Another insurance issue (homeonwers)

[jaybrant]

I have been with State Auto for over 10 years. They have been the only insurance carrier that I have had since I was old enough to drive.

When I purchased my home a few years ago, I decided to go with them for my homeowners insurance also. Last year, I had a few changes in my life and I decided to move out of that home and in with my pregnant girlfriend (bigger house, better area, etc.). The insurance company was aware of this, I let them know as soon as this happened.

About 6 months ago my mom and her husband came to me asking for help because they were in a bad way. Long story short, I let them "rent" my house. It wasn't a legal rental, they just paid what they could, when they could. They split up and both decided to leave the house. Her husband first, and then my mom a couple weeks ago. I swung by the house to see her off and make sure they weren't leaving it a mess.

First thing I notice when I walk in is the baseboard heaters are gone. I question my mom about this. "_____ said you said it was ok and he took them out. Oh, and he also took out the gas furnace". I immediately called and filed a police for theft. The following Monday I called my insurance company and filed a claim.

They basically told me that since he is considered "family" they most likely won't be able to cover the loss, which makes no sense to me. If they had burned it down, it would have been covered. Since he intentionally stole everything there probably isn't anything they can do. I wonder if there's anyway to convince them that he accidentally stole the stuff.

Yesterday, I get a letter letting me know that my insurance is being cancelled because the homeowner is no longer residing in the residence. Something that I had already made them aware of. Gotta love insurance companies.

I know this is kinda long but I just needed to rant. To those who read this. Thanks for listening lol.

[Dan T.]

I'd be more pissed at your stepdad than your insurance company. He sounds like an absolute *******, and I'd go after him hard.

[Kosher Ham]

You got burned. And you probably partially messed up any claim to be had.

You really have nothing to fall back on since you never made it a contract rental. If you had and they could still pay what they could, at the least you could probably go after him.

If they had burned it down and they were there under those circumstances...you still would have been screwed.

Fix and sell or fix and move back.

Good Luck buddy.

[Dan T.]

You got burned. And you probably partially messed up any claim to be had.

You really have nothing to fall back on since you never made it a contract rental. If you had and they could still pay what they could, at the least you could probably go after him.

If they had burned it down and they were there under those circumstances...you still would have been screwed.

Fix and sell or fix and move back.

Good Luck buddy.

This is incorrect. He might be out of luck regarding insurance, but lack of a formal contract isn't a license for the guy to vandalize and steal property. He can still go after the guy through the courts.

[rictus58]

When it comes to family, most companies will force you to deal with them (the family). Your sister uses your credit card and spends $3k, you'll need to take her to court to get restitution. The credit card companies will NOT get in the middle of that. Even with a police report.

Insurance will clearl spell out what's covered and what isn't in the policy. A vacant home is not covered. You'll need to specifically get insurance for an unoccupied house.

[jaybrant]

This is incorrect. He might be out of luck regarding insurance, but lack of a formal contract isn't a license for the guy to vandalize and steal property. He can still go after the guy through the courts.

This is correct. I am definitely going after him to get what I can. And yeah.. I should have had a contract but it was my mom.. Didn't think in a million years that this would happen. Learned a lesson though.

I can understand why they aren't going to cover the loss. I can kinda see where they are coming from. What I'm more irritated about is the fact that they're dropping me for something that they were already aware of.

[Kosher Ham]

I said he could go after him. Geez guys.

[mcterry7]

This is correct. I am definitely going after him to get what I can. And yeah.. I should have had a contract but it was my mom.. Didn't think in a million years that this would happen. Learned a lesson though.

I can understand why they aren't going to cover the loss. I can kinda see where they are coming from. What I'm more irritated about is the fact that they're dropping me for something that they were already aware of.

The reason they are dropping you is the vacancy of the home. Most insurance companies will not provide coverage for a vacant property because of the increased chance of a loss. They became aware of the vacancy because of the claim, correct me if I'm wrong but you informed your agent not the company directly. The agent probably kept this information to himself because he knew what the reprocussions would be. My advice would be have a buddy or relative move back into the home and change the policy type to a Landlord's policy which is written for the home itself and takes into account that tenant's will be residing in the home.

[jaybrant]

If they had burned it down and they were there under those circumstances...you still would have been screwed. .

Actually.. What I was told is that if they would have burned the house down (accidentally) then the insurance would have covered the loss, even without a contract in place because my family is covered under the policy.

