Obamacare...(new title): GOP DEATH PLAN: Don-Ryan's Express

[Larry]

2 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

You posted knowingly false info and I corrected it.  

 

Back that up or back down. 

Edited January 4, 2017 by Larry

[twa]

6 minutes ago, Hersh said:

Only for states that didn't set up their own market place. 

 

Which would be majority , and even those that did set their own up are failing.

Quote

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/438104/obamacare-insurance-exchanges-failure

The nation’s largest insurer, UnitedHealth, has pulled out of exchanges in all but a handful of states. And 16 of the 23 non-profit, state-chartered co-ops created by Obamacare to sell affordable insurance plans have gone bankrupt. More insurers may follow suit. Blue Cross is losing huge sums on its exchange plans across the country: $300 million in Tennessee, $280 million in North Carolina, $185 million in Arizona, $135 million in Alabama. 

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/articl

 

e/438104/obamacare-insurance-exchanges-failure

[MartinC]

1 minute ago, Larry said:

 

Back that up or back down. 

 

Good edit 

[TheGreatBuzz]

1 hour ago, Larry said:

 

That's funny. For a year and a half, there, I had health insurance that I purchased through an exchange, run by the federal government, with my premiums almost entirely paid for by a federal subsidy. 

 

(Wish I still had it. It was fantastic coverage, and virtually free, thanks to the subsidy. Unfortunately, I'm now employed by an employer who offers (much worse) coverage, so I don't qualify, any more.)

 

I'm pretty sure that I "had Obamacare". 

 

Guess I don't exist. 

 

 

1 minute ago, Larry said:

 

Back that up or back down. 

Thanks for editing out the name calling.  It wasn't needed.

 

I went back and quoted again where you attempted to say you had Obamacare.  You either knew you actually had private insurance thanks to OC (which I think is the case) or you think Obamacare is actually an insurance plan which is 100% wrong.  If the former is correct than you were posting false info.

[Larry]

Just now, TheGreatBuzz said:

 

Thanks for editing out the name calling.  It wasn't needed.

 

I went back and quoted again where you attempted to say you had Obamacare.  

 

You just called me a liar, and you have the balls to say name calling isn't needed?  

 

I didnt "attempt" to say I had Obamacare. I flat out stated it. And proved it. Because it's a fact. 

 

Try again. 

[twa]

If I may interject, there IS a big difference between a ACA compliant private plan and a ACA Marketplace plan.

 

The Marketplace plans are Obamcared all over. 

 

add

http://blog.gravie.com/on-exchange-plans-vs-off-exchange-plans-whats-the-difference

Edited January 4, 2017 by twa

[TheGreatBuzz]

Just now, Larry said:

 

You just called me a liar, and you have the balls to say name calling isn't needed?  

 

I didnt "attempt" to say I had Obamacare. I flat out stated it. And proved it. Because it's a fact. 

 

Try again. 

Well then I was wrong in my previous assumption.  I thought you were posting false info.  I guess you actually just don't know what you are talking about.  I apologize for my incorrect assumption about you.

 

"All of the health insurance policies sold through health insuranceexchanges are policies sold by privateinsurance companies. ... However, they're technically not Obamacare insurance, they're Kaiser, Aetna, UnitedHealthCare, or whatever private health insurance company sold that particular health insurancepolicy."

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.verywell.com/what-is-obamacare-1738505&ved=0ahUKEwiln6f1yqnRAhVojFQKHfDqCrgQFgg3MAE&usg=AFQjCNFq6CH_VbgdHD16_b1uP0IpZb7ckw&sig2=NjBCYSsnzLe0qb9lXU8SBg

[skinsmarydu]

14 minutes ago, LadySkinsFan said:

Gee, you mean the for profit hospitals aren't making as much profit as they used to? Cry me a river.

 

I have a $60k bill from my stroke that I can't pay because I couldn't afford a bronze plan of $800 a month premium with a $6k deductible as a self employed person who made $30k last year, but my average was higher. 

