NYT: Newt, Mitt, Bibi and Vladimir ( THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN ) - Oh No He didn't!!!

[AsburySkinsFan]

But they already overwhelmingly and blindly support the candidate with the R in front of their name.

That doesn't mean they turn out for them....nor does it mean they write their checks for them.

[techboy]

But they already overwhelmingly and blindly support the candidate with the R in front of their name.

They're trying to win the nomination, not the general.

[Predicto]

But they already overwhelmingly and blindly support the candidate with the R in front of their name.

Yes, they do, when they come out to vote.

Moreover, all of the guys we are talking about are desperately trying to BE that candidate with the R in front of their name next fall. So the catering gets even more intense.

[Kilmer17]

When in doubt, follow the money? I guess. But I would also guess that Dems receive as much if not more from the Jewish block.

[SkinsHokieFan]

"It is our true policy to steer clear of permanent alliances with any portion of the foreign world; so far, I mean, as we are now at liberty to do it; for let me not be understood as capable of patronizing infidelity to existing engagements. I hold the maxim no less applicable to public than to private affairs, that honesty is always the best policy. I repeat it, therefore, let those engagements be observed in their genuine sense. But, in my opinion, it is unnecessary and would be unwise to extend them."

George Washington

---------- Post added December-16th-2011 at 04:11 PM ----------

When in doubt, follow the money? I guess. But I would also guess that Dems receive as much if not more from the Jewish block.

Its the evangilical end of the world vote. Lets cut to the chase here, the rapture can't occur unless Israel has all of that land. Duh

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-heilbroner/evangelicals-israel-and-t_b_391351.html

Waiting for Armageddon opens with James and Laura Bagg, an

attractive pair of 30-something jet-propulsion engineers living in Connecticut.

Yes, Evangelical rocket scientists from the Northeast.

"We could be raptured out of this world during this interview," Laura says,

referring to a miracle where all good Christians disappear from earth and

rematerialize in the clouds as chaos seizes the world. "There will be car

crashes and plane crashes. And the people left behind will be asking, 'Are they

coming back for me?'"

Then James Bagg explains that, "You see God has a plan for the world and it

all centers around Israel."

The Baggs are, in a way, typical. Millions of Evangelicals share one

political belief even more sacred perhaps than opposition to abortion or

same-sex marriage: The belief that Israel must remain a Jewish state forever.

If that sounds unfamiliar or contradictory, then you've never spent much time

listening to Evangelicals. End Times theology declares that the Jewish people

must maintain control of Israel and Jerusalem, and retake the Al-Aqsa Mosque

(a/k/a the Dome of the Rock), or Jesus won't return. Period.

[AsburySkinsFan]

When in doubt, follow the money? I guess. But I would also guess that Dems receive as much if not more from the Jewish block.

Without a doubt.

Its the fundamentalist end of the world vote. Lets cut to the chase here, the rapture can't occur unless Israel has all of that land. Duh

If I may offer a word of correction for the sake of clarity. I am an evangelical, but I'm not a fundamentalist.

[Larry]

When in doubt, follow the money? I guess. But I would also guess that Dems receive as much if not more from the Jewish block.

Oh, I think quite a bit more.

[Kilmer17]

Oh, I think quite a bit more.

So, if a group that doesnt blindly support Israel is receiving more money, why would the GOPers do so while receiving less money?

[AsburySkinsFan]

I liked how Bachmann said as she was showing her Jew-cred that she spent a summer working on a kibbutz...Bachmann a self professed socialist hater lived in a socialist commune.....:doh: I guess it didn't take.

[Kilmer17]

The election season is going to be a whole lot less fun once she leaves.

[AsburySkinsFan]

The election season is going to be a whole lot less fun once she leaves.

Yeah Jon Stewart has been dying a little each time one of them drops out. First Trump, then Cain, poor guy will actually have to work to find the crazee before long.

Here it is...classic!

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-december-5-2011/indecision-2012---the-sh-t-s-gettin--real

Here's Stewart's take on the suck-up-fest.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-december-8-2011/the-matzorian-candidate

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Its the evangilical end of the world vote. Lets cut to the chase here, the rapture can't occur unless Israel has all of that land. Duh

Not sure why it took 30 posts for someone to get to the heart of the matter.