---------- Post added January-10th-2012 at 01:06 PM ----------

The reason they are dropping you is the vacancy of the home. Most insurance companies will not provide coverage for a vacant property because of the increased chance of a loss. They became aware of the vacancy because of the claim, correct me if I'm wrong but you informed your agent not the company directly. The agent probably kept this information to himself because he knew what the reprocussions would be. My advice would be have a buddy or relative move back into the home and change the policy type to a Landlord's policy which is written for the home itself and takes into account that tenant's will be residing in the home.

Thanks for the advice.. No more family though lol... I do have someone lined up to rent the house as soon as I get it cleaned up. Yes, not only did he (they?) steal my stuff but they also trashed the place before they left. I see myself as a good guy and try to help people when I am able but this definitely took a toll. I've been screwed quite a few times while trying to help friends, but this was family. If they could do this then I don't even know.

[Dan T.]

Thanks for the advice.. No more family though lol... I do have someone lined up to rent the house as soon as I get it cleaned up. Yes, not only did he (they?) steal my stuff but they also trashed the place before they left. I see myself as a good guy and try to help people when I am able but this definitely took a toll. I've been screwed quite a few times while trying to help friends, but this was family. If they could do this then I don't even know.

There seems to be more of the story we're not hearing, and it's understandable if you don't want to share. But why would your mom and your mom's husband **** up your house like that? Were they angry at you? Why would your mom tolerate that destruction? Do you know where the husband/jerk is now?

It seems like there's a weird family dynamic going on that you need to unburden yourself about. And this is just the place to do it.

[twa]

I don't see why they would not cover the theft part if you file criminal charges and follow thrut, trashing it out is doubtful since it is more subjective

unless of course they can void the coverage for you not living there,not simply drop after the fact

notifying the agent should be considered notifying the company

if not you should be entitled to a refund of payments

or am I all wet???

[Kilmer17]

You have a couple of issues going on.

1 regarding the occupancy of the house. Your home was almost certainly insured under a policy on what is known as an HO3 homeowner form. Those policies require that the owner reside in the house either as a primary or as a secondary residence. Once the company found out that you werent living there anymore, they (correctly) cancelled that policy. The issue is that YOUR AGENT should have cancelled it when you moved out and written you an appropriate Vacant Dwelling, or subsequenlty a Tenant Occupied policy (Various forms could be used for either, but most likely a DP3 form). You should call the agent and ask him or her why they didnt make this change when you notified them of the change in occupancy.

2- Unfortunately, since you still had the wrong policy covering the house, their is no coverage for the loss you described. IF however, you had had the appropriate Tenant Occupied policy, the theft or vandalism of the property would have been covered. If you are certain that you notified your agent about moving out and having tenants, then you should notify him or her that you will filing a claim against the agencies E&O policy. That will be your only recourse outside of pursuing the ******* who did it.

[jaybrant]

There seems to be more of the story we're not hearing, and it's understandable if you don't want to share. But why would your mom and your mom's husband **** up your house like that? Were they angry at you? Why would your mom tolerate that destruction? Do you know where the husband/jerk is now?

It seems like there's a weird family dynamic going on that you need to unburden yourself about. And this is just the place to do it.

My mom has always been the type to take the side of the man that she's with (She's had 3 husbands) over her 5 kids. My brother and sister haven't spoken to her in years because of this actually. So, that would explain the sitting back and letting him do whatever.

I don't think they were mad at me, at least I didn't give them a reason to be.

And maybe I didn't explain the "trashed the house" thing too well.. The actual house is fine but apparently they lived like pigs. The walls are nasty from cigarette smoke. Trash and items that they didn't want to take with them just everywhere throughout the house. I worked on cleaning up this past Saturday and I took at least 10 industrial sized garbage bags of nothing but trash out of the house and I'm not finished.

It definitely sucks man.. I did everything I could to help them out and this is what happened. Leaving the house a wreck really ticked me off but I could have gotten over that. But to steal my property to make some money when I'm the reason they had a roof over their heads kills me.

And I have an idea where he is.. The general area anway. It's a pretty small town so word gets around. The police know everything that I know so I'm just playing the waiting game.

[hockeysc23]

Sorry for the whole ordeal. You probably already learned this lesson the hard way but ALWAYS use a contract almost specifically for family. It helps ensure that no one uses anyone else in the name of family.

I do contract work for my brother's company but we make sure everything is in writing. Covers both of ourselves.

[jaybrant]

You have a couple of issues going on.

