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If the Redskins scored exactly 21 points in every game this year..


Houston2Taylor2Landry

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We would be 7-2...Or something close to that.

Giants scored 14

Cardinals scored 21....

Dallas scored 18

St.Louis scored 10

Philly scored 20

Carolina and Buffalo scored 33 and 23 respectively.

San Fran scored 19

Miami scored 20

My point is 2 things....

1) Our defense does magic considering the fact that they have no help and mostly have to stop the other team from scoring while starting inside the 50, thanks to Turnovers or just punting from the 15 after a 3 and out.

2) We are a good QB and RT away from being a 9-7 10-6 team.

Discuss...:helmet:

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It's a lil more then just QB and RT, but you're absolutely right that the defense has been keeping us in games this year. This is the main reason I don't wanna give up on the shannys. Yes, we had to go through one horrible year on defense. The way we're turning over the roster now, did anyone really expect our offense to just magically by-pass the whole rebuild growing-pains thing the defense had to go through?

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We need more than a QB unless it's a Brady/Rodgers type QB.

We also need more than a RT...we can't open a single hole for our guys to run through..and if we do, the RBs miss it. So we either need better o-linemen or better RBs or both..

Also, while I love our defense in the redzone... we kinda stink it up before we get there. We give up big plays all the time, we miss tackles all the time..and our DBs can't cover worth a damn most the time. We are always put in a position to make a defensive stand in the redzone when we should be getting our butts off the damn field. It's not always about how many points they give up... it's about how many chances our defense gives our offense by forcing turnovers and 3 and outs.

That said, if our offense was just an AVERAGE NFL offense..we would be a LOT better all across the board. I know our offense isn't helping our defense AT ALL..but, our defense gives up huge plays as well as long clock killing drives early on when the "tired" excuse isn't relevant. All in all, we are still very much a HUGE WIP. Injuries are killlling us too

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I think the 3 touchdowns thing has been haunting this team for 20+ years or so. How many games has the team lost by less than 7 points? By less than 5 points? How many times, dating back to say 1998 would the team have won if they scored 21pts? I know this has been discussed before, and I remember talking to my buddies about it back in the Spurrier era.

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I think what you say kinda has some merit to it, but we've also been saying things like this for years, and nothing ever gets done. We're always just 3 points here or 5 points there away from being 10-6, etc. Truth is, this team is cursed. Here's why:

1- Our top 10 pick in 2005 decided to grow a pair of hands the same year we decide not to renew his contract. He currently has more interceptions in the first half of this season then all 6 of the seasons he played here with us.

2- The only "generational" player we've seen in decades was brutally murdered in his home before he could even reach his peak.

3- I cannot explain how many times I've seen bad snaps bounce right back into an opponent's hands, or fumbles fall to the ground in such a way that it lands nowhere near any Redskins player. Or, if our players happen to be near the ball, it magically rolls out of bounds before we can even think about getting to it.

4- Mysterious penalty calls. And I mean tons of mysterious calls. You can refer back to pretty much every kick off return Brandon Banks had last year, or my personal favorite... Westbrook getting pushed into Randle El to force a fumble on a punt return. Or the mysterious illegal man in motion penalty on James Thrash back in 2004. I can really go on and on here, but you guys can add your own.

I mean, I look at other teams around the league, and game in and game out, those teams find ways to move the ball while making highlight reel types of plays. No matter who we bring in here, we can't move the ball for ****. I hate being such a jaded fan, but its hard. I've hit rock bottom.

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It's a lil more then just QB and RT, but you're absolutely right that the defense has been keeping us in games this year. This is the main reason I don't wanna give up on the shannys. Yes, we had to go through one horrible year on defense. The way we're turning over the roster now, did anyone really expect our offense to just magically by-pass the whole rebuild growing-pains thing the defense had to go through?

If we can turn around the offense next year the way we did the defense this year, we'll have a legit shot at the division next year.

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It's a lil more then just QB and RT, but you're absolutely right that the defense has been keeping us in games this year. This is the main reason I don't wanna give up on the shannys. Yes, we had to go through one horrible year on defense. The way we're turning over the roster now, did anyone really expect our offense to just magically by-pass the whole rebuild growing-pains thing the defense had to go through?

I think you mean "not giving up on Jim Haslett." Thank that man. Not the Kyle & Mike.

