SnyderShrugged Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 What do you seriously think would happen to the economy if over night Congress balanced the budget? I think that would be the first step towards economic common sense, probably coupled with some initial pain as all change does, then things will mend since we would be spending in an intelligent fashion. We have already seen that the budget could easily be balanced by making some tough, but logical choices. Choices that politicians are afraid to make sadly. Heck, just starting with foreign policy spending would be almost painless to most yet yield huge savings alone. allow me to flip the question please... What do you think will happen if we see the same proportionate increases in spending for the next few years? In your heart of hearts, do you really feel this path is sustainable? ---------- Post added December-2nd-2011 at 10:50 AM ---------- I think the big question is where do these issues stop being issues and start being the party line.Raising the deficits issue in the context of "rich people are job creators and taxing them is class warfare" is just more party line preparing for the next election marketing crap. To me, there should be no such thing as a "party line" in this at all. They all should stop being idiots and see that we have been irresponsible in spending and waste and that something needs to be done to reduce real spending now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 With who? Are we going to suddenly develop a subspecies of humans that are immune to what ails the current pols? I agree that both sides have plenty of faults as a group and individuals but until being rich isn't a requirement for running for office we are limited in who run. The really smart ones wouldn't waste their time in DC. Making money is what we're all about and while there's plenty to be made in DC, it's a pittance compared to what the functioning rest of the world will pay them. You do not have to be really smart to do a budget....Hell the Texas legislature is proof of that :evilg: I do agree with making it easier to get on the ballot You just said that 'pittance' was being made by those that were not really smart already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLongshot Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 To me, there should be no such thing as a "party line" in this at all. They all should stop being idiots and see that we have been irresponsible in spending and waste and that something needs to be done to reduce real spending now. You know, we'd probably be halfway there if the focus wasn't on the deficit but getting people back to work so that they can generate more tax revenue... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnyderShrugged Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 You know, we'd probably be halfway there if the focus wasn't on the deficit but getting people back to work so that they can generate more tax revenue... We wouldnt need to generate more tax revenue if the spending didnt create the need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLongshot Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 We wouldnt need to generate more tax revenue if the spending didnt create the need. It would have helped if the Bush administration actually funded the war it wanted to get into, rather than give everyone a tax cut. That part never made any sense to me, and is a good part of why we are in this situation. Getting back to my point, what should be the priortity for the past couple of years at least is to get people back to work. My wife has been basically unemployable since getting laid off and working as a stay-at-home mom. Companies won't even look at her resume right now. Personally, I couldn't give a rat's ass about talk about the deficit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnyderShrugged Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 It would have helped if the Bush administration actually funded the war it wanted to get into, rather than give everyone a tax cut. That part never made any sense to me, and is a good part of why we are in this situation.Getting back to my point, what should be the priortity for the past couple of years at least is to get people back to work. My wife has been basically unemployable since getting laid off and working as a stay-at-home mom. Companies won't even look at her resume right now. Personally, I couldn't give a rat's ass about talk about the deficit. I agree fully on Bush's spending, party matters not in this. You may not care about the deficite now, but it will mean the end of us economically and I know for sure you will care ultimately, as we all will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABQCOWBOY Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 I think it's foolish to say that one side is obstructionist while the other is trying their best to get things done. That's just the worst kind of politics IMO. Both parties are committed to positions that will not succeed. Yeah, the GOP is adamant about extending Bush Tax Cuts and not increasing taxes but the Left is just as adamant about putting off immediate cuts in spending and forcing them out for other Administrations and Congressional bodies to have to deal with. They are just as adamant about increasing taxation without reducing social speeding. This is not a one sided deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 I think it's foolish to say that one side is obstructionist while the other is trying their best to get things done. That's just the worst kind of politics IMO. Both parties are committed to positions that will not succeed. Yeah, the GOP is adamant about extending Bush Tax Cuts and not increasing taxes but the Left is just as adamant about putting off immediate cuts in spending and forcing them out for other Administrations and Congressional bodies to have to deal with. They are just as adamant about increasing taxation without reducing social speeding. This is not a one sided deal. What cuts that would take affect immediately have the Republicans suggested? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnyderShrugged Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 What cuts that would take affect immediately have the Republicans suggested? taken with the HUGE grain of salt that they ignore his plan of course http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/ron-paul-plan-to-restore-america/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABQCOWBOY Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 What cuts that would take affect immediately have the Republicans suggested? Several, including unemployment benefits and other social programs cuts. We don't need to be putting these cuts, whatever the cuts are, off till most of these guys are out of office or what have you. We should enact intelligent cuts immediately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Several, including unemployment benefits and other social programs cuts. We don't need to be putting these cuts, whatever the cuts are, off till most of these guys are out of office or what have you. We should enact intelligent cuts immediately. You mean the last extension of unemployment benefits was NOT approved by the House, and they aren't working on another one now? http://thehill.com/homenews/house/196765-gop-working-on-unemployment-benefit-reforms ---------- Post added December-2nd-2011 at 11:33 AM ---------- taken with the HUGE grain of salt that they ignore his plan of coursehttp://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/ron-paul-plan-to-restore-america/ Okay. In the future, I'll say Republicans that actually matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnyderShrugged Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 You mean the last extension of unemployment benefits was NOT approved by the House, and they aren't working on another one now?http://thehill.com/homenews/house/196765-gop-working-on-unemployment-benefit-reforms ---------- Post added December-2nd-2011 at 11:33 AM ---------- Okay. In the future, I'll say Republicans that actually matter. I can go with that, though of course, recent history does show that at least in the arena of ideas, he matters quite a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLongshot Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 I agree fully on Bush's spending, party matters not in this. You may not care about the deficite now, but it will mean the end of us economically and I know for sure you will care ultimately, as we all will. No doubt something needs to be done at some point, but the timing of it all (during a Dem presidential reign and when the economy is in the toilet) smells of political opportunism. It is also ignoring the elephant in the room. (Jobs) If the GOP cared so damn much about it, why didn't they do anything about it when they had most things under their control? