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Extremeskins

My little social security conundrum


Springfield

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This could've been discussed or even beaten to death in another thread out there. I don't follow the political threads as much as I used to. It was an intriguing thought I just came up with though and I figured I'd share it with the mindless ideologues here in the tailgate. :)

OK, we've been force fed the fact that Social Security (herein known as SS) will run out "soon". My generation will not receive the benefits of SS. Throw in some references to socialism and how it was a bad plan to begin with and you get the picture.

So how does the government plan telling somebody such as myself that I'll never receive SS money? All the money that I've paid in and get a statement regarding my balance each year are effectively null and void? My money, thousands and thousands of dollars is just gone?

I assume that the first natural action is to delay the age at which one can receive SS money. So, they government tells us that we have to work until and older age to get the money that we've paid in to the system. While geezers a generation before us could retire at a more natural age. Great plan. Sure, I have a 401k with a decent amount of money invested already. That's great, I'm trying to secure my future. This is money that I have paid to the government though. I don't want to wait until I'm 80 years old, if I even make it that far, until I can get my damn money back.

So, when the future comes to fruition. What does the government do when we all sue? What about all of the objections because tax paying, right thinking, Americans get treated differently because of their age?

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The government doesn't have the money to pay, so what do you want them to do?

Your asking the same question everyone is. Since SS collections are used to fund government operations, there will be no money to give you.

So do we revolt?

---------- Post added November-23rd-2011 at 09:08 PM ----------

I mean, we are essentially loaning the government money. If I loan money to somebody, I expect to see it return... usually with interest.

If I've ever loaned money to somebody that wasn't repaid, I can guarantee you that we are no longer friends. Same concept here.

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So do we revolt?

---------- Post added November-23rd-2011 at 09:08 PM ----------

I mean, we are essentially loaning the government money. If I loan money to somebody, I expect to see it return... usually with interest.

If I've ever loaned money to somebody that wasn't repaid, I can guarantee you that we are no longer friends. Same concept here.

Well nobody has stopped paying YET, so there isn't anything to revolt :)

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Well nobody has stopped paying YET, so there isn't anything to revolt :)

We'll, I'm just speaking hypothetically. I haven't really concerned myself with no SS as of right now. I'm in a "we'll figure it out" mind set.

It just seems to me that there is 0% chance that the government can completely give up SS. Even if they try to delay the pay out age, they'll still meet huge resistance. And they should meet resistance. People are guaranteed specific things in their current SS statements. That shouldn't change over time as the government sees fit.

Just like it doesn't matter how my friend gets money to pay me back, I'm not concerned how the government gets the money to pay me back. Just as long as I get paid back.

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Just like it doesn't matter how my friend gets money to pay me back, I'm not concerned how the government gets the money to pay me back. Just as long as I get paid back.

Yeah but the government is already knee deep in borrowing the money. You can't squeeze honey from a monkey's ass.

Every year EVERY DIME you pay into Social Security is borrowed and spent from the Social Security Trust Fund. (Keep in mind the SS Trust Fund is our US Govt and the general fund is our US Govt).

So when the general fund spends more than it takes in (which is every year) it borrows ALL of the SS money and borrows MORE money from other sources.

Once the money going out to SS payees exceeds what the trust fund has promised back we have to borrow MORE money.

So basically at some point the well runs dry....unless you can keep money flowing into the trust fund.

Thats hard to do when payees will soon exceed payers.

At some point you have to decrease spending or increase revenue so as the problem doesn't ever arise.

It's easier to just call SS what it is, another tax.

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We'll, I'm just speaking hypothetically. I haven't really concerned myself with no SS as of right now. I'm in a "we'll figure it out" mind set.

It just seems to me that there is 0% chance that the government can completely give up SS. Even if they try to delay the pay out age, they'll still meet huge resistance. And they should meet resistance. People are guaranteed specific things in their current SS statements. That shouldn't change over time as the government sees fit.

