it seems that she has been glossed over. I cannot wrap my head around that. I heard Cowher say it was "insensitive" and I wonder WHO is it insensitive too? The mother of the man who died in the crash asked for it, so who are the Cowboys being insensitive towards? Us on a message board, or those in the media who are nowhere near the situation? Who?

And believe me, I am not bothered by it.

You know I'm not going to let you twist my words like you do everyone else right? I never said that, never said it at all.

I didnt twist your words, you just said earlier in this very post that I dont value accountability. I can quote it again if you want?

My issue comes from the teams standpoint. I couldn't give a damn whether or not Josh Brents friends, or Jerry Brown's family forgave him, although personally I wouldn't have done it so quickly, and requested that he sit beside me at a memorial service. Some people are more forgiving of others. More power to them.

here is the thing, I agree with you completely. I dont understand how she can forgive Brent so easily. That is amazing to me, and she is a stronger person than I am for doing so because there is no chance in hell that I would (this quickly)

However, what is OUR role in their grieving? What do WE have to do with this? WE have no vested interest in this except for what we see. Brown's family are far more closer to the situation, and the Cowboys are closer as well. OUR feelings dont matter at all. The same is true for the media's feelings on this. WE are not the ones who lost someone here. Jerry Brown's mother, Stacey Jackson, is the one who's feelings matter. She is the one who lost her son. And she is the one who forgives and supports him. Brent will goto prison for what he did, but I dont see anything wrong with the Cowboys players following Stacey Jackson's example. However having him on the sidelines was not something I would do.

However, being held accountable, and being forgiven by others doesn't have a damn thing to do with letting someone who just killed a teammate in a stupid and senseless act even be seen on a sideline, being a "Responsible," billion dollar organization, and (even worse) not even knowing about it ahead of time. It should've been a no brainer for them, and the fact that it wasn't, is ridiculous.

I agree that is suspect that they didnt "know" (and that could be damage control, who knows for sure) and that dude shouldnt be on the sideline.

But as a human being, they want to help dude get over something that and make him feel loved again. I get it. Brent wasnt acting out of malice when he killed Brown, he was a drunk fool.

---------- Post added December-18th-2012 at 11:52 AM ----------

Does anyone know what actually caused the accident? While I agree that his BA numbers were ridiculously high, did the alcohol actually play a (major) part in the accident?

dude, he was drunk in a single car accident. That caused the accident.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Is this a serious question?

It was a single car accident and he was going well over the speed limit.

Anyway, really boneheaded move to put him on the sideline. It's obvious simply from the fact he's now not allowed to be there.

He hit a curb, flipped and then proceeded to skid 900 feet and I believe hit a tree.

The 900 feet thing kind of blows my mind. That's three ****ing football fields. Crazy. Think of how fast he must have been going.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Beyond the inappropriateness of it, I just don't know how I would be able to interact with him if I were his teammate. What do you say? "Glad you're okay...shame about Jerry..."

[Roger.Staubach]

He hit a curb, flipped and then proceeded to skid 900 feet and I believe hit a tree.

The 900 feet thing kind of blows my mind. That's three ****ing football fields. Crazy. Think of how fast he must have been going.

That's fair (and FAR!). I was just curious if he hit a small pack of deer...had a blowout while going around a turn...whatever. If what you say is correct, I find it hard to come up with any scenario whereby alcohol was not the most contributing factor.

[Mr. Sinister]

you still arent making a case for why he is innocent here. Again, its poor judgement in getting into the car with someone who was driving and drunk. The case would be true if he was sober and of sound mind as well. Him being drunk and getting into that car makes things much worse for his own judgement. They both were being irresponsible, just that Brent was even more irresponsible. I am not making the case of Brown being as responsible as Brent.

.

The responsible thing for a drunk person to do, is get in the car with someone to take them home, which is what Brown did. What you are essentially saying is that he isn't innocent because he was drunk, and rode in the passenger seat.

Now if you want to start a thread saying that all drunk people aren' t innocent, rather than saying what drunk people can do, like murder, drunk driving, battery, etc, then be my guest. Judging from the number that Brent blew on the breathalizer, I'd find it hard to believe that he didn' t wreak of alcohol, which would lead me to believe that Brown was seriously intoxicated himself, because no sober person would ride with someone like that, especially if they saw them drinking heavily. And if he did, then he paid for that lapse in judgment with his life.