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnyderShrugged Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 No doubt something needs to be done at some point, but the timing of it all (during a Dem presidential reign and when the economy is in the toilet) smells of political opportunism. It is also ignoring the elephant in the room. (Jobs) If the GOP cared so damn much about it, why didn't they do anything about it when they had most things under their control? I'm with ya brother, the GOP gets no pass on this either and I even agree that the majority of the GOP is acting as opportunists and simply taking political swipes. Its a disastrous failure of common sense government in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulane Skins Fan Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 I think it's foolish to say that one side is obstructionist while the other is trying their best to get things done. That's just the worst kind of politics IMO. Both parties are committed to positions that will not succeed. Yeah, the GOP is adamant about extending Bush Tax Cuts and not increasing taxes but the Left is just as adamant about putting off immediate cuts in spending and forcing them out for other Administrations and Congressional bodies to have to deal with. They are just as adamant about increasing taxation without reducing social speeding. This is not a one sided deal. There's obstructionists and pragmatists in both parties. However, the leadership of the GOP and the Tea Party congressman are obstructionists. Whereas most of, not all, the leadership of the dems (Obama and Reid in particular) seem to be trying to be pragmatic about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sisko Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 I can go with that, though of course, recent history does show that at least in the arena of ideas, he matters quite a bit. Only to those to whom the writings of the hypocrite Ayn Rand are akin to the Bible. On another much more important topic, I hope your Mother is doing better. If the GOP cared so damn much about it, why didn't they do anything about it when they had most things under their control? I've asked this question many times and never received much of a response other than perhaps "That was the old GOP. These new guys will be different." Yeah, right. :jerk: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnyderShrugged Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Only to those to whom the writings of the hypocrite Ayn Rand are akin to the Bible.On another much more important topic, I hope your Mother is doing better. I've asked this question many times and never received much of a response other than perhaps "That was the old GOP. These new guys will be different." Yeah, right. :jerk: Thanks for asking about Mom, It's pretty bad right now, but she kicks but in the faith department and is staying positive. (I do disagree with you on who thinks Pauls ideas are important, mainly because since the 08 campaign, I've seen many adopt parts of his positions. I think despite a snowballs chance in hades of gaining the nomination, he has definitely made a difference in terms of ideas for this race.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLongshot Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 I've asked this question many times and never received much of a response other than perhaps "That was the old GOP. These new guys will be different." Yeah, right. :jerk: The new guys are different. Unfortunately, they are different in that they not only thwart the goals of the Dems, they thwart the goals of the GOP as well. In the meantime. nothing continues to get done, which is fine in the eyes of the new guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABQCOWBOY Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 There's obstructionists and pragmatists in both parties. However, the leadership of the GOP and the Tea Party congressman are obstructionists. Whereas most of, not all, the leadership of the dems (Obama and Reid in particular) seem to be trying to be pragmatic about this. I'm sorry, I can not agree with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnyderShrugged Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 I'm sorry, I can not agree with this. The ultimate "pragmatism" resides in not spending money we dont actually have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABQCOWBOY Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 You mean the last extension of unemployment benefits was NOT approved by the House, and they aren't working on another one now? No, that is not what I mean or what I even said. I'm pretty sure you know that Peter but if you wish to discuss what is contained in this article, we can do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulane Skins Fan Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 I'm sorry, I can not agree with this. Not surprising. But its true. The ultimate "pragmatism" resides in not spending money we dont actually have. That sounds nice, but just "being against spending," which is what a lot of GOP congressionals are now, is not pragmatic. Especially when, even in your hypothetical, it is possible to have more money, i.e. increase revenues. Being pragmatic means being willing to give and take. At least it means that to some respect. Your comment in a lot of ways is just the opposite of pragmatism, especially if it means "I am totally against any increased spending in any scenario because don't have money and I'm against raising taxes too." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexey Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 To me, there should be no such thing as a "party line" in this at all. They all should stop being idiots and see that we have been irresponsible in spending and waste and that something needs to be done to reduce real spending now. Yeah they should forget who they are, how they got to have power and influence, and what it takes to keep it. The whole system is broken. Incentives for politicians are out of whack. Nowadays things that people have to do in order to stay important and powerful contradict things that would be good for the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacase Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 As far as torpedoing the deal...all on the dems, they got exactly what they wanted in this. They never had any intention of coming to a deal. They wanted over 1 trillion in new taxes so they could keep spending. As far as Boehner, this is one of the few times I actually disagree. Let the cuts happen. But I think that this request is politics at work. Obama will refuse this and the GOP can blame Obama for gutting the military. Its all about positioning right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnyderShrugged Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Yeah they should forget who they are, how they got to have power and influence, and what it takes to keep it.The whole system is broken. Incentives for politicians are out of whack. Nowadays things that people have to do in order to stay important and powerful contradict things that would be good for the country. I rarely see a post that I agree with more than this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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