One of the Redskins BIGGEST continued failings, both sides of the ball: 3rd down conversions/ stops.

[darrelgreenie]

Maybe I should start a thread with a focus on the 1st ~15 plays and Griffin's play?

E.g. from the Raiders game (brief)

 

We usually operate (ineffectively) from a tight formation with all the receivers lined up inside the numbers

The pass game has many route combinations that occur within the numbers

Offset I Pistol formation with inside zone or dive runs to Morris was ineffective and invited an 8 man front from the defense

Griffin missed keep opportunity in base Offset I Pistol read option dive

 

Best plays/formations:

Twins Offset Pistol packaged play read option play-action WR screen

Singleback ACE Pistol traditional outside zone runs/boot action passing

etc...

 

Whaddya think?

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

I think if you put something (as pertinent) as that up dg you may well cause the obsessive homers amongst our number to have a complete breakdown. 

 

Hail. 

[RandyHolt]

Kyle a presumed brilliant young mind, may be just that. Young. He is still green. Where does he fall when looking at the average ages of all the OCs. 

 

He seems somewhat static in his approach.  It is rare I see a new formation. Hurry up one time in now year 4. I count my blessings that we added the pistol. Before that, we rarely to never even used shotgun.  And our offense sucked. 

 

Maybe his approach is good for young QBs. Keep it simple. But I think it can also be a mistake to think an NFL QB cannot digest something as simple as 4 wide. If we never run hurry up, how can we ever get better running it or our two minute attack? If we never run 4 wide, how can we expect our QB to get better reading sideline to sideline? Stunting his development ignoring what are simply commonly accepted approaches to offense league wide. Basic stuff here.  

 

I too have seen the open receivers on 3rd but have also seen QBs missing the open guys for years, so who knows.  I can only wonder if Kyle is not letting RG3 scan the field aggressively, or more quickly. Perhaps justified WRT our porous OL. But I think it hurts our 3rd down. Let him read and throw. He will make mistakes and learn. He is already.

 

Let's let RG3 try and fix those 3rd downs, find that open guy, versus stressing better execution of the exact same things that are not working.  We may think the bunch keeps it easier for him, but it may also cloud his view with every WR and DB all concentrated in the same area. A tougher read as the A gap collapses. 

[RandyHolt]

Thanks GHH

 

Lets face it, 3rd is a passing down almost no matter the distance since teams now blitz so much; runs get stuffed. So its a blitzing down for our OL. So we must prepare for the blitz in new ways, if we expect to improve.  I am not sure practicing the same blitz pickups etc with the same OL is going to change anything at this point. This is who we are. 

 

One way to slow down a ferocious pass rush, the pump fake. yes, there is more to passing  than play action.

 

Get some of the blitzers to stop and jump. F with JJ. Why teams don't employ the pump fake more in general, is something I have always wondered about. It just kills aggressive D play, notably corners and safety's.  But again, also the rushers; almost the entire damn D!   What other simple fake gets more bang for the buck. It need not establishing the run first, for instance. 

 

If the QB is going to be a statue in the pocket waiting for our WR picks and rubs, why not pump some. 

 

We can only blame a rusty RG3 or OL so much since those are the coaches top choices for 2 years now. This is squarely on Kyle now in year 4. We have seen a rare pocket rollout or sprint pass. He gets applauded when we do it, but it's like.... once a game. Conversely, with Rex or Cousins, we boot time and time again.  Why is it so rare to move RG3? Even teams with stout OLs and slower QBs do that stuff as much as we do. 

 

Pass from a fake stretch run.  Go 5 wide, eliminate a few blitzers. Give him half the field to start if we fear loading up his plate and ruining him  I think we need to also run more on 3rd. Not sure how since we cannot ram it, and running wide on 3rd and short is kind of dumb, but there must be a way. A draw play; or slip the back out into the flat, and not block. Make that blitzing LB decide to not come after all. Show some new looks! 

 

I know we all know there is so much more that Kyle can do, stuff that RG3 can handle. Basic stuff. By not being so predictable alone, should help 3rds. 

 

Its the bye week. While I am bummed we had to use our trump card (hurry up) on lowly (missing 2 O studs) Oakland, there was more than a glimmer of hope for Kyle finally expanding the struggling offense. 

[Cliffmark1]

Thanks GHH

 

Lets face it, 3rd is a passing down almost no matter the distance since teams now blitz so much; runs get stuffed. So its a blitzing down for our OL. So we must prepare for the blitz in new ways, if we expect to improve.  I am not sure practicing the same blitz pickups etc with the same OL is going to change anything at this point. This is who we are. 

 

One way to slow down a ferocious pass rush, the pump fake. yes, there is more to passing  than play action.

 

Get some of the blitzers to stop and jump. F with JJ. Why teams don't employ the pump fake more in general, is something I have always wondered about. It just kills aggressive D play, notably corners and safety's.  But again, also the rushers; almost the entire damn D!   What other simple fake gets more bang for the buck. It need not establishing the run first, for instance. 

 

If the QB is going to be a statue in the pocket waiting for our WR picks and rubs, why not pump some. 

 

We can only blame a rusty RG3 or OL so much since those are the coaches top choices for 2 years now. This is squarely on Kyle now in year 4. We have seen a rare pocket rollout or sprint pass. He gets applauded when we do it, but it's like.... once a game. Conversely, with Rex or Cousins, we boot time and time again.  Why is it so rare to move RG3? Even teams with stout OLs and slower QBs do that stuff as much as we do. 

 

Pass from a fake stretch run.  Go 5 wide, eliminate a few blitzers. Give him half the field to start if we fear loading up his plate and ruining him  I think we need to also run more on 3rd. Not sure how since we cannot ram it, and running wide on 3rd and short is kind of dumb, but there must be a way. A draw play; or slip the back out into the flat, and not block. Make that blitzing LB decide to not come after all. Show some new looks! 

 

I know we all know there is so much more that Kyle can do, stuff that RG3 can handle. Basic stuff. By not being so predictable alone, should help 3rds. 

 

Its the bye week. While I am bummed we had to use our trump card (hurry up) on lowly (missing 2 O studs) Oakland, there was more than a glimmer of hope for Kyle finally expanding the struggling offense. 

This is the type of thinking that gets us where we are in 3rd down conversion efficiency.  Denver ran the ball several times in 3 and 5 3rd and 8 and they converted today and that's with Peyton Manning at his best in the back field.  If we don't run on more 3rd downs we are one dimensional and easy to stop. 

[RandyHolt]

This is the type of thinking that gets us where we are in 3rd down conversion efficiency.  Denver ran the ball several times in 3 and 5 3rd and 8 and they converted today and that's with Peyton Manning at his best in the back field.  If we don't run on more 3rd downs we are one dimensional and easy to stop. 

 

Teams used to run on 3rd and 4. But the game changed and it became a passing down. The league has become so predictable, anywhere from 3rd and 2 to 3rd and 16 is almost a guaranteed pass.  And ironically, 3rd and 17 or more is a draw, which often gets close to converting.

 

Yet it takes a Peyton F'in Manning to run on a 3rd and 8.

 

It's not rocket science.  Run when teams think you will pass, and vice versa. It's not some secret magic trick to run on 3rd down. It's simply being unpredictable.

 

Of course, had those 1 or 2 runs failed, the guy tripped, would you still post the same?

 

It is exactly what I was saying, Kyle needs to be less predictable. We can still run Morris 20+ times. Have no fear. 

 

And I am steadfast in refusing to believe that we have to run run pass to win games.

[darrelgreenie]

Its sad. Most teams seem content throw on 3rd and less then 3 and don't even consider a run an option.