Pet peeve: Obama's "fair share" talking point

[Burgold]

Not too hard to find things to be frustrated with. Personally, I think almost all the pillars are failing. I think Government's behaved irresponsibly, as have the banks and lenders, and the many businesses who have been too focused on immediate, short term profits and made terrible decisons, and lastly... we, the people, are acruing too much debt and acting irresponsibly whether it's from the entitlement generation issues, the debt issues, or a certain callous divide which allows all the larger institutions to abuse the hell out of us.

[Thirtyfive2seven]

Obama's policies are a trainwreck unless you dig socialism And hey, if that's your thing, great! Point of note: no war time President has ever been denied a 2nd term. Watch out Syrian, Iran. If your policies fail you can always start a war!

And lastly, the only way to pay a 'fair share' to have to the 49% of people that don't pay taxes start paying taxes and have the rest of the people pay the same rate. You earn more, you pay more. Flat tax sounds great to me.

[Madison Redskin]

Obama's policies are a trainwreck unless you dig socialism.

Please elaborate upon your theory that his policies constitute "socialism". Are you referencing the auto bailouts? Like the ones Reagan approved? Or TARP, i.e., the program that Bush devised? Or the health care mandate, like the one proposed by Newt Gingrich or the other one proposed and actually implemented by Mitt Romney? Or are you talking about the tax hikes on the wealthy, like the ones Reagan implemented?

Or, given the thread title, perhaps you are talking about Obama's use of the phrase "fair share." If so, this guy wants to talk with you....

cgbJ-Fs1ikA

Contrary to what Fox News and the current lame slate of GOP nominees are spoonfeeding to their followers, Obama is NOT a radical left wing ideologue. He just seems like one because yall have drifted so far to the right that just about everyone, outside of those who wear tin foil hats, seems like Chairman Mao.

[Thirtyfive2seven]

cgbJ-Fs1ikA

Contrary to what Fox News and the current lame slate of GOP nominees are spoonfeeding to their followers, Obama is NOT a radical left wing ideologue. He just seems like one because yall have drifted so far to the right that just about everyone, outside of those who wear tin foil hats, seems like Chairman Mao.

As for Obama not being a radical left wing ideologue we agree to disagree. I thought Obama was the great uniter. That's what he was made out to be during his run for Presidency. They said he would "reach across party lines and bring the people together." Yet all he really talks about is class warfare and class envy. How does that bring a country together? How does talking about people paying their fair share bring anyone together? IMO, a flat tax is the answer.

What is the point of succeeding in this country if the President of the United States wants to make you pay for that success? Why should I start a small business and want to grow it into a huge multimillion dollar corporation like GE and Apple when I'll have to pay the highest business tax rate in the world? Or have the strictest EPA standards anywhere all based on the lie of man made global warming? Why become a millionaire when the Government will step in and tell me that I don't pay enough and I should contribute my money to .. and here's the kicker.. a larger, more freedom restricted government? A Government that wants everyone to be 'equal' and have 'free' health insurance. Stop saying it's free. It's not. Have you ever been to a government run business? Can't wait to stand in line for healthcare!! I suppose you also agree with the occupy movement since you agree with 'fair share.'

Do you make a lot of money? I'm curious. If so, I deserve some of it because x,y,z. How about this as an alternative. Work for a living and pay your own way and stop expecting someone who was in the same situation as the "99%" and figured out a way to make it with hard work. The entitlement culture in this country needs to change. Not everything in handed to you. Yes, you actually have to work for it.

And btw, quoting Reagan or Fox news is not something you will find me doing. I read CNN, MSNBC, Washington Post, Huffington Post, and watch morons like John Stewart and Bill Maur because I want to hear all sides of the story before coming to my own conclusions. My conclusions differ from yours and that's ok And finally I will say this. Why do we have to tax more? it's not really because not everyone pays their fair share. If that were the case then we would address the situation that 40 some percent of people don't pay ANY taxes. no. The real issue is we need to tax more to pay for all the entitlement programs and "free health insurance"

---------- Post added February-26th-2012 at 03:16 PM ----------

Not too hard to find things to be frustrated with. Personally, I think almost all the pillars are failing. I think Government's behaved irresponsibly, as have the banks and lenders, and the many businesses who have been too focused on immediate, short term profits and made terrible decisons, and lastly... we, the people, are acruing too much debt and acting irresponsibly whether it's from the entitlement generation issues, the debt issues, or a certain callous divide which allows all the larger institutions to abuse the hell out of us.

i agree with everything you just said.

