mi6 Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 I think people have a hard time understanding the fact that he is just that, a backup and special teams standout. We were dealt a bad hand with the Meriweather injury and TJax suspension. Some people think its easier to just grab any street FA and put him in. We are fielding the best available players in our situation. Madieu William is a GOOD Backup, and Special Teams player. Brandon Meriweather and Tanard Jackson were supposed to be our starting safeties. And, they are damaged goods. Bruce and Shanny mucked this up! They should have sought a better tandem. We are just not a 3-4 team. We are misusing the talent we have. Ryan and Orakpo are DE and NOT LBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laxpunk2006 Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 Yet ppl say that it is the pass rush's fault that the secondary gets burned lol. Which is it? He is not bad, he is not great. In no way is he close to pro bowl level. I'm not saying we should cut him or anything like that It shouldn't be surprising that both the pass rush and coverage are being blamed for each others failures. It's the whole chicken and the egg conundrum. Football teams are symbiotic. If the pass rush isn't getting there the secondary needs to perform that much better and vice versa. When one unit struggles it isn't independent from the others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins199021 Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 This shows that Coffield should be an end, and Bowen and Jenkins are doing there job stopping the run, jenkins, and Bowen are meant to generate pass rush, that is just a bonus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Robert Griffin Experience Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 We are just not a 3-4 team. We are misusing the talent we have. Ryan and Orakpo are DE and NOT LBs. And what makes you think that? Is that just the ES conventional wisdom speaking? If Orakpo isn't a 3-4 OLB then who is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Washington Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 Wow London is playing terrible. I don't think the scheme has anything with him missing so many tackles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grego Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 Josh WilsonOverall #53 (-0.8) Coverage 0.8, Run D 0.9, Targeted 52, Receptions 32 #21/103 (61.5%), Yards 560 ( #4/103), Yac 281 (#2/103), TD 4, Int 1 DeAngelo Hall Overall #96 (-8.0) Coverage -6.7, Run D +1.4, Targeted 64, Receptions 42 #2/103 (65.6%), Yards 594 (#3/103), Yac 199 (#4/103), TD 1, Int 2 its interesting that wilson is -.8, and hall is a -8. can someone explain in dummy terms how they come up with the numbers when their other numbers seem similar? (or am i just reading them wrong?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Robert Griffin Experience Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 its interesting that wilson is -.8, and hall is a -8. can someone explain in dummy terms how they come up with the numbers when their other numbers seem similar? (or am i just reading them wrong?) Wilson is -0.8 Hall is -8.0 Wilson is playing below average Hall is playing horribly And I think PFF's numbers are rating him for a few plays that weren't as much his fault, such as the Cruz 77 yarder. Wilson was playing under Cruz, Williams was supposed to play over but instead he was watching the backfield or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurgeh Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 its interesting that wilson is -.8, and hall is a -8. can someone explain in dummy terms how they come up with the numbers when their other numbers seem similar? (or am i just reading them wrong?) Wilson coverage score: +0.8 Hall coverage score: -6.7 i.e. Hall sucks in coverage as a CB. How they come up with the coverage score: "We collect lots of extra statistics such as yards after catch, yards after contact, missed tackles, dropped passes etc., but our real focus is on grading individual performance on each play.... Was the crucial third-down completion due to the quarterback beating the coverage or a breakdown in coverage? We examine not just the statistical result of a play, but the context of that statistic..." https://www.profootballfocus.com/about/grading/ No real surprises on the scores BTW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyvern Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 So, is Jenkins a bust? I know, I'm going to catch flak on this one -- but maybe it's time to take off the Burgundy & Gold glasses and take a good hard look at Jarvis Jenkins. Draftniks know that Jenkins came out of college with a red flags around his conditioning and arm-strength issues. We all then blamed it on Clemson training program. So Jenkins looks good in pre-season and we all feel he's a stud and worthy of that 2nd round draft-pick contract he landed. Then, he gets injured and we wait in anticipation for him coming out in 2012 and showing the league that the Skins have a new 'beast' in the East. We're in mid-season .... and what's observed is that Jenkins brings nothing above journeyman level performance. And frankly, Jenkins' conditioning looks terrible, he seems to wear down quickly. Dominating? He's easily handled by one blocker. Maybe the defensive coordinator should move him to NT on the obvious running plays, because as a DE, he generates very little pressure, and is very slow laterally. At this juncture, someone should advise Jenkins that he may be seriously on the bubble -- because his conditioning is not at NFL level. He'll needs to show more -- in the training room now, on the field, and in next pre-season, or a cap-strapped team may have to conclude he's a bust. Sure, he's recovering from an ACL, but the guy is appears to be carrying too much weight in the wrong places, still doesn't show decent conditioning, and he's losing his arm-strength battles. That's got to be a concern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
random Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 The players with a positive score are doughty, williams, and baker. I think this proves whatever metric their using is garbage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahons21 Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 Jenkins may very well still be getting acclimated to the nfl. Furthermore this is his first year two- gapping, a technique that many say takes time to learn. Lastly the loss of carricker had sorely hurt our d-line rotation and they're forced to play a hi level of snaps. ---------- Post added November-8th-2012 at 08:59 AM ---------- The players with a positive score are doughty, williams, and baker. I think this proves whatever metric their using is garbage. Far too much subjectivity used in their evaluation. If grader x had preconceived notions about player y, they'll undoubtedly come out in their grades. Not a fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyvern Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 Mahon21 -- I really respect your posts, even though we don't always agree. You do raise a good factor, so I'll try to lighten up on Jenkins But it's going to be difficult. Each time I see him -- I get a bad feeling about the level of conditioning he's putting in, and it makes me doubt his inner fire. I hope something kicks in soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lavarleap56 Posted November 9, 2012 Author Share Posted November 9, 2012 The players with a positive score are doughty, williams, and baker. I think this proves whatever metric their using is garbage. 