1 regarding the occupancy of the house. Your home was almost certainly insured under a policy on what is known as an HO3 homeowner form. Those policies require that the owner reside in the house either as a primary or as a secondary residence. Once the company found out that you werent living there anymore, they (correctly) cancelled that policy. The issue is that YOUR AGENT should have cancelled it when you moved out and written you an appropriate Vacant Dwelling, or subsequenlty a Tenant Occupied policy (Various forms could be used for either, but most likely a DP3 form). You should call the agent and ask him or her why they didnt make this change when you notified them of the change in occupancy.

2- Unfortunately, since you still had the wrong policy covering the house, their is no coverage for the loss you described. IF however, you had had the appropriate Tenant Occupied policy, the theft or vandalism of the property would have been covered. If you are certain that you notified your agent about moving out and having tenants, then you should notify him or her that you will filing a claim against the agencies E&O policy. That will be your only recourse outside of pursuing the ******* who did it.

I definitely remember talking to the agent when I moved out. The only thing that he was concerned with was finding out who my girlfriend had auto/home insurance with. I'm not into real estate, so I had no idea that I had to have a different type of policy if I wasn't going to reside in the house. Now I know, and knowing is half the battle I suppose.

[Kilmer17]

I definitely remember talking to the agent when I moved out. The only thing that he was concerned with was finding out who my girlfriend had auto/home insurance with. I'm not into real estate, so I had no idea that I had to have a different type of policy if I wasn't going to reside in the house. Now I know, and knowing is half the battle I suppose.

You should still call the agent and ask them to check their notes from around that date. If the agent is using a policy and document management system, they SHOULD have notes when you called even if they dont have the specifics. And if you are positive you told him or her, then press the issue. Ask them why you werent made aware of changes to a policy when the occupance changed. Mistakes can happen in an agency, which is why we carry Errors and Omissions Insurance. So we are covered in these types of situations.

FWIW, this is something that everyone should always ask their prospective agent when they are buying a policy. Ask them how they manage their policies and systems. If they have a bunch of old file cabinets and a paper trail....RUNNNNNNNNN

[HOF44]

Man, props to you for coming from that kind of background and having your own house and even trying to help out. I can't even imagine having a parent that would do that, and how it would affect you. My parents would have given anything they had to help me in any way. And would never have done anything to hurt me.

Rough deal.

[jaybrant]

You should still call the agent and ask them to check their notes from around that date. If the agent is using a policy and document management system, they SHOULD have notes when you called even if they dont have the specifics. And if you are positive you told him or her, then press the issue. Ask them why you werent made aware of changes to a policy when the occupance changed. Mistakes can happen in an agency, which is why we carry Errors and Omissions Insurance. So we are covered in these types of situations.

FWIW, this is something that everyone should always ask their prospective agent when they are buying a policy. Ask them how they manage their policies and systems. If they have a bunch of old file cabinets and a paper trail....RUNNNNNNNNN

I'll definitely check into it.. Thanks for the help man.. And this agency consists of 3 employees.. 2 agents and a secretary. Pretty small place but they're very friendly and know who you are when you walk in the door which is what I really liked about them.

---------- Post added January-10th-2012 at 04:33 PM ----------

Man, props to you for coming from that kind of background and having your own house and even trying to help out. I can't even imagine having a parent that would do that, and how it would affect you. My parents would have given anything they had to help me in any way. And would never have done anything to hurt me.

Rough deal.

Yeah.. It's not a good feeling to know that your own mother would do this to you. She's been like this forever though. Hasn't worked, relies on others for everything, welfare abuser. She's still my mom though so I wanted to help. I had grandparents that practically raised me and taught me just about everything I know about the "real world". I thank God every day that they were in my life.

[rictus58]

You should still call the agent and ask them to check their notes from around that date. If the agent is using a policy and document management system, they SHOULD have notes when you called even if they dont have the specifics. And if you are positive you told him or her, then press the issue. Ask them why you werent made aware of changes to a policy when the occupance changed. Mistakes can happen in an agency, which is why we carry Errors and Omissions Insurance. So we are covered in these types of situations.

FWIW, this is something that everyone should always ask their prospective agent when they are buying a policy. Ask them how they manage their policies and systems. If they have a bunch of old file cabinets and a paper trail....RUNNNNNNNNN

I work for a large GA, I have one agency who apparently runs his office with a bunch of file cabinets and papers all over. Guess which one has policies cancelling left and right due to non-payment...even when his insured pay him.

[Kilmer17]

I work for a large GA, I have one agency who apparently runs his office with a bunch of file cabinets and papers all over. Guess which one has policies cancelling left and right due to non-payment...even when his insured pay him.

LOL. I know a few like that as well.

And it's crazy. I can prove that it's cheaper to pay for a good management system than it is to use files. We use AMS in our agency and I'd be lost without it.