[deejaydana]

I have to laugh that Fox is the bogey man in every instance. While I readily admit they're biased, you can't deny that CNN, MSNBC and loads of other 'mainstream' outlets are carrying water for Barry.

[Thirtyfive2seven]

I have to laugh that Fox is the bogey man in every instance. While I readily admit they're biased, you can't deny that CNN, MSNBC and loads of other 'mainstream' outlets are carrying water for Barry.

barry soetoro?

[deejaydana]

barry soetoro?

I agree with you, his administration is a complete trainwreck and when he errs, which is often, the media (to a very large extent) responds with silence or misdirection. It was recently aired that his group was taking meetings with Media Matters people specifically to dig for dirt on Fox News people in their personal lives. Didn't Nixon do the same thing? (granted he took it as far as tape recordings and it rightfully doomed him). Where's the coverage for Obama on that now? How thin skinned is he anyway to not be able to handle negative press? I mentioned it in the inane "media bias" thread last week or the week before and was met with crickets chirping.

[Larry]

Should we just rename this thread "The Talking Point Thread"?

[Thirtyfive2seven]

I agree with you, his administration is a complete trainwreck and when he errs, which is often, the media (to a very large extent) responds with silence or misdirection. It was recently aired that his group was taking meetings with Media Matters people specifically to dig for dirt on Fox News people in their personal lives. Didn't Nixon do the same thing? (granted he took it as far as tape recordings and it rightfully doomed him). Where's the coverage for Obama on that now? How thin skinned is he anyway to not be able to handle negative press? I mentioned it in the inane "media bias" thread last week or the week before and was met with crickets chirping.

yeah, when will everyone just admit that the mainstream media is completely all in for Obama or any other Democratic candidate. That's ok because all the facts point to they are but why won't anyone admit that? Fox is biased and so is CNN.

I agree with you though. When the President messes up no one really calls him out on it unless it's fox news and that makes them look like the bad guy. Sigh. Politics is all crap. Romney has the same financial backers that Obama did therefore I think that moron may get elected next. if so it's more of the same. Bush sucks!! new President.. HE SUCKS! new president... Romney Sucks! .. and on and on and on... with NO change.

[Guest Spearfeather]

From the Party of European Socialist website:

http://www.pes.org/sites/www.pes.org/files/draft_declaration_of_principles.pdf

I wonder how many of these principles Obama truly disagrees with.

7. A strong and just society is one that instills confidence and inspires trust. To guarantee this

trust and confidence, we must ensure that the wealth generated by all is shared fairly. This

collective responsibility embodies our conviction that we are stronger when we work together.

[Thirtyfive2seven]

From the Party of European Socialist website:

http://www.pes.org/sites/www.pes.org/files/draft_declaration_of_principles.pdf

I wonder how many of these principles Obama truly disagrees with.

Hmm pay your fair share and 7. from that link sounds awfully similar.

[Madison Redskin]

As for Obama not being a radical left wing ideologue we agree to disagree.

No. How about actually defending your charge regarding socialism by pointing to specifics? What, in your view, makes Obama a radical left wing ideologue who promotes a socialist agenda? Please refer to specifics, not platitudes.

I am not among Obama's faithful, but I am sick and tired of absurd labels being applied to him. His agenda is very similar to those of his predecessors, but for some inexplicable reason, the second a Muslim guy from Africa takes up residence at 1600 PA, the right goes apoplectic.

I thought Obama was the great uniter. That's what he was made out to be during his run for Presidency. They said he would "reach across party lines and bring the people together." Yet all he really talks about is class warfare and class envy. How does that bring a country together?