10 bad plays out of 588 for Williams wont result in a overall negative grade. Baker has actually played his assignments well when he has played (131 snaps). A 0.0 is average so a 1.1 is not really a great grade. Reed is a 0.3.. that is average, what is the issue lol They don't use any tricky metrics,watch film and grade plus minus so its pretty simple. ---------- Post added November-9th-2012 at 03:29 AM ---------- Jenkins may very well still be getting acclimated to the nfl. Furthermore this is his first year two- gapping, a technique that many say takes time to learn. Lastly the loss of carricker had sorely hurt our d-line rotation and they're forced to play a hi level of snaps.---------- Post added November-8th-2012 at 08:59 AM ---------- Far too much subjectivity used in their evaluation. If grader x had preconceived notions about player y, they'll undoubtedly come out in their grades. Not a fan. Jenkins is performing very well against the run, anyone with basic football knowledge can see that. His issues show up when rushing the passer and his grades from the team are very close to pff but a different system. As for the "far too much subjectivity" I don't agree. Every person grading film is subjective to some degree. pro football focus has a damn good reputation and its pretty cut and dry. Think some fans just get emotional when they self grade players and don"t have a accurate view of the player. People think Reed should be graded as the worst safety in the league based on every play they remember over a career not a season. Nature of the beast. "8 ) How accurate are the Statistics and Grading? Our player participation data has been confirmed as being 99 percent accurate, and we firmly believe that we are more than 90 percent accurate in our grading of individual plays. We’ve been commended by NFL players for the accuracy of our grading and told we are “light years” ahead of anything available elsewhere in media circles." ---------- Post added November-9th-2012 at 03:30 AM ---------- Jenkins may very well still be getting acclimated to the nfl. Furthermore this is his first year two- gapping, a technique that many say takes time to learn. Lastly the loss of carricker had sorely hurt our d-line rotation and they're forced to play a hi level of snaps.---------- Post added November-8th-2012 at 08:59 AM ---------- Far too much subjectivity used in their evaluation. If grader x had preconceived notions about player y, they'll undoubtedly come out in their grades. Not a fan. Jenkins is performing very well against the run, anyone with basic football knowledge can see that. His issues show up when rushing the passer and his grades from the team are very close to pff but a different system. As for the "far too much subjectivity" I don't agree. Every person grading film is subjective to some degree. pro football focus has a damn good reputation and its pretty cut and dry. Think some fans just get emotional when they self grade players and don"t have a accurate view of the player. People think Reed should be graded as the worst safety in the league based on every play they remember over a career not a season. Nature of the beast. "8 ) How accurate are the Statistics and Grading? Our player participation data has been confirmed as being 99 percent accurate, and we firmly believe that we are more than 90 percent accurate in our grading of individual plays. We’ve been commended by NFL players for the accuracy of our grading and told we are “light years” ahead of anything available elsewhere in media circles." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-bomb Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 am I reading right wilson has given up 4 tds an has 1int an hall as given up 1 td an has 2ints but hall is horrible an Wilson is better??? smh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enter Apotheosis Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 am I reading right wilson has given up 4 tds an has 1int an hall as given up 1 td an has 2ints but hall is horrible an Wilson is better??? smh What? You don't understand how that could make sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lavarleap56 Posted November 9, 2012 Author Share Posted November 9, 2012 am I reading right wilson has given up 4 tds an has 1int an hall as given up 1 td an has 2ints but hall is horrible an Wilson is better??? smh The grades don't come from just inputting stats into a math formula. On the surface 4 TDs looks bad compared to Hall but 3 of those could of came from the offense just beating the defensive play and not really Wilson screwing up. Not some wonder math formula going on here lol.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 ES: If the stats don't match popular perceptions then the metric must be flawed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lavarleap56 Posted November 9, 2012 Author Share Posted November 9, 2012 ES: If the stats don't match popular perceptions then the metric must be flawed. Truth.. See the 3 Page love fest on Trends Williams being ranked 28/51 players. I don't see anyone in there saying "pff is flawed" lol. Fans over and under value players all the time, hard not to because of the emotional attachment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.T.real,lights,out Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Wow, some very very ugly numbers...not good when all you DL and only 1 LB has a + for passrush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-bomb Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 The grades don't come from just inputting stats into a math formula. On the surface 4 TDs looks bad compared to Hall but 3 of those could of came from the offense just beating the defensive play and not really Wilson screwing up. Not some wonder math formula going on here lol.. they were his fault he's been getting torched often this yr, formula is flawed if he's ranked higher than hall either he trips over his own feet or misses the tackle or never turns his head to make a play on the ball just turrible! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lavarleap56 Posted November 9, 2012 Author Share Posted November 9, 2012 they were his fault he's been getting torched often this yr, formula is flawed if he's ranked higher than hall either he trips over his own feet or misses the tackle or never turns his head to make a play on the ball just turrible! Lol formula isn't flawed because their isn't a crazy formula to begin with. The whole play is graded not just the end result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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