 

I'm now on Medicare, I pay a bit over $200/month for Plan F, plus the $137 they take out of Social Security for Part B. I'm lucky now, but it won't pay for my stroke that I had in June before I turned 65. 

 

Now they're going to **** with Medicare and I'll get to pay even more for health care because you know those ****s will limit the vouchers 

 

You know that the end game of those ****s is to beggar us in our elder years.

 

Thanks Republican voters.

You hit the nail I was trying to drive in with your first line.  (So sorry that insurance corporations banked on *random number* profit and didn't quite hit it, so the CEO gets less of a bonus.)

Cry me a river.

This all goes back to when you posted that HEALTHCARE FOR PROFIT IS CRIMINAL.  I love you every day for that, and say it at least once a day to someone.  Not one person who runs an insurance corporation gives a **** about you, me, or anyone else.  It's a money shell game, plain & simple. 

I really didn't mean to start a day-long argument over the ACA.  I ain't so darn happy with my husband's company's new plan. 

[Larry]

3 minutes ago, twa said:

If I may interject, there IS a big difference between a ACA compliant private plan and a ACA Marketplace plan.

 

 

Is there?  

 

I assume that that there's a huge stack of rules that marketplace policies have to comply with, over and above non-marketplace rules. Simply because government and bureaucracies love huge stacks of rules. 

 

But I don't think I've seen any such rules actually stated. 

[TimmySmith]

2 hours ago, Hersh said:

The burden isn't placed on a few payers into the system 

It absolutely was and is.  Why did premiums triple (for those who actually paid)? The weight was placed on the payers to subsidize. 

[Larry]

6 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

Well then I was wrong in my previous assumption.  I thought you were posting false info.  I guess you actually just don't know what you are talking about.  I apologize for my incorrect assumption about you.

 

 

I haven't posted a single thing that wasn't true. 

 

Try responding to that, rather than shifting to the next untrue personal attack. 

[nonniey]

52 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

Mr. Pink already hit on what you actually had above.  What bothers me is that you even posted this.  You either knew what you had and ignored it to make a snarky remark or you really have absolutely no clue whatsoever and aren't in a position to even discuss this.  I believe it's the former.

.

I would have believed it was the former as well until his posts of the last couple of months  but now I actually think it is the latter.

[TheGreatBuzz]

7 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

Is there?  

 

I assume that that there's a huge stack of rules that marketplace policies have to comply with, over and above non-marketplace rules. Simply because government and bureaucracies love huge stacks of rules. 

 

But I don't think I've seen any such rules actually stated. 

Private employer offered plans and the market place are the same in that they have the same requirements.  Think of it as employer plan is Target and the marketplace is the mall.  One has more options and you may or may not find a better deal.  It's just up to how much time do you want to spend shopping.

5 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

I haven't posted a single thing that wasn't true. 

 

Try responding to that, rather than shifting to the next untrue personal attack. 

I have repeatadly.  You said you have Obamacare.  That isn't true.  I also posted a link to explain why that wasn't true.  Do you need me to go quote it again?

Just now, nonniey said:

I would have believed it was the former as well until his posts of the last couple of months  but now I actually think it is the latter.

Yea I was wrong.  Apparently it is the latter.

[TradeTheBeal!]

Bernie now bringing huge posters of Trump tweets onto the floor.  He's the best...

 

[Larry]

5 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

 

I have repeatadly.  You said you have Obamacare.  That isn't true.  I also posted a link to explain why that wasn't true.  Do you need me to go quote it again?

Yea I was wrong.  Apparently it is the latter.

 

I have said I had Obamacare and it is true. I even specified how I came to that conclusion. (And you have not disputed it in any way). 

 

You have pointed out that I did not have health insurance in which the name of the insurance company is literally "Obamacare". And have provided support to say that Obamacare is not the name of an insurance company. 

 

In short, you have supported the fact that you are knowingly posting false information. And unlike you, I'll actually support that statement. 

 

1). Multiple people have, recently in this thread, made the statement that they "had Obamacare". 