I absolutely agree that peddling talk of class warfare and class envy is divisive and unproductive. What is ridiculous is you are attributing such talk to Obama. You need to check your sources, because there's one party peddling that crap about class warfare and its members are lapping that **** up. Wanna guess which one?

What is the point of succeeding in this country if the President of the United States wants to make you pay for that success? Why should I start a small business and want to grow it into a huge multimillion dollar corporation like GE and Apple when I'll have to pay the highest business tax rate in the world? Or have the strictest EPA standards anywhere all based on the lie of man made global warming? Why become a millionaire when the Government will step in and tell me that I don't pay enough and I should contribute my money to .. and here's the kicker.. a larger, more freedom restricted government? A Government that wants everyone to be 'equal' and have 'free' health insurance. Stop saying it's free. It's not. Have you ever been to a government run business? Can't wait to stand in line for healthcare!! I suppose you also agree with the occupy movement since you agree with 'fair share.'

I'm not sure how to respond to a rant that, in just a few short sentences, covers the progressive v. flat tax, corporate tax rates, environmental laws, health insurance, and protest movements. FWIW, I'm not sure what I think of the "occupy movement," since, like many people nowadays, it didn't offer a coherent message.

Do you make a lot of money? I'm curious. If so, I deserve some of it because x,y,z. How about this as an alternative. Work for a living and pay your own way and stop expecting someone who was in the same situation as the "99%" and figured out a way to make it with hard work. The entitlement culture in this country needs to change. Not everything in handed to you. Yes, you actually have to work for it.

I'm not wealthy. I suppose most people would consider me to be a member of the upper-middle class. And I bust my ass (this year averaging a paltry 70+ hours per week), so please spare me the sermon about a good work ethic.

And finally I will say this. Why do we have to tax more? it's not really because not everyone pays their fair share. If that were the case then we would address the situation that 40 some percent of people don't pay ANY taxes. no. The real issue is we need to tax more to pay for all the entitlement programs and "free health insurance"

Capital gains, dividend, and ordinary income tax rates are at near historic lows. Ya know why? Because Bush pushed through temporary tax cuts that were purportedly justified by the surplus and supposed to usher in an economic boom. That surplus is gone and the economic boom materialized ... and vaporized millions of jobs. Now that we have a massive deficit (ya know, the thing the right has been screaming about for years), it would seem logical to rollback the temporary cuts on those who can still eat without those cuts. But, apparently, using logic is only for radical leftwing ideologue socialists nowadays.

---------- Post added February-26th-2012 at 03:57 PM ----------

Hmm pay your fair share and 7. from that link sounds awfully similar.

And the youtube video of Reagan I posted. I always knew he was a socialist.

I am starting to think my dog might be a socialist, as his hair is black at the ends and a little bit red underneath. Black on the outside, red underneath ... hmmm, just like Obama!

[Jumbo]

7. A strong and just society is one that instills confidence and inspires trust. To guarantee this trust and confidence, we must ensure that the wealth generated by all is shared fairly. This collective responsibility embodies our conviction that we are stronger when we work together.

Spear, I wish you wouldn't (even inadvertently) spread this kind of anti-American, unholy, indecent, commie-lib-atheist-USA-hating puppy-drowning thinking. :pfft:

And I don't want to hear how it appears that we have some play in defining "fairly." :mad:

Besides, Jesus forbid we should even consider the idea of using any individual talents we have that lead to accumulating more "good stuffs" than our fellows just so we can give it to those fellows instead of making our own pile as much bigger and bigger than theirs as possible, just as His Dad intended. :mad:

( I am not a commie :paranoid:)

[Thirtyfive2seven]

Honestly, Liberals are exhausting. I don't care to argue with you because you are all in when it comes to Obama. Therefore your views will NEVER change. Nothing I say to you will get through to you because of your way of thinking. You drank the media Kool Aid. I'm not going to sit here and go through your post line by line and provide you with alternative ways of thinking from other websites because they will be from such sites that you obviously won't be caught dead reading such as Fox news, Mark Levin, Rush Limbaugh, the conservative thinker, the heritage foundation, etc. Then you will have arguments for each and every single one of those sites and why they are anti Obama. What's the point? If I actually thought you would listen to reason I would try.