[Larry]

Here's Stewart's take on the suck-up-fest.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-december-8-2011/the-matzorian-candidate

Yeah, that was a really good one.

[Thiebear]

Wasn't Israel third on the list for American Support:

South Korea - everything we have to include us manning the DMZ for many many decades

West Germany - everything we have to include lots of bases and troops for many many decades

Israel - lots of money and technology for decades with lots of talk with occasional rebukes.

somehow we don't feel the need to fawn all over south korea.

[Larry]

I think in terms of AID, it's Israel, followed by Egypt. (We paid Egypt to be nice to Israel.)

What you're posting sounds like somebody's counting US military bases in somebody else's country as "support".

[Thiebear]

Its the the most secure support the world has ever seen.

I believe SK recently started paying for it 15billion+?

Imagine if we treated Israel the same as Germany and SK... we would be manning the checkpoints... It would be escalated already and Palestine would be the northern part of Egypt whom would be 1 trillion richer for taking it. Instead we watch from afar and posture every once in a while.

[The Brave Little Toaster Oven]

I was essentially called 'not a real Christian' for correcting an Islamophobist on Thanksgiving for ****ing about halal Turkeys

The Christians that support Israel through everything really creep me out....I've noticed these people tend to be what I consider 'super Christians'. You know, those people that take religion wayyyyy too far.

[JMS]

Well the evidence shows that it DOESNT help get them the Jewish vote, and in fact, may hurt them in that demographic.

It just seems like a dumb thing to do just to do it. There has to be something else going on.

No American politician ever lost an election because they came out too strongly on Israel. And that's really saying something given the unprecidented and whackadoodle foreign policy decisions on Israel from the United States in the last 3 decades.

• Using our UN Veto in defense of Israel more than every other Security Council Member has used their Veto combined since 1980.
  
• Effectively elivating Israel to the status of regional superpower on the backs of the US taxpayer, In 1979 for instance we gave Israel an unprecidented 5 Billion dollars in Aid. Effectively 30% of their GDP...(*)
  
• Unprecidented Aid, ( Fiscal, Military, Political) to Israel over that time period.
  
• Ignoring what was a very damaging spy case conducted by Israel on the US in the late 1980's. (Pollard serving life in prison)
  
• Largely Ignoring another one conducted by Israel in 2002 (Franklin convicted serving 13 years).
  
• Largely ignoring in Sept 2011, one of the top American scientist ever convicted of trying to pass secrets to a foreign government (Israel). (Stewart D. Nozette, currently serving 13 years in prison).
  
• Enduring Arab oil embargo's and Global consternation over our Israeli policies,
  

(*) US Aid to Israel in 79 was 5 billion

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/US-Israel/U.S._Assistance_to_Israel1.html

(*) Israeli GDP in 79 was 17 billion

http://www.indexmundi.com/facts/israel/gdp

Likewise one can definitely come out and site presidents whos margin of victory was smaller than their support generated by their Israel policy. Truman was the first in his first election after having made a decision to recognize and support Israel on May 14,1948.

In a re-election strategy coined by Clark Cliffard, Truman narrowly defeated Dewey in the November 3, 1948 election and his coming out for Israel was part of that strategy.

Today's Israel's support is much broader than it was in Truman's time. Today Israel has strong support with Jews who primarily both vote as a block and Democrat, and absolutely may be in play in 2012 given the current administration which has been cast as shall we say not a rubber stamp for Israel.

But I also don't think you can dismiss the perhaps even more fanatical support for Israel which has sprung up on the Right. Israel is perhaps the second leading issue among evangelicals second to reproduction rights( denying them). I think Newt's and Mitt's stances on Israel are thus a reflection of the political landscape, and I think anybody who would say otherwise is either uninformed or trying to mislead.

I think Newt's over the top boot licking thus was a perfect wedge issue and perfectly executed by Newt. It was a cold political calculation which Newt is famous for making and rather good at making. The calculation is his comments while offensive to some, would garner him significantly more support than would detract votes. History would have to say, Newt is smart, and correct in this calculation.

