Gibbs Hog Heaven Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 I'm not sure what use even 'being a body' is if it's one you can never use, you know? I hear ya' man, and I'm as perplexed as you going off the beat guys who've seen him out there at the Park. Just relaying what I've heard a few guys say. Maybe there's been little else out there to warrant a 'project' on the PS, shrugs; so we've stuck with him just because. Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus T Firefly Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 I hear ya' man, and I'm as perplexed as you going off the beat guys who've seen him out there at the Park. Just relaying what I've heard a few guys say.Maybe there's been little else out there to warrant a 'project' on the PS, shrugs; so we've stuck with him just because. Hail. Probably not worth this much discussion..... But even if the regular QBs get hurt, you would think they would just sign someone to play the next week anyway, so... a complete waste. I'd still start him the last 2 games though. :evilg: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs Hog Heaven Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 I'd still start him the last 2 games though. :evilg: 3 ..... just to totally protect our interests. Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forever21 Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 The board will always still go crazy because people will always confuse the acuity of their analyses, what they personally want and/or think should be, with reality and how the universe really works. This line pretty much send me in to a fit of laughter and clapping. RGIII couldn't be further from a sure thing. And neither could Barkley or Jones or any of the other QB's that will go behind Luck. But I think we will draft a QB in the top 5. And I think that whomever it may be has a good chance of succeeding and being our franchise QB for the next 10-15 years. I don't know which one I like more. It's so easy to begin picking apart all of their games. I trust our FO and the Shanahan's to make the right call and hopefully not just sit back but be aggressive in going after the guy they grade best for this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitman#21 Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 That's why i will be thrilled if the Skins win tomorrow. They can always trade up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus T Firefly Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 3 ..... just to totally protect our interests. Hail. I just don't see any way we beat NY anyway. And it's obviously too late to convince Shanny to change starters for this week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoudMouth12thMan Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 Unless we trade up, it's quite possible that we would be odd man out (assuming we pick in #4 spot) Luck, Barkley, and RG3 will be gone before we get a chance. Other teams know we need a QB and may make some interesting trades to move ahead of us. No. If we want someone i.e. RGIII, we have the draft ammo to go get him and we're close to the top of the board...for now. Advantage Skins unless Cleveland gets in the mix but they'd be stupid to draft a QB in the first round. Stupid. They need so much help on O and not at the QB spot IMO...at least not with their 1st round picks next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 It's not so much a flawed route as another very possible route. I didn't say the route was flawed, I said the logic behind it was flawed. - As mentioned before, it means that if the teams picking in the top 3 don't want any of the QBs that means they feel they don't need to stay where they are and will be willing to drop down, and drop down significantly (5-7 spots). - It also means that every front office in the NFL has their draft boards exactly the same when it comes to the top three spots...that NONE of them think RG or Barkley are not among the top 3 talents coming out in the draft. It means believing that none of the teams drafting in the top 3 spots have other players ranked higher than those two QBs. - It also means that it's quite common for teams with a top 3 draft pick to trade down. So common that all three teams in the top 3 might end up trading down...as well as meaning that all three would trade down with teams other than the Redskins. - Lastly, it means that the whole "You need as high a draft pick as possible" mantra is garbage, as the teams WITH the highest draft picks as possible are all suddenly more than willing to part with them. Indy need to get their rebuild up and running. If they do indeed stick with Peyton, then I'll be shocked if Polian doesn't take all he can for the top pick. As we've seen with damn near every team that needs to rebuild, they almost never trade away a chance of drafting in the top 3-5. How many rebuilding teams do you know that give up a top 5 draft spot, nonetheless a top 3 draft pick? How many times have the Lions or Rams traded down from the top 3 or top 5 during their rebuilds? And if Lucks in play, he'll have MORE than his share of offers. Regardless of what the Rams and Vikings may or not do; Indianapolis is looking more and more likely to turn it into a bidding war. And if a teams desperate enough for Luck, you can bet your sweet ass they'll be desperate enough to test the other two's resolve over Griffin. Every year teams test the waters for trade up/down scenarios. That's not some alarming, once-a-decade thing that's gonna happen this upcoming draft lol...yet we have posters on here who are abso-stinking-lutely, undeniably convinced that picking at the #4 spot means the Skins don't have any chance whatsoever for drafting a QB. That's nonsense. And even IF any of the teams picking in the top 3 spots did want to trade down, they would be FAR more willing to trade down with a team picking #4 or #5...so (yet again), it's absolute nonsense for anyone to claim the Skins picking at #4 are suddenly left out in the cold when it comes to being