 

2). When they have made that statement, you have reacted as though they said "I have health insurance in which the name of the insurance company is 'Obamacare'", and proceeded to insult them for their massive stupidity, for saying that. 

 

3). You have literally posted the fact that "Obamacare" does not equal "having insurance in which the name of the insurance company is literally 'Obamacare'. Thus, you're aware that what said posters (including myself) have said, is not the same as what you're insulting them for. 

 

4). From your very first use of this tactic, your chosen method for insulting people who used the phrase "had Obamacare" has been to point out Obamacare does not equal the thing which you are pretending they said. Thus, you knew that you were attacking people for things they did not say from your very first post in this conversation.  

 

5). When people (myself) point out that you're attacking people because something they didn't say, isn't true, your response isn't to try to show that they said it, but rather to simply continue reciting the claim which you know is untrue, with bigger insults attached. 

 

(Paraphrase). "You said X, which I claim is Y, and here's proof that X isn't Y, therefore you're a liar". 

 

[Hersh]

1 hour ago, twa said:

 

Which would be majority , and even those that did set their own up are failing.

e/438104/obamacare-insurance-exchanges-failure

This is very misleading. Those insurance companies are making profits overall, but big shock that the people that couldn't afford health care for years are now costing them more money upfront on the exchanges. On top of which all the top execs in BCBS of NC got big raises. 

48 minutes ago, TimmySmith said:

It absolutely was and is.  Why did premiums triple (for those who actually paid)? The weight was placed on the payers to subsidize. 

Look at the history of premiums pre-obamacare. There was a study on this just released and it's not tough to find. Also, please provide actual proof of your claims. Should be easy to do since you are so sure. 

[TheGreatBuzz]

@Larry  I'm not going to keep beating this horse.  I will explain it one more time.  The. You can read back through what I have posted and if you can't understand it still, you are beyond help and I don't know what to do.  

 

No one can have Obamacare.  Obamacare is a law, not an insurance.  (Technically the marketplace isn't even Obamacare, just a thing set up that was required ny Obamacare.  But that is a nuance not worth debating).  You can have Etna for example that you may have gotten through the marketplace thanks to Obamacare.  

 

If you go to the mall and buy a tshirt, you have a tshirt.  You do not have "the mall".  Same thing.

 

this started because I was trying correct something disengenous that TWA said.  The you decided to tell me I was wrong.  I would have let it go after I corrected TWA but you wanted to tell me I was wrong so on down the rabbit hole we went.

 

Now I have explained my part, I have provided several quotes, and I have linked an article explaining why I am correct.  Either provide proof I am factually wrong or leave me alone.

[LadySkinsFan]

Congresswoman Marsha Blackburn of Tennessee, through Twitter, polled her constituents about the ACA and whether they wanted it repealed. 

 

She got a big surprise.  86% said NO!

 

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2017/1/4/1617011/-Republican-congresswoman-s-poll-on-repealing-Obamacare-didn-t-quite-go-as-planned

 

I plan on sending SHAME postcards to every member of Congress regarding the ACA, Social Security, and Medicare.

Edited January 5, 2017 by LadySkinsFan

[Larry]

Just now, TheGreatBuzz said:

@Larry  I'm not going to keep beating this horse.  I will explain it one more time.  The. You can read back through what I have posted and if you can't understand it still, you are beyond help and I don't know what to do.  

 

No one can have Obamacare.  Obamacare is a law, not an insurance.  (Technically the marketplace isn't even Obamacare, just a thing set up that was required ny Obamacare.  But that is a nuance not worth debating).  You can have Etna for example that you may have gotten through the marketplace thanks to Obamacare.  

 

If you go to the mall and buy a tshirt, you have a tshirt.  You do not have "the mall".  Same thing.

 

this started because I was trying correct something disengenous that TWA said.  The you decided to tell me I was wrong.  I would have let it go after I corrected TWA but you wanted to tell me I was wrong so on down the rabbit hole we went.

