WP: Thomas Boswell Columnist Mike Shanahan is forging a new identity for the Redskins: building through the draft

[hail2skins]

We have a top-10 defense......

No we don't. We have an improving defense. The only reason fans tout our defense is because the bad state of the offense has made it look decent in comparison. The front seven is decent (and Kerrigan looks like he was a great choice) but we need serious help in the secondary.

[Wyvern]

When Shanahan/Allen are conducting an overhaul of a Cerrato-built roster, then draft-picks are essential tool. I think we're also going to see trades and free-agency signings -- but its the draft that's a good source for young, 'economical' talent.

However, if they take that route -- lhe Redskins are going to need to look long and hard -- at the quality of their scouting and interviewing department. How many folks in the current scouting and talent evaluation department are holdovers from the Cerrato regime that produced gems like the 2008 draft? And even when checking out an NFL-worthy talent -- the Skins interviewers need to be able to unearth and evaluate possible red-flags (Even Williams had rumored off-field issues of work ethic that needed to be carefully checked out before investing such a high pick in him).

Actyally much of this discussion was covered in the following thread: http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?360191-WP-Under-Mike-Shanahan-Redskins’-roster-could-benefit-from-more-delegation-better-scouting-infrastructure-NFL-observers-say

Maybe the Skins need to try recruiting scouts from successful talent acquisiions groups from franchises that tend to find good players,(franchises like Pittsburgh, and NYG,come to mind).

The draft is a not a sure thing -- but increase the number of picks, improve the talent evaluation, and find coaches who can effectively teach/develop new talent -- and the rebuilding results will be great!

[issapunk]

I am also so worried that by the time we are contenders or can be considered such, Fletcher may be gone. I want us to be able to make a legit run with Fletcher on this defense. No one in the NFL deserves it more than him. Nobody.

[issapunk]

No we don't. We have an improving defense. The only reason fans tout our defense is because the bad state of the offense has made it look decent in comparison. The front seven is decent (and Kerrigan looks like he was a great choice) but we need serious help in the secondary.

I would argue this. We have not seen our defense perform with a lead yet, and it is built to attack offenses when it has a lead and has them on their heels. When our offense has played well, our defense has performed. Yeah, we definitely need that secondary improved, but I think it will be OK. We draft another corner and finally get back a healthy Landry/Atogwe and our secondary is instantly upgraded. The biggest piece we need is a NT. I guess Cofield has done 'alright', but for a 3-4 to be dominant, you absolutely have to have a dominant NT. The only way Kerrigan and Orakpo improve and become the all-stars we all want is if we get a true, space-eating NT. The one thing that has bummed me out about this defense is the lack of turnovers. Last year, we gave up tons of td's and yards, but got a good amount of turnovers. This year, we are more stingy but can't pick up a ******* fumble to save our lives.

Oh and once Jenkins returns, our front 7 gets a bigggggg bump.

[Larry Brown #43]

This was one of the best columns about the Redskins from the Post in some time.

What's most interesting to me is how for years Skins fans (on this board in particular) have begged the team to be patient and build through the draft. And now that we're actually doing it, people don't know what to make of it because it's so foreign to us. People look at the W-L record and say, "what's going on?"

I went back and looked at each Redskins draft since Beathard's famous 1981 draft that netted Mark May, Russ Grimm, Dexter Manley, Charlie Brown, Darryl Grant and Clint Didier. It's still early of course, but I honestly feel that our 2011 draft will be seen as a turning point for this franchise in the coming years. Based on the (very) early returns we've seen from the guys we drafted this year, I believe our 2011 draft has the real potential to be the best Redskins draft class from top-to-bottom since that 1981 class.

Look at each draft from 1982 on, and admittedly there's not a ton of competition (particularly post Beathard). 1981 was our last truly great class from top to bottom. 1986 was pretty solid. But I just have a really good feeling about this year's draft class. We're doing it right--let's let it work.

[S.T.real,lights,out]

Grossman's QB Ratings this year, by game:

110.5

74.9

77.5

48.5

23.7

58.7

95.5

96.6

37.5

92.2

3 of his 4 best outings on the year have come in the last 4 weeks. If anything, I think we've just seen the best of Grossman, and the pendulum is about to swing back to Bad Grossman, as seen in weeks 2-6.

