Mooka Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 2 hours ago, zoony said: Im suggesting that the vast majority of media and liberals are hoping for a disaster, and looking for anything negative they possibly can. Because they are all hysterical *******. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 1 hour ago, PeterMP said: NOBODY! is talking about OR EVER TALKED ABOUT shutting out enemies. There is a difference between shutting people out and requiring some really BASIC pre-conditions before meeting with the President of the US. Just because we did something in the past (supported dictators), does not mean that it is good policy. I don't think anybody had an issue with opening an embassy in Cuba. Trump complained about loosening pressure on Cuba, along with many Republicans. I wasn’t crazy about it, but not too upset. Seeing how our staff have been treated there though, and in China recently, the idea of an embassy in NK is kind of scary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 16 minutes ago, DogofWar1 said: If NK believes the world is shifting from Western democracy centric to China-centric, then why would you ever give up anything to the US? If you think the world's center of power is shifting your job as NK is to run out the clock until the US is no longer capable of attacking. For all they know Trump will be gone in 2 years. I can't expect NK to stop shooting test missiles over SK and Japan if we keep doing those exercises (which for a military like ours I doubt will be caught completely unprepared for just because of stopping war games). I made through a WP article on this, its first meeting, but this reminds me of the Iran deal where the primary goal was to prevent a war with Iran, not westernize them. I can see them talking about embassies before a hard date to get rid of the nukes, I can also see this relationship in the lukewarm state its in for the next president to come in and take it from there. It's hard for us to take the moral highground in these negotiations right now, especially given our hypocricy in regards to our trade relationship with China despite their numerous Human Rights violations. This deal will not be perfect, I said from get-go I would be shocked if NK actually gave up their nukes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 1 hour ago, Cooked Crack said: Rubio can't be this dense, right? I can't believe he can send this out without seeing the parallels with Trump. Maybe he does and that’s why he said it. But maybe not. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted June 12, 2018 Author Share Posted June 12, 2018 updated the thread title. "Dear Leader" has been gone for a while now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 Basically we gave NK some things they’ve been thirsting after for decades for some likely empty promises that they’ve given us before. We should negotiate with them after thorough preparations and with our allies and without going down on their murderous leader with the entire world watching. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo2365 Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 (edited) Hmm. Interesting article from someone who was set to be our SK ambassador before he criticized some of the things being said by the admin. Article not quite as glowing as the headline though. I would probably give more credit to SK for the negotiations though, since they have been very consistent on the issue and got most of this rolling. So I’m not sure that Trump really got anything anyone else couln’t have and certainly gave away things we hadn’t so far. I’m not sold on the idea that a personal relationship especially involving someone as erratic as Trump and someone as influenced and controlled as Kim is that helpful, but I suppose it could yield positve results. Probably a better chance that we get played though like we have with Putin. Edited June 12, 2018 by visionary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 3 hours ago, zoony said: Im suggesting that the vast majority of media and liberals are hoping for a disaster, and looking for anything negative they possibly can. Because they are all hysterical *******. 1. You don't speak for yourself terribly well. Don't try to speak for others. 2. I was in favor of changing tactics with Cuba and Iran simply because the old strategy was not working, and because I think both those countries could be pushed in a positive direction with engagement with the US. I think a change in tactics with NK is worthwhile as the old strategy had got us to this point. But the idea that NK is ready for any meaningful internal change is nonsense. 3. There is a way to do this without giving NK the propaganda win of the century. Obama should have been more careful where he stood in Cuba. But decorating the room with NK and US flags and giving Kim the ol' Trump thumbs up and then having the freaking President say that he "cares about his people" is insane. We just utterly legitimized the most brutal backwards police state in the world in one day. That's stunning. 4. And we did this to get the same document we always get from NK in exchange for the president calling military exercises "war games" which legitimizes every criticism of not only NK but China. We could have got the same result from Pompeo and some under-secretary meeting in Beijing without the endless propaganda victories for NK. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, visionary said: Trump complained about loosening pressure on Cuba, along with many Republicans. I wasn’t crazy about it, but not too upset. Seeing how our staff have been treated there though, and in China recently, the idea of an embassy in NK is kind of scary. Given what has happened to our people in Cuba, I wouldn't be against considering pulling them out. But at the time that Obama moved to start to normalize relationships with Cuba, I wasn't opposed to opening an embassy there. I didn't like Obama's visit. We can talk to countries and have embassies there without granting them Presidential visits (without getting some demonstrable concessions first). There was an implication by @zoony(and others) that there is nothing in between not talking to our enemies and legitimizing them with a Presidential visit, which is ridiculous. I can be for having an embassy in some Cuba (or NK) and be against Obama (Trump) visiting Cuba and legitimizing Rual Castro's (Un's) rule as a leader of Cuba (NK). Edited June 12, 2018 by PeterMP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 31 minutes ago, visionary said: Hmm. Interesting article from someone who was set to be our SK ambassador before he criticized some of the things being said by the admin. Article not quite as glowing as the headline though. I would probably give more credit to SK for the negotiations though, since they have been very consistent on the issue and got most of this rolling. So I’m not sure that Trump really got anything anyone else couln’t have and certainly gave away things we hadn’t so far. I’m not sold on the idea that a personal relationship especially involving someone as erratic as Trump and someone as influenced and controlled as Kim is that helpful, but I suppose it could yield positve results. Probably a better chance that we get played though like we have with Putin. If we were at the brink of war it is because Trump's rhetoric got us there. If you've created a problem, then you get/deserve not credit for fixing it (while giving things up that no US President has given up before). 