 

Now I have explained my part, I have provided several quotes, and I have linked an article explaining why I am correct.  Either provide proof I am factually wrong or leave me alone.

 

"I'm not going to keep beating this horse" might seem more sincere if your preceding post hadn't called me a liar for a second time.  And then followed up by calling me an idiot for the third time.  And then proceeded to continue pretending that I've stupidly said something that not one person has actually said.  

 

And no, pointing out that "Obamacare" is not the name of an insurance company for a fifth time (and throwing in a seventh insult) will not magically make your personal attacks justified, nor magically transform you into the patient victim of dishonest, unprovoked, attacks.  

 

7 minutes ago, LadySkinsFan said:

Congresswoman Marsha Blackburn of Tennessee, through Twitter, polled her constituents about the ACA and whether they wanted it repealed. 

 

She got a big surprise.  86% said NO!

 

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2017/1/4/1617011/-Republican-congresswoman-s-poll-on-repealing-Obamacare-didn-t-quite-go-as-planned

 

I plan on sending SHAME postcards to every member of Congress regarding the ACA, Social Security, and Medicare.

 

I wouldn't put a lot of faith into a Twitter poll of the followers of a particular politician.  

[TheGreatBuzz]

1 minute ago, Larry said:

 

"I'm not going to keep beating this horse" might seem more sincere if your preceding post hadn't called me a liar for a second time.  And then followed up by calling me an idiot for the third time.  And then proceeded to continue pretending that I've stupidly said something that not one person has actually said.  

 

And no, pointing out that "Obamacare" is not the name of an insurance company for a fifth time (and throwing in a seventh insult) will not magically make your personal attacks justified, nor magically transform you into the patient victim of dishonest, unprovoked, attacks.  

 

Please quote the insults you refer to.  Or where I called you a liar or idiot.  I did say you didn't know what you were talking about and that you were wrong.  That does not make you an idiot, it just makes you wrong.  I believe the only insult used was by you which you went back and edited out.  I believe a mod even commended you for it.

[twa]

41 minutes ago, Hersh said:

This is very misleading. Those insurance companies are making profits overall, but big shock that the people that couldn't afford health care for years are now costing them more money upfront on the exchanges. On top of which all the top execs in BCBS of NC got big raises. 

 

 

When would you think they would not be incurring losses?

When the millennials actually sign up and pay?

 

Execs do tend to get big raises when premiums rise.....and they certainly rose and expanded the pool.

[Hersh]

2 minutes ago, twa said:

 

When would you think they would not be incurring losses?

When the millennials actually sign up and pay?

 

Execs do tend to get big raises when premiums rise.....and they certainly rose and expanded the pool.

I would expect things to change once the wave of uninsured gets relatively caught up on health care. It's not to say that there shouldn't be changes, but "non-profits" giving execs pay raises shouldn't turn around and bail on the exchanges when they are making profits. 

[twa]

raises are a part of expansion.

 

From what I've seen there is no getting caught up on healthcare.

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

500 per month, 7200 deductible.  No subsidy.  In North Carolina.

 

I want healthcare access for all, but there's gotta be a better way.   

[Larry]

6 minutes ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

500 per month, 7200 deductible.  No subsidy.  In North Carolina.

 

I want healthcare access for all, but there's gotta be a better way.   

 

Oh, I think it's glaringly obvious that the better way would be Medicare (or maybe Medicare Light) for all.  A single system, offering minimal coverage for everybody.  (And let private insurance companies compete to offer coverage over and above the basics.)  

 

For one thing, I can't help but think that there would be a yuge savings on overhead costs, if there were a single payment processing system for routine medical care.  That's got to be a huge expense, that isn't actually paying for health care.  

 

But as I've pointed out, the problem I see with that idea is that if you create a system like that, it won't stay minimal coverage.  Rather, the government will be under intense pressure from providers, insurance companies, and consumers, all pressuring the government to cover more and more things.  

 

No way the government could resist all of those special interests pulling in the same direction.  

 

But I sure feel like it would be the best solution, in a perfect world.