---------- Post added December-19th-2011 at 01:12 PM ----------

http://www.jta.org/news/article/2011/12/19/3090815/dermer-nytimes-put-down-escalation-of-war-of-words

Israeli officials escalate war of words with N.Y. Times

By JTA Staff · December 19, 2011

WASHINGTON (JTA) -- Israeli officials are stepping up their criticism of The New York Times, slamming columnist Thomas Friedman and arguing that the newspaper is an unfit venue for an Op-Ed from Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

In a scathing letter first leaked last week to The Jerusalem Post, Ron Dermer, a top aide to Netanyahu, declined an invitation for the prime minister to write an Op-Ed for the Times. By way of explanation, Dermer cited what he alleged was the newspaper's anti-Israel tilt.

"It would seem as if the surest way to get an op-ed published in the New York Times these days, no matter how obscure the writer or the viewpoint, is to attack Israel," he said.

Dermer's letter came just days after Times columnist Thomas Friedman, a frequent critic of Israeli settlement policies, asserted that U.S. congressional support for Netanyahu was "bought and paid for by the Israel lobby."

Rep. Steve Rothman (D-N.J.), a top congressional appropriator, joined a chorus of commentators in decrying Friedman's allegation. And Israel's ambassador to Washington, Michael Oren, said Friedman had "strengthened a dangerous myth."

"This allegation is profoundly disturbing," Oren told JTA. "The term 'Israel lobby' implies the existence of a Zionist cabal wielding inordinate economic and political power. Unintentionally, perhaps, Friedman has strengthened a dangerous myth."

The recent flaps are casting a light on the degree to which the Israeli government believes it has not been getting a fair shake from what is arguably the most influential newspaper in the world.

---------- Post added December-19th-2011 at 01:53 PM ----------

The Christians that support Israel through everything really creep me out....I've noticed these people tend to be what I consider 'super Christians'. You know, those people that take religion wayyyyy too far.

I think they would Creep Most Jews out too if most understood what was behind their support. Evangelicals support Israel because Israel reclaiming all of their traditional lands is a check box which must occur before the second coming of Christ.

The Creepy things are:

(1) Evangelicals also believe Israel will be destroyed in what might be described as a nuclear war prior to the second coming.

(2) Evangelicals believe Christians will be taken from the earth before the shooting starts.. ( the rapture)

(3) Jesus will eventually return and rule on earth, some believe in a rather draconian and dictitorial manor to shore up the peace, not than any Israeli's will be around to see it.

---------- Post added December-19th-2011 at 02:05 PM ----------

Wasn't Israel third on the list for American Support:

South Korea - everything we have to include us manning the DMZ for many many decades

West Germany - everything we have to include lots of bases and troops for many many decades

Korea, Japan, and Germany Pay the United States for stationing troops in their territory in order to defray costs. It's been that way for decades. At times Israel has absorbed more than 90% of all foreign aid the United States has granted. This is because for a while in the 1990's the conservative Jesse Helms tried to cut off all US foreign aid. He had agreed ahead of time his efforts which turned out to be rather sucessful would not include aid earmarked for Israel.

Egypt as part of her 1979 peace treaty with Israel likewise recieves significant US aid but that is arguable all tied to Israel too as we are effectively paying Egypt every year to play nice with Israel. Today, post Jessie Helmes efforts, Jordan is in that bucket too.

[JMS]

Its the the most secure support the world has ever seen.

I believe SK recently started paying for it 15billion+?

Imagine if we treated Israel the same as Germany and SK... we would be manning the checkpoints... It would be escalated already and Palestine would be the northern part of Egypt whom would be 1 trillion richer for taking it. Instead we watch from afar and posture every once in a while.

We don't actually man many checkpoints any more... South Korea has a significantly larger military than does the United States... SK has about 9 million troops under arms ( including reserves) The US has only about 3 million.