Take away Grossman's flukey interception last week, and he did basically play his perfect game. It's not gonna happen again... Seriously, outside of Roy Helu, we are playing a team of backups and third stringers at every position on offense

Greeeaaaatttt!!

And i really hope Mike sticks around to fix this thing

[issapunk]

This was one of the best columns about the Redskins from the Post in some time.

What's most interesting to me is how for years Skins fans (on this board in particular) have begged the team to be patient and build through the draft. And now that we're actually doing it, people don't know what to make of it because it's so foreign to us. People look at the W-L record and say, "what's going on?"

I went back and looked at each Redskins draft since Beathard's famous 1981 draft that netted Mark May, Russ Grimm, Dexter Manley, Charlie Brown, Darryl Grant and Clint Didier. It's still early of course, but I honestly feel that our 2011 draft will be seen as a turning point for this franchise in the coming years. Based on the (very) early returns we've seen from the guys we drafted this year, I believe our 2011 draft has the real potential to be the best Redskins draft class from top-to-bottom since that 1981 class.

Look at each draft from 1982 on, and admittedly there's not a ton of competition (particularly post Beathard). 1981 was our last truly great class from top to bottom. 1986 was pretty solid. But I just have a really good feeling about this year's draft class. We're doing it right--let's let it work.

EXACTLY! The only other team that may have had a better overall draft is the Bengals and that's because they added 2 impact players right away. We nailed almost every pick and it shows. I don't understand why writers in this town beg for a change and then ***** and moan about all the losses during the transition. I don't mind losing a single game this year, it will make it that much sweeter when we finally get 'there'. No more overnight fixes. A couple more offseasons with personnel additions and drafts like these, without big non-sensical FA signings, and we are looking great.

Also, what hasn't been talked about is where would be in the NFC East once our rookie QB reaches his potential. Let's say we hit on QB and he plays well from the start and keeps progressing. In 3 years, Eli Manning will be 33, Romo sits to pee and Vick will be 34. Our guy will be around 25 or 26. Just reaching his peak as a QB, while the others can see retirement not so far down the road. We will literally run this division and then the other teams will have to start looking for their new QBs and it's a few more years for them to be put in place. I'm liking the looks of the next decade for us if we get the right QB.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

The Wilbur Marshall deal would be ripped today. Two first round choices for a player who struggled fitting into Richie Petitbon's scheme for nearly 3 seasons. He was hardly an impact player. I suggest you watch him from 88-90. He did finally become one for us in 91 and 92 and we promptly lose him because why? The Skins franchised him but he wanted out because he hated playing in Richie's defense and wanted to join Buddy Ryan in Houston.

Maybe I'm remembering it through the prism of being a 12-year old at the time. I often wonder how a lot of what went on would have looked to the 34-year old version of me back then. Thanks for the correction.

---------- Post added December-15th-2011 at 07:55 AM ----------

The '80s are over man. You simply are not any sort of contender without a QB. Right now we have easily the worst QB situation in the division and bottom 3 in the entire NFL. If the QB situation isn't settled at the end of year 3 of a regime, that regime clearly does not understand what it takes to win in the 21st century NFL

SHF, you know that I am generally in agreement that we need a QB more than anything else. I also believe we should do almost anything it takes to obtain one by the time it is our turn to pick a player in the first round of this coming draft. So, I'm not a "you can win without a QB" type of guy at all.

Now that I have that out there, I need to make sure that everyone understands that we might not win in year 2 (or 3 or 4) WITH a young promising QB. In fact, it's even possible that teams who "don't get it" and don't have the franchise QB onboard will beat us. I read a sobering stat the other day re: Bradford and the St. Louis Rams. This year, despite Bradford having a phenomenal rookie year and being in year 2, the Bradford-led Rams are a combined 0-4 against the Skelton-led Cardinals and Jackson-led Seahawks.

So, yes we need a QB and it's not the 1980s...but it's also not going to do us any good unless we continue to build depth, upgrade our numerous other weaknesses, etc. This isn't really a disagreement with anything you've posted...more a clarification of the position I've held. I think too often these debates get boiled down to two overly simplistic points of view (both of which are drastic exaggerations). It seems like it always turns into a "All we need is a QB" vs. a "Anyone can play QB on a good team" debate. In reality, we need the franchise QB along with the OL, WR, CB, etc.