I don't really care for drunk people, or at least people that make a habit of getting drunk time after time, but that is a far cry from crossing the line and harming others, which I have zero tolerance for. So yes, Brown is innocent in this. Made a bad choice, but he is innocent, that is unless you think he helped steer Brents wheel and wreck the car.

sometimes on these forums, I have to wonder this because some of the stuff I read makes me wonder.

Makes me wonder too...

the problem here is that I did not say Brent should not be accountable. Not once, there is no 50/50 about this. I think Brent should goto prison for what he did. I also said that I dont think Brent should have been on the sidelines. My whole points has revolved around Jerry Brown's mother and family and how the media are not taking value in her say. If she came out and berating Brent and said she wished her son never met Brent, and Brent was on the sideline Sunday, her words would have been used to validate their views.

The fact that she didnt and has forgiven Brent and asked for the Cowboys to support Brent, it seems that she has been glossed over. I cannot wrap my head around that. I heard Cowher say it was "insensitive" and I wonder WHO is it insensitive too? The mother of the man who died in the crash asked for it, so who are the Cowboys being insensitive towards? Us on a message board, or those in the media who are nowhere near the situation? Who?

No organization should ever do what may or may not be in their best interest, just because of what a dead players mother thinks they should do. Might sound callous, but it's the truth. There are many things they could have done instead of having him on the sidelines. They can support Josh Brent all they want. I don't really care.

I didnt twist your words, you just said earlier in this very post that I dont value accountability. I can quote it again if you want?

No, you did. You said that just because Josh Brent is getting support from his teammates, it doesn't mean that he isn't being held accountable by them, which I never implied. Quote away.

And I didn't say that you don't value accountability, I said that I (and others) value accountability more than you do.

here is the thing, I agree with you completely. I dont understand how she can forgive Brent so easily. That is amazing to me, and she is a stronger person than I am for doing so because there is no chance in hell that I would (this quickly)

However, what is OUR role in their grieving? What do WE have to do with this? WE have no vested interest in this except for what we see. Brown's family are far more closer to the situation, and the Cowboys are closer as well. OUR feelings dont matter at all. The same is true for the media's feelings on this. WE are not the ones who lost someone here. Jerry Brown's mother, Stacey Jackson, is the one who's feelings matter. She is the one who lost her son. And she is the one who forgives and supports him. Brent will goto prison for what he did, but I dont see anything wrong with the Cowboys players following Stacey Jackson's example. However having him on the sidelines was not something I would do.

This is a discussion. My issue is why the hell did they let him on the sidelines. My feelings don't matter in regards to this issue, because it is outside of my control. Again, you think everyone is so lost that they can't figure that out.

People discuss topics everyday that are out of their control. Sooo what does that have to do with anything? I never said I have a problem with how the Cowboys players feel towards Brent. You're just simply not grasping anything that I'm typing.

But as a human being, they want to help dude get over something that and make him feel loved again. I get it. Brent wasnt acting out of malice when he killed Brown, he was a drunk foool.

Once again, I have no problem with that. I'm sure he feels terrible for what he did, and he's fortunate to have many people who want to comfort him.

He shouldn't have been on that sideline.

[RonArtest15]

Nose tackle Josh Brent will not be permitted to be on the Dallas Cowboys' sideline for the remainder of the season, team and league sources said Tuesday.

Rest of Article in Link

Here is what I said regarding this topic in the other thread:

For all the people (and football fans) around this country who have lost someone in their lives due to someone's negligence in making the decision to drink and drive, looking at Brent on the sidelines is a VERY tough pill to swallow. It's fine for the Cowboys to support the man, but it was in extremely poor taste to have him out there on the sidelines even w/ Brown's mom's blessing.

[Baylor Alum]

Rest of Article in Link

Here is what I said regarding this topic in the other thread:

For all the people (and football fans) around this country who have lost someone in their lives due to someone's negligence in making the decision to drink and drive, looking at Brent on the sidelines is a VERY tough pill to swallow. It's fine for the Cowboys to support the man, but it was in extremely poor taste to have him out there on the sidelines even w/ Brown's mom's blessing.

The point I have been trying to get across (rather unsuccessfully) is that the organization did not "have him out there on the sidelines." The other players on IR did it themselves without the knowledge of the coaching staff or front office. Apparently, since the memorial service for Jerry Brown, Josh became withdrawn. He quit responding to calls and texts from players and quit showing up at team facilities. The players were afraid for his safety, and actually went and picked him up to take him to the game. The reports say that he decided to leave the sidelines after he was shown on TV, but he would not have known that he was shown on TV. So I assume the team (probably Jerry or the PR guys) told him to leave the sidelines. The point is, I do not believe the team would have had him out there had they known about it beforehand. The organization is being unfairly castigated for this incident.