Just like it doesn't matter how my friend gets money to pay me back, I'm not concerned how the government gets the money to pay me back. Just as long as I get paid back.

Watch them cut off SS payouts for a 10 year period to "Get back in the black" for SS.

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Number one, SS is not out of money. Nor is it going to be out, in the short run.

SS will soon, very soon, reach the point at which it will be paying out more than it takes in.

But, SS has been taking in excess money, for decades. It hasn't been running huge surpluses, but the money isn't pocket change, either. By law, SS is required to invest that money in the form of US treasury bills. The surpluses haven't been huge, but they aren't pocket change, either. And, the amount by which expenditures exceed revenues will be a small amount. At first. But, it will get bigger.

The best estimates say that SS has enough "money in the bank" so that that, and it's revenues, will cover SS till, I think, 2025 or so. And in 2025, when SS runs out of t-bills, then SS will still have money coming in, but they'll have to cut benefits by, I think, 27%. (And then cut it some more, each year after that).

So, no, SS is not "bankrupt", nor is it going to be, even if Congress does what it does best. (Nothing).

That said, though . . .

1). When SS begins to cash in the t-bills its bought, there will be secondary effects. Since the government is running a deficit, the only way the government can give SS back the money it's borrowed, is for the government to borrow the money from somebody else. The gov will have to take out new debt, so it can pay off the old debt.

IF, say, this new debt causes the Feds to have to pay higher interest rates, the secondary effects could get ugly.

2). And, the prospec of SS having to cut benefits by 27% in 2025 isn't exactly pleasant, either.

Obviously, it would be nice if we could prevent that from happening.

And, as with most things involving retirement planning, the sooner you start working on it, the better.

----------

Is it GUARANTEED that SS won't be there, in 20 years? No. There are lots of ways SS could be adjusted that would keep it going for a long time. (Personally, I think raising the retirement age is he best one. But there are others).

OTOH, is it POSSIBLE that it won't be there? Yep. It could happen.

There's a big push going on, right now, to use the fear and he exaggerated Cain's of mending doom as justification to intentionally kill it.

(These plans, if they are ever implemented, will actually have he effect of intentionally CAUSING the very thing which they claim they're trying to avoid: SS pulling huge chunks on deficit dollars from general revenue. But the people pushing this plan don't care that their plan will turn a fictional catastrophe into a real one. They just want to get rid of SS.)

But yeah. It's certainly possible that some day soon, the people who want to kill SS will succeed.

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Where Larry and I vehemently disagree, is being out of money to me is when I don't have to borrow to pay.

It might be verbiage, but when you spend more than you take in there is no money. The SS trust fund and the US govt are the same entity. All part of the trillions of dollars in debt. Borrowing from the left hand to pay the right hand....and soon vice versa.

That's not how I run my house. It's equivalent to cash advancing your credit cards until ultimately you can't pay and have to come up with another solution.

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Where Larry and I vehemently disagree, is being out of money to me is when I don't have to borrow to pay.

It might be verbiage, but when you spend more than you take in there is no money. The SS trust fund and the US govt are the same entity. All part of the trillions of dollars in debt. Borrowing from the left hand to pay the right hand....and soon vice versa.

That's not how I run my house. It's equivalent to cash advancing your credit cards until ultimately you can't pay and have to come up with another solution.

Bingo.

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Minor adjustments will keep it going fine till I'm dead(if the country doesn't collapse).....then ya'll can figure it out.:silly:

The longer we put off adjusting it,the worse it is gonna be.

But the people getting it now are the biggest percent of voters... DON'T YOU SEE THAT???

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When the Baby Boomers die off you will have a ton of money for SS.

Your generation will be funded by the Western Hemisphere Open Boarders Treaty(WhobeThere)

Any citizens in the western hemisphere can work in any country, pays taxes at 2% higher than normal of a regular citizen for moving there. SS now has an extra 60million workers at 15 to 1 for the ponzi scheme to continue.

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