Carry on!

[Riggo#44]

Your posting style is, our franchises only problem is we don't have an NFL caliber QB, which is ludicrous and far from the obvious.

No, but it is our biggest problem -- by far.

I still contend with a good QB and relative health -- we are going to the playoffs. We probably should have beat the Patriots starting a UDFA rookie at LT, 7th round rookie at RG, and a bum at RT in Locklear. I think we have some good depth along the line. We still need a play-making WR. We could use a CB. London's eventual replacement. But above all -- we need a QB that doesn't turn the ball over 2x a game!

[DexterSackMachine]

This really is the 2nd time in the Superbowl era the Redskins are attempting the build through the draft method over several years. Shanahans track record shows that this is his approach to building a team. It clearly does have this town and the media in the town in a tizzy. As a fan base we are used to instant gratification or instant change

The thing about Shanny's "new approach" that has me worried and wondering if he'll stick it out the next few years is the fact that he clearly didn't take that approach from the beginning here. If he came in in 2010 with the rebuild through the draft mentality, we would be much farther along now (minus the McNabb and Brown botches). I just hope they keep following the 2011 plan.

[MassSkinsFan]

That was a great article. This guy should mentor Jason Reid. He uses facts and analysis - holy ****!!!

Patience people! The decisions on draft day are out of our hands, so sit back, be sure to buckle your safety harness, keep your arms and legs inside the ride, and enjoy. Because I'm pretty sure that however we pick, it's going to be based on extensive analysis and sound decision making. I'm excited to see what happens with both the draft and FA.

However, if they take that route -- lhe Redskins are going to need to look long and hard -- at the quality of their scouting and interviewing department. How many folks in the current scouting and talent evaluation department are holdovers from the Cerrato regime that produced gems like the 2008 draft? And even when checking out an NFL-worthy talent -- the Skins interviewers need to be able to unearth and evaluate possible red-flags (Even Williams had rumored off-field issues of work ethic that needed to be carefully checked out before investing such a high pick in him).

Actyally much of this discussion was covered in the following thread: http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?360191-WP-Under-Mike-Shanahan-Redskins’-roster-could-benefit-from-more-delegation-better-scouting-infrastructure-NFL-observers-say

One interesting thing I took away from that thread was that the Snyderatto scouting talent likely provided good information which was then disregarded. Given what we've seen about Shanny cleaning house I can't imagine he didn't check that department too. If they're still here there must be a reason. I'm betting the suggested draft boards are available, Shanny reviewed them and he thought the scouting/personnel guys did their job well. Otherwise, they'd all probably be ripping ticket stubs with Vinny at Six Flags.

[TheCoach22]

It comes down to having someone confident and competent in charge...

Yes, the 80s are over and it is a different game...

1) Plan B free agency was a factor in Gibbs departing the first time. He knew it would change the game and he knew the Skins would not be able to operate the way they had under JKC/Betheard/Gibbs. In order to go the route Cerrato/Snyder went for a decade, the league had to have Plan B Free Agency. The organization has not been very successful in this era, but it is a combination of having an impatient owner and an baffoon as a GM.

2) The draft is now just seven rounds. There was a time it was what, 14? Guys like Joe Jacoby and Clint Dider were late finds. Now a late find is anything after the 4th round. Since Vinny missed on day 1 selections, the chances he would find a gem on day two was slim to none.

3) In the 90s we had bad coaching (Pettibone and an unseasoned Norv Turner who is still mediocre with years in the league as a head coach) and also horrible talent evaluation -- Heah Shuler, Michael Westbrook, etc. were drafted and guys like Al Noga, Carl Banks, etc. were signed. Hell, one season we even cut our first round pick within 12 months of drafting him... the OLman from PSU who we took at the end of the first round.

4) The last 10 years, we all know it has been a collection of problems, but overwhelmingly the problem was impatience from an owner and an idiot for a GM. Snyder has changed, he had to.

As far as 2011...

Teams can be built through FA, but the consistant winners have been built through the draft. In today's NFL hitting on at least 2/3s of your day 1 and 2 picks is essential and using FA to fill in missing pieces is also key. Even the Pats and Steelers obtained a few pieces via FA. But the FA were players who wanted to be a part of their culture, not players looking for a pay day. There is a huge difference.