Likewise gone are the days when the US Troops stationed in SK were an effective fighting force capable of defending themselves in case of invasion.. Today we keep about 28,000 troops in SK, wouldn't really stand much of a chance against North Koreas 9.5 million troops..... SK's fighting effectivenes was basically looted to enable the Gulf War.

Our Troops in SK today are literally a human trip wire to bring in greater US support if SK has troubles.

List of Countries by Military Manpower.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_troops

US Troop Level in SK

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Forces_Korea

---------- Post added December-19th-2011 at 02:36 PM ----------

So, if a group that doesnt blindly support Israel is receiving more money, why would the GOPers do so while receiving less money?

I think your premise is wrong. I think it can be argued that evangelical Americans are just as fanatical if not more fanatical than the most fervent jewish supporters. Likewise as Friedman says in his article, many secular American Jews don't consider Israel one of their core voting issues.

So this would explain Newt and Mitt's slobbering all over themselves.. Helps them with the base they most need, also helps them with an important component of their eventual rival's base the Dems. It's a win win, and really no loose....

Even folks who were taken aback by Newt and Mitt's declaration of Zombie like Rubber stamp oversite, likely wouldn't vote this as a core issue.

---------- Post added December-19th-2011 at 02:41 PM ----------

Really? I just dont think that Candidate X is going to support Israel 100 percent no matter what because 15 percent of his base (which btw is going to support him anyway) believes that Christians need the Jews to survive and control Israel to ensure salvation at the end of days.

It's called Red Meat for the base. It's a common political practice....

Helps you with Social Conservatives which is a lot more than 15% of any Republican Base these days. It also helps you with a significant part of the Demcratic Base. But the very best thing is it really doesn't hurt you with anybody because US President's sucking up to Israel is pretty much par for the coarse. It doesn't even register with many Americans, and those it does really don't vote the issue as one of their primary concerns. Thus this is the perfect wedge issue and Newt played it like a drum.

---------- Post added December-19th-2011 at 03:00 PM ----------

The right isn't trying to get the Jewish vote by catering to Israel. There aren't enough Jewish voters in America to swing an election, except in perhaps 2 or 3 states.

The right is trying to get the 1) evangelical Christian, 2) anti-Muslim, and 3) Don't let those Euroweenies tell US what to Do! groups of voters by catering to Israel. And there are a ton of those three types of voters.

I disagree with that. If you do the math the Jewish vote is huge for the democratic party. Let's say the Jewish population is 3% of the country.... Pretty small right....

Now consider in 1992 only 50% of the people voted.

Now consider that Jewish voters, like Black Voters and unlike some other groups tend to vote as a block.

Now consider that Jewish voters, also tend to vote in a higher precentage than other groups.

Now consider in 1992 there was a strong third party candidate in Ross Perotte. Who garnered 20% of the available vote...

So Bill Clinton in 1992 was elected with only 20% of the entire available vote.. (43% of votes caste) (Bush Sr. got 38% of the vote or 19% of all votes available)

If Bush Sr. could have taken the Jewish vote in 1992 he would have won the election.

A lesson Bush Jr, ( Baby Bush) learned very well, as his election in 2000 was even closer and was entirely dependent on a few hundred votes in one of the most populous jewish states, Florida...

The Jewish vote is not everything, but it is certainly a staple of the Democratic party, and a staple the GOP has been trying to make inroads into for good reasons for years.

But Newt throwing this red meat to his base is really a twofer... He ramps up his base, something any GOP nominee must do to compete... But he also does shoot wedge issues at Obama who's own credentials to sucking up to Israel are not nearly so glittery at this point.... even though they are pretty freaking glittery.

1992 election results.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_1992

Voter Turnout in 1992

http://www.fec.gov/pages/htmlto5.htm

---------- Post added December-19th-2011 at 03:10 PM ----------

But they already overwhelmingly and blindly support the candidate with the R in front of their name.

Yes but will evangelicals support Newt/Mitt like they supported McCain or Bush Sr?

Or will they support them/him like they supported Baby Bush?

The formula for sucess on the right is to throw lots of red meat at the base and get them to turn out in overwhelming numbers, that gives you a fighting chance against an incumbant who really hasn't excited his own base much.