[S.T.real,lights,out]

Yea, i didn't really agree with them having him there...nor did it seem like anyone else did...

[renaissance]

The point I have been trying to get across (rather unsuccessfully) is that the organization did not "have him out there on the sidelines." The other players on IR did it themselves without the knowledge of the coaching staff or front office. Apparently, since the memorial service for Jerry Brown, Josh became withdrawn. He quit responding to calls and texts from players and quit showing up at team facilities. The players were afraid for his safety, and actually went and picked him up to take him to the game. The reports say that he decided to leave the sidelines after he was shown on TV, but he would not have known that he was shown on TV. So I assume the team (probably Jerry or the PR guys) told him to leave the sidelines. The point is, I do not believe the team would have had him out there had they known about it beforehand. The organization is being unfairly castigated for this incident.

Ok, then he and his teammates are idiots. Is that better?

[Mr. Sinister]

I find it very hard to believe that with all of the time between arrival, and the start of the game, not to mention time spent in the locker room area, along with pre game events (national anthem, coin toss, etc) that not one member of the team (PR staff, coaches, gm/owner/players) except for the players who invited him knew that he was there. And if that's true, then apparently they just don't make much of an effort to know who is on their sidelines or not, which would be irresponsible on their part, which would still mean that they deserve some criticism.

[RonArtest15]

The point I have been trying to get across (rather unsuccessfully) is that the organization did not "have him out there on the sidelines." The other players on IR did it themselves without the knowledge of the coaching staff or front office. Apparently, since the memorial service for Jerry Brown, Josh became withdrawn. He quit responding to calls and texts from players and quit showing up at team facilities. The players were afraid for his safety, and actually went and picked him up to take him to the game. The reports say that he decided to leave the sidelines after he was shown on TV, but he would not have known that he was shown on TV. So I assume the team (probably Jerry or the PR guys) told him to leave the sidelines. The point is, I do not believe the team would have had him out there had they known about it beforehand. The organization is being unfairly castigated for this incident.

See below:

I find it very hard to believe that with all of the time between arrival, and the start of the game, not to mention time spent in the locker room area, along with pre game events (national anthem, coin toss, etc) that not one member of the team (PR staff, coaches, gm/owner/players) except for the players who invited him knew that he was there. And if that's true, then apparently they just don't make much of an effort to know who is on their sidelines or not, which would be irresponsible on their part, which would still mean that they deserve some criticism.

+1

[ouvan59]

it absolutely does not. YOU believe it does.

I wouldnt of had him on the sidelines yesterday, but the Jerry Brown's mom was fine with it. Her feelings>>>>>how sportscasters/talk radio/and us on a message board feel.

Sorry but this isn't about Jerry Brown's Mom forgiving him. That's between her and Brent. This is about the message the NFL and the Cowboys are sending to the people that watch their product. What they did by allowing him on the sideline was say what he did was okay and here are some hugs and kisses to prove it. Give the man counseling in private if you want to support him but what they did was essentially say "Choosing to drive drunk and killing someone is bad...but not that bad."

[AsiaticSkinsFan]

Sorry but this isn't about Jerry Brown's Mom forgiving him. That's between her and Brent. This is about the message the NFL and the Cowboys are sending to the people that watch their product. What they did by allowing him on the sideline was say what he did was okay and here are some hugs and kisses to prove it. Give the man counseling in private if you want to support him but what they did was essentially say "Choosing to drive drunk and killing someone is bad...but not that bad."

i dont understand how someone can see him on the sideline and come to this conclusion.

I think its wrong for him to be there, but it was more of the shock of seeing dude on the sideline so soon after the accident. I dont think they were celebrating him like you just suggested.

[Renegade7]

Hey I appreciate your opinion, but two thoughts here, first the Cowboys management did not know until the game started that he was going to be there and now there is back tracking on supporting that action, not on supporting the player. That shows that they know it was insensitive not to the Mom but to the situation. Second, anyone with a half a brain knows how many camera's are involved in an NFL game and that he would draw attention, attention not needed.

Again, great to show support and to show forgiveness but this is not a time nor a place to display it, it smells bad. A life was lost due to a poor decision, it is called vehicular homicide, his actions killed someone. And to blame the passenger for getting in the car is one of the dumbest things I ever heard. (to whoever said that

I'm with sinister in I don't understand how absolutely no one knew until he was on the sidleine that he was on the sideline. I can't sneak on the sideline of an NFL game, how did he do it?