Shanny and Allen hit on both in a shortened offseason last year. The draft looks to have impact players in all positions especially rds. 1-4. The FAs have all contributed this season. And, none of the guys brought in were expected to be All Pros this year, but cogs to a machine that would function as one. Bowen, Cofield, Wilson on D and Gaffney, Hightower on O all showed something. The injuries that hit this team may have overshadowed some of this.

Also noteworthy is no one brought in under the new regime has been a distraction, a cancer, a bust. Yes, the Trent Williams situation is disappointing, but I want to believe this was a blessing in disguise. TW and Davis will hopefully learn that if they want to be stars they better give a stars effort on and off the field. Without them, we get to see what Willie Davis has and we get to compete and work on our depth for the long term. We also secure a better draft position fnishing out with a skeleton of a team. If we have a productive offseason and a good season next year, this will blow over.

Still work to be done. The team has to get its QB and at least one more longterm starter in rounds 1-4. Some pieces can be added through FA too. If Shanny decides Dwayne Bowe makes his WR better than the fan base should trust it.

Lastly I hate the negativity of the people that insist next year must also be a 6-8 win season. You have no idea... that is the other thing that has changed in todays NFL. EVERY year there is a SF 49ers that emerges. Yes, some good fortune has to happen for this to take place, but after 20 years of bad fortune, don't you want to believe that this fan base is due for some good fortune.

Barring injuries, I really believe this next season will be the start of a nice run.

[Skinsfan4life83]

All the talk about losing the next three games is funny. This place will go ****ing nuts if we win out. Or even two of em. We got an excellent chance to win any of our remaining games.

[FrFan]

Agreed but the point is that Shanahan stocked picks last year and then hit on almost every one. I can't think of a guy who he completely missed on, are there any?

We have so many needs that Shanahan can trade down and get more picks and pick the BPA and they would be able to contribute. I love everything I have seen from Shanahan based on scouting.

I do agree with you, Shanahan got the most out of the draft in the late rounds, props to him and his scouting department.

[Tulane Skins Fan]

I think the biggest point is that this franchise was ****ed in more ways than could be fixed in two years. This is a four year rebuild. Which probably should have started ten years ago.

[PorkSkins]

We're 4-9? What are we building? You can have the entire roster built on college kids but that doesn't make you win. Shanny has yet to prove he can evaluate anything other than a RB. 6-10 or 8-8 isn't going to get it next year either. There are as many holes to fill next year as there were when he arrived. He hasn't proven anything yet. I'll take the over the hill gang anyday if we're winning. It's all about the W's.

[celticsalmon]

Tom Boswell is an old school sport journalist. A rare breed in this town. Good v. good article.

[Epochalypse]

We're 4-9? What are we building? You can have the entire roster built on college kids but that doesn't make you win. Shanny has yet to prove he can evaluate anything other than a RB. 6-10 or 8-8 isn't going to get it next year either. There are as many holes to fill next year as there were when he arrived. He hasn't proven anything yet. I'll take the over the hill gang anyday if we're winning. It's all about the W's.

He hasn't proven anything yet, but I think he needs to be given a fair shake to prove something. The mess he inherited was not an overnight fix; rebuilding through the draft takes years. As to having as many holes now as we had when he took over, here's what he inherited.

QB - Campbell, Collins

RB - Portis, Betts, Cartwright, Mason

FB - Sellers

OL - Samuels, Dockery, Rabach, Thomas, Heyer, M. Williams, Rinehart, E. Williams, Montgomery, Batiste

TE - Cooley, Davis, Yoder

WR - Moss, Randle-El, Thomas, Kelly, Mitchell

DL - Daniels, Griffin, Haynesworth, Carter, Wynn, Golston, Montgomery, Alexander, Jarmon

LB - Orakpo, Fletcher, McIntosh, Wilson, Blades, Henson

CB - Rogers, Hall, Smoot, Tryon, Westbrook, Barnes

S - Landry, Horton, Doughty, Moore

Scan that list...that is what he had to work with when he started. I count two of those as people we lost who might have been worth keeping in Campbell and Rogers. Those we kept have at least transitional value, but everyone else no longer on the team, most of them aren't even in the league any more. This is our 2009 roster. Two years ago. Fixing this was going to take time.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

Not sure why anyone would be convinced Minny will beat us.