able to draft one of the top QBs...if anything, your earlier scenario paints a team picking at #4 as having the BEST chance of trading up to get their QB. When Casserly traded with Ditka, we only ended up trading down 2 spots, making it far more likely that we could still get our man (Bailey). If Ditka's 1st round pick was at #15 instead, I doubt Casserly makes that trade, as the GMs picking before him passed on it as well. Indy, Minny and St. Louis are NOT gonna pass on the chance to get "their guy"...and with a top 3 pick all but guaranteed for those teams they already have a guy targeted that they have no problem using that pick on. If any of them trade down, it's gonna be with the belief that the trade down allows them to still get their guy. That utterly meaningless, outside of pride, victory in Seattle a few weeks back has made this draft more than likely all the costlier in terms of what we're gona' have to give up.Hail. Why is it the Seattle win that gets singed out? Why not the first Giants win, or the Rams win or the Cardinals win? Each of those wins played the same role in the overly-dire scenario you and others keep painting...wasn't the Giants or Rams win just as "utterly meaningless"? Aren't those wins little more than "feel good" wins now? Either every win holds value, or none of them do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecardiacrll Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 I didn't say the route was flawed, I said the logic behind it was flawed.- As mentioned before, it means that if the teams picking in the top 3 don't want any of the QBs that means they feel they don't need to stay where they are and will be willing to drop down, and drop down significantly (5-7 spots). - It also means that every front office in the NFL has their draft boards exactly the same when it comes to the top three spots...that NONE of them think RG or Barkley are not among the top 3 talents coming out in the draft. It means believing that none of the teams drafting in the top 3 spots have other players ranked higher than those two QBs. - It also means that it's quite common for teams with a top 3 draft pick to trade down. So common that all three teams in the top 3 might end up trading down...as well as meaning that all three would trade down with teams other than the Redskins. - Lastly, it means that the whole "You need as high a draft pick as possible" mantra is garbage, as the teams WITH the highest draft picks as possible are all suddenly more than willing to part with them. As we've seen with damn near every team that needs to rebuild, they almost never trade away a chance of drafting in the top 3-5. How many rebuilding teams do you know that give up a top 5 draft spot, nonetheless a top 3 draft pick? How many times have the Lions or Rams traded down from the top 3 or top 5 during their rebuilds? Every year teams test the waters for trade up/down scenarios. That's not some alarming, once-a-decade thing that's gonna happen this upcoming draft lol...yet we have posters on here who are abso-stinking-lutely, undeniably convinced that picking at the #4 spot means the Skins don't have any chance whatsoever for drafting a QB. That's nonsense. And even IF any of the teams picking in the top 3 spots did want to trade down, they would be FAR more willing to trade down with a team picking #4 or #5...so (yet again), it's absolute nonsense for anyone to claim the Skins picking at #4 are suddenly left out in the cold when it comes to being able to draft one of the top QBs...if anything, your earlier scenario paints a team picking at #4 as having the BEST chance of trading up to get their QB. When Casserly traded with Ditka, we only ended up trading down 2 spots, making it far more likely that we could still get our man (Bailey). If Ditka's 1st round pick was at #15 instead, I doubt Casserly makes that trade, as the GMs picking before him passed on it as well. Indy, Minny and St. Louis are NOT gonna pass on the chance to get "their guy"...and with a top 3 pick all but guaranteed for those teams they already have a guy targeted that they have no problem using that pick on. If any of them trade down, it's gonna be with the belief that the trade down allows them to still get their guy. Why is it the Seattle win that gets singed out? Why not the first Giants win, or the Rams win or the Cardinals win? Each of those wins played the same role in the overly-dire scenario you and others keep painting...wasn't the Giants or Rams win just as "utterly meaningless"? Aren't those wins little more than "feel good" wins now? Either every win holds value, or none of them do. Califan007 Ilove reading your thoughtson draft trades. My question to you is will things be different because of the rookie pay scale. I agree in the past nobody traded to go in the top 3 I always thought it was because of money because your not just gonna trade a slew of picks away but your gonna have to sign the player to a huge contract. Do you think this year things could change because of the pay scale? In my opinion if this was last year we would be gauranteed RG3 at the 4 spot. This year with all the unknown about trading with this new pay scale I'm worried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs Hog Heaven Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 Oh Cali. Why you feel the need to continue to debate every opposing post to you to the death is beyond me. I'll refrain from boring folk in a round of 'he said/ she said' as it's repetitive and been done to death on here. I counter your above post with the opposing view for trading up and needing the higher draft pick; you counter with more of the same for doing the complete opposite. It gets monotonous and utterly boring. I'll take the last paragraph on the why's and wherefores of a dead game, in every aspect to all intents and purposes; as opposed to earlier wins when the season was alive as you just being pernickety (no S) and obtuse just because; as I know full well your WAY smarter than that. Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrell1106 Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 Laron isn't a bust, he has played lights out, like DPOTY, when he was healthy, with a full offseason he will heal up and continue to be the beast he always was. I don't get why people don't like him here, I love him and have his jersey. Huh??? I have Jason Campbell's jersey and he's still average at best. Sorry but LL is a disappointment. Gotta stay healthy (period). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs Hog Heaven Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 Huh??? I have Jason Campbell's jersey and he's still average at best. Sorry but LL is a disappointment. Gotta stay healthy (period). And next year will be the same again. He has achiles surgery, although not a full tear, he'll miss OTA's and more importantly camp. Even if it doesn't carry over into the first month or so of the season (it probably will as your looking at a year or so to recover from that surgery); he's not gona' be in football shape and playing catch-up again. With not holding him back and sorting it out this year, we've set ourselves back two years with Landry. It might well be time to cut ties. Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsfan07 Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 If we lose out, we WILL take RGIII at #4 and that's basically all it boils down too. None of these dumb "well what if another team trades up to #1,2 or 3 scenarios will happen. Because every team picking in the top three NEEDS a player that they won't be able to get if they drop down. 1) Colts - Luck 2) Vikes - Kahlil (sp) 3) Rams - Blackmon 4) Skins - RGIII That's how it's gonna play out if the season ends with those 3 teams being ahead of us. I'm not 100% sure, but it's a damn near guarantee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrell1106 Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 And next year will be the same again. He has achiles surgery, although not a full tear, he'll miss OTA's and more importantly camp. Even if it doesn't carry over into the first month or so of the season (it probably will as your looking at a year or so to recover from that surgery); he's not gona' be in football shape and playing catch-up again. With not holding him back and sorting it out this year, we've set ourselves back two years with Landry. It might well be time to cut ties. Hail. No argument here. Both Lavar and LL will be those "I wonder if..." scenarios. Although I think LL has a lot more left in the tank so his story is probably a few seasons away from being finished. ---------- Post added December-18th-2011 at 11:28 AM ---------- If we lose out, we WILL take RGIII at #4 and that's basically all it boils down too. None of these dumb "well what if another team trades up to #1,2 or 3 scenarios will happen. Because every team picking in the top three NEEDS a player that they won't be able to get if they drop down.1) Colts - Luck 2) Vikes - Kahlil (sp) 3) Rams - Blackmon 4) Skins - RGIII That's how it's gonna play out if the season ends with those 3 teams being ahead of us. I'm not 100% sure, but it's a damn near guarantee. I hope you're right but you seriously think the Vikes like Ponder so much not to think about Barkley or RGIII? The Rams and Bradford are probably gonna stay together especially if Spags is out as all is expected (and probably headed back to Phili). I truly think the Vikes are the wild card. If we happen to win these last few games of which something tells me we will then all bets are off. Trading up to the top 4 spots takes waaay too many draft picks and huge balls. Thankfully our coach, like it or not, has both of 'em so time will tell!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasRoane Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 Someone posted a few clips of him earlier this year and there wasn't much passing. So I thought he was just another running qb. But after seeing more this kid can really play the game! He's a passer who can run. The boot series would be on steroids. And the kid is 'super smart.'. Sadly we are gonna have to lose out. The vikes game scares me. One more win could drop us out of the top ten. But if The Shanny's really believe In him then trade the draft to get him. And for those of you who don't get it I'm sick and tired of looking for a starting QB since 1992!!! Its possible to find a player in all other positions in free agency. It's pretty rare to find a qb tho. Brees being the rare exception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrell1106 Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 Someone posted a few clips of him earlier this year and there wasn't much passing. So I thought he was just another running qb. But after seeing more this kid can really play the game! He's a passer who can run. The boot series would be on steroids. And the kid is 'super smart.'. Sadly we are gonna have to lose out. The vikes game scares me. One more win could drop us out of the top ten. But if The Shanny's really believe him then trade the draft to get him. And for those of you who don't get it I'm sick and tired of looking for a starting QB since 1992!!! Its possible to find a player in all other positions in free agency. It's pretty rare to find a qb tho. Brees being the rare exception. I think Shaub is just below Brees and company. Plummer was also decent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhi4582 Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 We better lose today. Sure we can trade up but I don't want to sacrifice a high second rounder to win a meaningless game in December. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWil Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 It's not so much a flawed route as another very possible route. Indy need to get their rebuild up and running. If they do indeed stick with Peyton, then I'll be shocked if Polian doesn't take all he can for the top pick. And if Lucks in play, he'll have MORE than his share of offers. Regardless of what the Rams and Vikings may or not do; Indianapolis is looking more and more likely to turn it into a bidding war. And if a teams desperate enough for Luck, you can bet your sweet ass they'll be desperate enough to test the other two's resolve over Griffin.This year is a very special year, and #4 is a VERY precarious place to be sat with what we need and those coming out that make this a very special year. That utterly meaningless, outside of pride, victory in Seattle a few weeks back has made this draft more than likely all the costlier in terms of what we're gona' have to give up. Hail. As awesome as the 4th pick would be, it's possible to be leap frogged twice and have Griffin III and Barkley off the board after Luck. I can tell you right now that would be a SICKENING feeling at #4 overall and the Big Three gone (what the hell do we do now?!?!?!) We've been chasing after Mark Rypien's replacement for 20 years !! We need to do whatever it takes to land Luck, Griffin III or Barkley because all three will be special in their own way. If we need to lose out then do it (that win against Seattle was absolutely meaningless despite what anybody else says.....there is nothing exciting about defeating a mediocre team with a 30 year old reject behind center !) When Luck is selected #1 overall, if a team moves up to #2 for Griffin III, we need to do whatever it takes to get Barkley........get it done! If Barkley doesn't declare for whatever reason; we need to move up to #2 overall.....get it done and secure Griffin III !! If we mess around and win another game sending us to the bottom of the Top 10, move up and secure anyone of the Top 3.....GET IT DONE!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 No way we are beating the Giants' date=' in New Jersey, with them having playoff indications. Minny we might beat. Philly no.[/quote']Thank god we can put this nonsense away. Everyone thinking we couldn't beat a flawed Giants team, the awful Vikings, and the turnover machine Eagles was kidding themselves. fourth smourth in the draft. I want to develop a winning mentality. Today was a good day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowhunter Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 Ok, the die is cast. Who's the 4th or 5th best QB in this years draft. Time to start looking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidGQ Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 Ok, the die is cast. Who's the 4th or 5th best QB in this years draft. Time to start looking If other teams can trade up, why can't we? 2 more weeks to go and the NFL is very unpredictable. A lot of teams won today that they shouldn't, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowhunter Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 If other teams can trade up, why can't we? 2 more weeks to go and the NFL is very unpredictable. A lot of teams won today that they shouldn't, right? Oh we can most certainly trade up, but at what cost?? "Mortgaging the Future" is an oft used term here on ES. Do we have to trade away our "future" in means of draft picks in order to obtain the QB of the "future?" That question didn't need to exist 2 wins ago. Now it looks like we'll be picking between #6-10 (my guess) but possibly even later if we beat Minny. That leaves us in draft limbo. I love the fact that we looked impressive today, making great strides as a team. But today, I'd much rather have taken a hard fought loss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowhunter Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 If other teams can trade up, why can't we? 2 more weeks to go and the NFL is very unpredictable. A lot of teams won today that they shouldn't, right? Oh we can most certainly trade up, but at what cost?? "Mortgaging the Future" is an oft used term here on ES. Do we have to trade away our "future" in means of draft picks in order to obtain the QB of the "future?" That question didn't need to exist 2 wins ago. Now it looks like we'll be picking between #6-10 (my guess) but possibly even later if we beat Minny. That leaves us in draft limbo. I love the fact that we looked impressive today, making great strides as a team. But today, I'd much rather have taken a hard fought loss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveakl Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Here is what I do not get. People are worried about other teams moving up to the (insert pick here) ahead of us. They say that the teams ahead of us will trade down because of the bounty of picks they will be able to command for the ability to draft (insert QB here). Then they say that the Redskins should not move up to the (insert pick here) to draft (insert QB here) because they will be "mortgaging the future" and "giving up too much". So why would people think other teams will do the thing that they think the Redskins would be stupid for doing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidGQ Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Here is what I do not get.People are worried about other teams moving up to the (insert pick here) ahead of us. They say that the teams ahead of us will trade down because of the bounty of picks they will be able to command for the ability to draft (insert QB here). Then they say that the Redskins should not move up to the (insert pick here) to draft (insert QB here) because they will be "mortgaging the future" and "giving up too much". So why would people think other teams will do the thing that they think the Redskins would be stupid for doing? Bingo:) I am in the camp of its okay to lose rest of the season but it feels so good with the win today. We beat the midgets away with our back up oline and rookies!!!!! Imagine where we will be with another solid draft and FA signings next year Still, I have full faith in mike & Bruce. If they feel the need to trade up and get our QB, so be it. There's a reason why we, the fans, have a FT job and not working for NFL teams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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