---------- Post added February-26th-2012 at 04:13 PM ----------

Spear, I wish you wouldn't (even inadvertently) spread this kind of anti-American, unholy, indecent, commie-lib-atheist-USA-hating puppy-drowning thinking. :pfft:

And I don't want to hear how it appears that we have some play in defining "fairly." :mad:

Besides, Jesus forbid we should even consider the idea of using any individual talents we have that lead to accumulating more "good stuffs" than our fellows just so we can give it to those fellows instead of making our own pile as much bigger and bigger than theirs as possible, just as His Dad intended. :mad:

( I am not a commie :paranoid:)

We should have no justice system either because HE taught us to turn the other cheek.

[Guest Spearfeather]

Originally posted by Jumbo

Spear, I wish you wouldn't (even inadvertently) spread this kind of anti-American, unholy, indecent, commie-lib-atheist-USA-hating puppy-drowning thinking.

Oh, don't get me wrong Jumbo....I don't think Bo is in any danger.

[Jumbo]

Sorry, Spear, in true irony,I got mixed up there (glad I hadn't said anything bad).

BTW, I was going to add that I just wanted you to know that given our so-alike music tastes, I used my 17,000th post on that one to you though it wouldn't count on the total, but the I realized of course it was more likely my 34,000th one in fact. This shows one can master both quality and quantity.

[Madison Redskin]

Honestly, Liberals are exhausting. I don't care to argue with you because you are all in when it comes to Obama.

You have no clue what you are talking about. I am by no means "all in when it comes to Obama." I've gone on record multiple times opposing him (e.g., I oppose Obamacare on multiple grounds). But, if you want to keep making assumptions, go right ahead.

Therefore your views will NEVER change. Nothing I say to you will get through to you because of your way of thinking. You drank the media Kool Aid. I'm not going to sit here and go through your post line by line and provide you with alternative ways of thinking from other websites because they will be from such sites that you obviously won't be caught dead reading such as Fox news, Mark Levin, Rush Limbaugh, the conservative thinker, the heritage foundation, etc.

Once again, you have no clue what you are talking about. And I figured you wouldn't respond to my post. Once you get beyond platitudes, the vast majority of people who call Obama a "socialist" tend to quiet down quite a bit.

In any event, IMO getting worked up over Obama calling for the rich to pay their "fair share" (as Reagan did) is silly. Who gives a rat's ass about a phrase like that? Debate the specifics of his proposals, not the phraseology.

[Thirtyfive2seven]

You have no clue what you are talking about. I am by no means "all in when it comes to Obama." I've gone on record multiple times opposing him (e.g., I oppose Obamacare on multiple grounds). But, if you want to keep making assumptions, go right ahead.

Once again, you have no clue what you are talking about. And I figured you wouldn't respond to my post. Once you get beyond platitudes, the vast majority of people who call Obama a "socialist" tend to quiet down quite a bit.

In any event, IMO getting worked up over Obama calling for the rich to pay their "fair share" (as Reagan did) is silly. Who gives a rat's ass about a phrase like that? Debate the specifics of his proposals, not the phraseology.

No, it's because I don't want to argue with you. Period. It's a complete waste of my time. I said what I wanted to say and I can point back to hundreds of specific links. I don't just make this stuff up Like I said previously, I listen to all the media and make up my own mind. Have you ever listened to rush limbaugh? You'd be too scared that you would agree with him I think. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-320018235803683802

And btw, it's not just about his calling for the rich to pay their fair share but perhaps I was wrong in bringing up all my other points in this thread so I'll shuddup

[Jumbo]

Honestly, Liberals are exhausting. I don't care to argue with you because you are all in when it comes to Obama. Therefore your views will NEVER change. Nothing I say to you will get through to you because of your way of thinking. You drank the media Kool Aid. I'm not going to sit here and go through your post line by line and provide you with alternative ways of thinking from other websites because they will be from such sites that you obviously won't be caught dead reading such as Fox news, Mark Levin, Rush Limbaugh, the conservative thinker, the heritage foundation, etc. Then you will have arguments for each and every single one of those sites and why they are anti Obama. What's the point? If I actually thought you would listen to reason I would try.