And like I said, if the Cowboys were really worried about the sensitivity of the issue, they wouldn've relased him by now. The only reason anyone is saying sorry is because of the backlash from the media. Damn near next day him being banned from the sidelines is on the front page of espn. This is a horse and pony show, and we're just getting taken for a ride on it.

[AsiaticSkinsFan]

The responsible thing for a drunk person to do, is get in the car with someone to take them home, which is what Brown did. What you are essentially saying is that he isn't innocent because he was drunk, and rode in the passenger seat.

Now if you want to start a thread saying that all drunk people aren' t innocent, rather than saying what drunk people can do, like murder, drunk driving, battery, etc, then be my guest. Judging from the number that Brent blew on the breathalizer, I'd find it hard to believe that he didn' t wreak of alcohol, which would lead me to believe that Brown was seriously intoxicated himself, because no sober person would ride with someone like that, especially if they saw them drinking heavily. And if he did, then he paid for that lapse in judgment with his life.

I don't really care for drunk people, or at least people that make a habit of getting drunk time after time, but that is a far cry from crossing the line and harming others, which I have zero tolerance for. So yes, Brown is innocent in this. Made a bad choice, but he is innocent, that is unless you think he helped steer Brents wheel and wreck the car.

All I know is this, if I see someone sauced Im not getting in the car with them. Most people would not get in the car with someone sauced and would try their hardest to not let that person to drive a vehicle. Brown made a major mistake, in part because he was probably drunk himself. It was a very bad decision. He did not deserve to lose his life, but he messed up. If there are gun shots, I wouldnt walk to the noise, I would get far away from it to prevent myself from being caught up.

No organization should ever do what may or may not be in their best interest, just because of what a dead players mother thinks they should do. Might sound callous, but it's the truth. There are many things they could have done instead of having him on the sidelines. They can support Josh Brent all they want. I don't really care.

thats fair

No, you did. You said that just because Josh Brent is getting support from his teammates, it doesn't mean that he isn't being held accountable by them, which I never implied. Quote away.

And I didn't say that you don't value accountability, I said that I (and others) value accountability more than you do.

right, which is BS because I most certainly do and have said I do many times. Accountability for Josh Brown will be what he has to wake up and deal with every day (which is apparently why he was invited by the players. He wasnt answering his phone or his door and they feared he was suicidal). Accountability will be when Brown has to face a judge and jury of his peers to determine what the punishment is for him. He deserves both for what he did because it was a horrible mistake which resulted in the death of his best friend. If you think I value accountability less than others, then I dont know what more you want him to be accountable for? Should he be egged as well? Should he had dung thrown on him? What else? Who else? If there is more than just the thought of killing his best friend and having to serve time in prison, and the ending of his NFL career, and being seen as a pariah for the rest of his life, then I want to know what else? If there is more than I guess I dont value accountability as much as you all do, and I am glad I do not.

This is a discussion. My issue is why the hell did they let him on the sidelines. My feelings don't matter in regards to this issue, because it is outside of my control. Again, you think everyone is so lost that they can't figure that out.

People discuss topics everyday that are out of their control. Sooo what does that have to do with anything? I never said I have a problem with how the Cowboys players feel towards Brent. You're just simply not grasping anything that I'm typing.

well look who is twisting words now? I never said we shouldnt be discussing this, and my point wasnt to say it should not be discussed. The point I am making is that I dont get why so many are upset and angered over him being on the sidelines. Why many on here, and in the media, dont want to forgive or forget like the Stacey Jackson did. Im all for discussion, but I dont understand it. I always look for the victim's family and see how their temperature on these things. If Stacey Jackson's mother was upset, then I would understand the outrage. She was ok ,well that is that. The media and people on here have just dismissed her feelings on this, and that really confuses me.

Once again, I have no problem with that. I'm sure he feels terrible for what he did, and he's fortunate to have many people who want to comfort him.

He shouldn't have been on that sideline.

fair enough

---------- Post added December-18th-2012 at 10:13 PM ----------

i'm with sinister in i don't understand how absolutely no one knew until he was on the sidleine that he was on the sideline. I can't sneak on the sideline of an nfl game, how did he do it?

And like i said, if the cowboys were really worried about the sensitivity of the issue, they wouldn've relased him by now. The only reason anyone is saying sorry is because of the backlash from the media. Damn near next day him being banned from the sidelines is on the front page of espn. This is a horse and pony show, and we're just getting taken for a ride on it.

exactly!!