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 32 minutes ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said: could have got the same result from Pompeo and some under-secretary meeting in Beijing without the endless propaganda victories for NK. Yah, now we are worried about the NK proaganda machine and what they might say I think we are done here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 (edited) 16 minutes ago, zoony said: Yah, now we are worried about the NK proaganda machine and what they might say I think we are done here. You missed the point (not surprisingly). It isn't anything the North Koreans have said, it is what the President of the United States said that is the concern. (especially how the comment about Uns and our military exercises look in contrast to Trump's comments about Trudeau just the day before to everybody in the world. Un is talented and cares about his people. Trudeau is weak and dishonest. Nothing there requires the action of the NK propaganda machine. Those are messages the rest of the world can read without any assistance from the NK propaganda machine) Edited June 12, 2018 by PeterMP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, zoony said: Yah, now we are worried about the NK proaganda machine and what they might say I think we are done here. They are going to say whatever they say. But I didn't like the Obama picture in front of Che. And the Right wanted him impeached for that. The message of this week is truly awful. Go to the G7 and don't kiss Trump's ass, and he will make it his mission to destroy your economy. (Canada). Develop nuclear weapons and run a police state, and you will get treated like a rock star. I honestly don't know what our foreign policy is right now. We're moving towards severe isolationism with the West and alliances with Saudi Arabia, Russia, and God knows who else. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 (edited) 22 minutes ago, zoony said: Yah, now we are worried about the NK proaganda machine and what they might say I think we are done here. as we've seen in this country, propaganda works. And right now, because Trump said so, it's working on his base towards a country who is currently in a state of war in which we are involved directly. Of many things we fight over in this country, NK was one thing we ALL pretty much agreed on. Bad guys. Enemies. ) The level of stupid in this country was enough to give an obvious fool like Donald Trump credibility. Make that global. What we have seen in the last several years is a concerted effort by the worstof the worst to take over ownership of the planet, and knock the US off the top. They are succeeding. NK is part of that group, and what we have done, like it or not, is legitimize. (Shaking hands is one thing. "He loves his peo-ple.".. seriously. What better propaganda than the US OKing what he has done and will continue to do to his slave population? Trump just looked away, and as our rep,, so did we all. we don't even see it now. he loves them.) all well and good if something actually comes of it... that we or what used to be our allies get for allowing the NKs to bully their way into the arena. But i highly doubt we will. SInce this started to form, the message outside of the cheerleading echo box has been the same. Don't give away and get nothing. He did. he gave away propaganda, which is powerful, and he gave away "war games" .. which for our side, was powerful. An annual show of force in the face of a still belligerent enemy... and an equal show of support to our ally who relies on us for safety. We're likely going to abandon SK and we know what'll happen when we do. ~Bang Edited June 12, 2018 by Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 3 hours ago, zoony said: You made a joke about a mcdonalds in pyongyang. Think about the kind of pressure that would put on this regime. Also, think about the pressure this meeting is putting on china. NK has been a pawn that china has leveraged for the past 40 years to win trade and other negotiations with the west. Ultimately, I think Donald Trump is incapable of doing anything but these photo-op styles summit's that accomplish nothing long-term. Denuclearization isn't happening. And normalization seems like a pipe dream considering we are entering a trade war with our allies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 What is happening at 10 seconds in in the background? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, No Excuses said: Ultimately, I think Donald Trump is incapable of doing anything but these photo-op styles summit's that accomplish nothing long-term. Denuclearization isn't happening. And normalization seems like a pipe dream considering we are entering a trade war with our allies. Counterpoint: NK is vey much down with the whole “enforced monogamy” thing, so props to Zoomy for his consistency and sticking to his core values. And now that the whole NK thing is behind us we can turn our attention the gravest threat facing our nation...sexually adventurous Freshmen!! Edited June 12, 2018 by TryTheBeal! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogofWar1 Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 The funny thing about the above video is that Kim is believed to be competent if not fluent in English, since he was schooled at an international school in Switzerland. That look of bewilderment on hos face isn't because he doesn't know what is being said. It's because he does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 (edited) The politburo has spoken. Edited June 12, 2018 by visionary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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