---------- Post added February-26th-2012 at 04:13 PM ----------

We should have no justice system either because HE taught us to turn the other cheek.

Ok. Now I'll get to you.

First, I'll now apply this more seriously this time, but also to where it belongs (per your reply to me):

"Be sure to be as absolutely full of sefl-seriosity as possible."

And per your other comments, here's one I typed that was going to post to Madison after reading your earlier posts a bit ago but didn't post (I do that a lot).

We should have no justice system either because HE taught us to turn the other cheek.

Always fun to hear a guy whose driveway looks like a junkyard, ****ing about how his worthless neighbor doesn't mow the lawn. To me, it's little wonder that when such people opine, they say their share of other head-scratching stuff.

And Madison, who I disagree with a fair share of times, is hardly some one-dimensional stereotype fitting in with how you presented (wording and context) the typical "you liberals" slam (as would be the "you right wingers") when aimed at most specific tailgate posters (including you I'd hope).

[Thirtyfive2seven]

Ok. Now I'll get to you.

First, I'll now apply this more seriously this time, but also to where it belongs (per your reply to me):

"Be sure to be as absolutely full of sefl-seriosity as possible."

And per your other comments, here's one I typed that was going to post to Madison after reading your earlier posts a bit ago but didn't post (I do that a lot).

And Madison, who I disagree with a fair share of times, is hardly some one-dimensional stereotype fitting in with how you presented (wording and context) the typical "you liberals" slam (as would be the "you right wingers") when aimed at most specific tailgate posters (including you I'd hope).

I completely agree with you and I have apologized to him. that was completely stupid for me to say. Sometimes when arguing with people on these points I fail to realize that not everyone is all in when it comes to Obama and his policies and I should listen to what each individual has to say regarding a subject before labeling them as such

[Jumbo]

No, it's because I don't want to argue with you. Period. It's a complete waste of my time. I said what I wanted to say and I can point back to hundreds of specific links. I don't just make this stuff up Like I said previously, I listen to all the media and make up my own mind. Have you ever listened to rush limbaugh? You'd be too scared that you would agree with him I think. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-320018235803683802

Seeing what you just posted, I just erased mine (which was not that mean or anything).

[Thirtyfive2seven]

Jumbo, I probably deserved it for jumping on Madison without knowing him. For the record I'm against Government restricting our freedoms. I want as little government interaction as possible.

[Madison Redskin]

And Madison, who I disagree with a fair share of times, is hardly some one-dimensional stereotype fitting in with how you presented (wording and context) the typical "you liberals" slam (as would be the "you right wingers") when aimed at most specific tailgate posters (including you I'd hope).

Jumbo:

You strike me as a bright fellow. So, it surprises me that you are wrong a fair share of times. :pfft:

Thirtyfive2seven:

No apologies are necessary. I can see why you might assume I am some Obamaniac, even if that assumption is wrong. I tend to hop the DMZ between the GOP and DNC from time to time, but I have been spending more time on the DNC side of the border lately. And, admittedly, I tend to get a bit aggressive when posters whip out the "socialist" or "fascist" labels when they are applied to persons who I perceive as falling within the mainstream (e.g., Obama and Bush II). No harm, no foul ... but I still stand by my position that it's unreasonable to call Obama a socialist or to get worked up over the "fair share" talking point. In short, AND :moon:

[Jumbo]

Jumbo, I probably deserved it for jumping on Madison without knowing him. For the record I'm against Government restricting our freedoms. I want as little government interaction as possible.

I relate. I may not know how to fix everything that goes awry with my car, but when Cletus Bofester is the only mechanic in town, I'd rather do it myself.

[Corcaigh]

you with alternative ways of thinking from other websites because they will be from such sites that you obviously won't be caught dead reading such as Fox news, Mark Levin, Rush Limbaugh, the conservative thinker, the heritage foundation, etc. Then you will have arguments for each and every single one of those sites and why they are anti Obama. What's the point?

If Obama is, in your words, such a "radical left wing ideologue", then the text from speeches he delivered should be enough to make your case without resorting to sites which have an obvious bias.