Yep. I think we win that game. We were beating the Jets halfway through the 4th quarter. We hung with the Patriots. We almost beat the Cowboys, and we did beat the Seahawks.

We've been a very underrated team the past couple of games. I actually think we're the favorite in the game vs Minny.

[Skinsinparadise]

We're 4-9? What are we building? You can have the entire roster built on college kids but that doesn't make you win. Shanny has yet to prove he can evaluate anything other than a RB.

Outside of Helu you mean the rest of the draft is questionable or you are talking about his Denver tenure? I saw a big part of the point as this team has wanted immediate gratification so it has not had the paitence for the rebuild. If we are going to expect ONE big draft to turn the team around and give up if it doesn't -- then yeah IMO we are doomed for more mediocrity.

I recall one football periodical pre Shanny quoting an anonymous scout from an NFC East rival saying something to the effect that the Skins never want to start over and instead try to keep patching up their roster -- when will they learn that it isn't a sustainable model? That was said during Zorn's last year.

The good teams -- the Giants, Eagles (although not this year) Pats, Packers, Steelers -- generally at the minimum have full drafts and the Eagles and Patriots in particular like to add picks so each draft they have a new Hankerson, Helu, Kerrigan, Jenkins, etc -- as opposed to it being a one time deal -- they can handle injuries so much better because the heir apparent is often on the roster waiting.

I recall for example a couple of years ago, a key Giants O lineman got hurt, and they brought in Beatty who is a 2nd rounder as a sub. The week after that game the Skins had an injury and they brought in undrafted Stephen Heyer as the sub. That to me is part of the reason why injuries kill us so much. Other good teams replace their starters with the next heir apparent -- our subs are often over the hill guys released by their former clubs or 7th round draft picks or guys off the street. It's starting to change now.

[bird_1972]

I am not checking it as a sure win, but I would go out on a limb and bet we will win 1 of our next 3.

Not outlandish as any team can win any given Sunday ...

That said, I think the odds are stacked against us.

---------- Post added December-15th-2011 at 05:11 PM ----------

I recall for example a couple of years ago, a key Giants O lineman got hurt, and they brought in Beatty who is a 2nd rounder as a sub. The week after that game the Skins had an injury and they brought in undrafted Stephen Heyer as the sub. That to me is part of the reason why injuries kill us so much. Other good teams replace their starters with the next heir apparent -- our subs are often over the hill guys released by their former clubs or 7th round draft picks or guys off the street. It's starting to change now.

We still have a long way to go. The cupboard was bare when Shanny took over.

[jthor99]

I think our offensive performance against the Pats was an anomaly given the current personnel we have, a product of Shanahan's hyper-competitiveness against Belichick (he has ALWAYS masterfully concocted gameplans against him), right down to the Brandon Banks play that we've clearly been saving for more than a year (he spoke about practicing that play as far back as last year). Frankly, I'm surprised that Shanahan hasn't been given more criticism for saving that play for Belichick rather than an NFC East foe. .

You do realize that New England has the worst defense in the league right?

[Kelvin Bryant]

Nice post. When you look at that 2009 roster, the number of spots needing upgrades or replacements is daunting. This year's draft was excellent. One or two more like it, and we might be set for a while -- if we don't sell the farm moving up for the QB.

[skinfan2k]

This is of course but if you are not seeing the results on the field. obviously it is too early but lets say that shanny uses the next 2 drafts, people are going to look at the results on the field? what then?

[Pedro]

MS talks about liking linemen, big fast ones if possible, and he's kept to his word since being here. Trent was a high 1st, then Brown was traded for (turned out one of two bad trades) with a 3rd. Kerrigan with a first followed by Jenkins with a 2nd, good money on Cofield, Bowen and Chester plus other moves that have paid of (and not) like Carriker, Willie Smith (maybe), Selvish Capers, Hurt, Cook, Lichtensteiger, Montgomery, Polywothisname.

Loads of focus on the lines and I love it. Our OL still needs 2 or 3 new pieces, but that's easy enough with a interior OL in FA and a RT in the draft. We will have ok starter quality at every back up position on our O and D lines. How times change! Add Griffin or Luck and good times will follow.