I expected improvement on the offense from the 2010 season. I feel we regressed in this area. This is by far the worst offenses I've ever seen from the redskins. Not even Zorn could pull this destruction off as well as the Shannys have.

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It is painfully obvious that the Redskins are at the bottom of all football in terms of talent on the offensive side of the ball. This past year was focused on shoring up the defense, with the drafting of Kerrigan and Jenkins and the signing of Atogwe, Bowen and Coefield.

But on offense, the team entered the season with a roster consisting of journeymen QBs, journeymen RBs, an offensive line of journeymen anchored by a highly drafted but young and often-injured LT. The main offensive weapons consisted of an aging slot receiver, a beat-up and slow TE and his young backup. The fact that the Redskins event went 3-1 is a testament to the coaching staff and the efforts of the defense.

Comparing the Redskins to the rest of the cellar dwellars in the NFL, I'm not sure there is a team that I wouldn't trade all the offensive players for.

MIA has Long and Marshall

CLE has Thomas, Little, Mack

IND has Manning (who should come back), Wayne, Clark, Garcon

JAC has Jones-Drew

MIN has Peterson, Ponder, Harvin

The plan has to have been to focus on rebuilding the offense in 2012, starting with a QB drafted in the top 10. The team will still need dynamic receivers, O-line depth, a RB that will start the entire season. It's going to be a long offseason...

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I think you mean "not giving up on Jim Haslett." Thank that man. Not the Kyle & Mike.

I expected improvement on the offense from the 2010 season. I feel we regressed in this area. This is by far the worst offenses I've ever seen from the redskins. Not even Zorn could pull this destruction off as well as the Shannys have.

Mike hired Hasslet, and a lot of people we're calling for his head last year, too.

And to keep it in perspective the amount of roster turnover since Zorn's last season, the only starter left going into the Miami game was Fred Davis. The amount of dead wood that was let go of since Shanny came is has left pretty much nothing from Gibbs offense, let alone Zorn's. And trust me, it was neccessary...

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We should get teams to agree to that rule. At the end of the game, Redskins have 21 points, regardless of how everything else plays out. Then we run offensive plays designed to eat clock, and see if we can hold them to under 21. I think this game favors the Redskins against most teams.

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What is the number one rule of football? The team that scores the most points wins.

I talked about this last year or so the delirium tells me. I want the Skins to win every game, especially against division rivals, but the reality is, there's just too few weapons on offense to spark the powder in a pea shooter. Unless the Skins skunk the opponents, the D is going to be on the field way too long.

Same arguments as last year:

1. Defense does not win games. Offense wins games. Unless you have a defense that's scoring more points than the opponent, it's always going to be the offense that wins the game.

2. See the number one rule of football mentioned above for the reasoning behind number 1.

Nothing wrong with last year's picks and I know there were a lot of people upset the Skins went to a 3-4 without the personnel. But until the offense gets two or three more offensive linemen with talent, and another WR who can stretch the field like Moss, and a QB who can stand in the pocket all day long without feeling pressure (which also creates a running game) the offense is going to struggle. See Bradford for an example of a premier QB without any WR weapons or an offensive line. We'll have the same thing here next year.

The only good thing coming out of this season is that when you pick in the top 5, your second round pick is almost as good as the first roud kids. The 3rd round pick like the second,etc. After they get the Qb of their choice in the top 5, hopefully they put something around him like a great WR or a very ggod right tackle or even a talented guard or two. Too bad there are no top notch centers in the 2012 draft but Montgomery can last a year or two. Get a good center and Montgomery can become the depth we are still missing.

Otherwise, drafting that franchise QB is just an exercise in futility.

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Not disagreeing, the dynamics change if we score more points too. Then the other team has to try harder to score more points, instead of going to the ground game to run the clock out on us. So, when we do get that top 10 Offense, don't pull your hair out wondering why now our defense can't as consistently hold teams to under 20 points. It will look like they took a step back, but in reality teams will have to be more aggressive and play us differently. Hopefully it will all settle in and mesh for a solid, contender week in and week out. I believe they will focus on O next year like they did D this year and we'll see a step forward there. I hope....

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I think you mean "not giving up on Jim Haslett." Thank that man. Not the Kyle & Mike.

I expected improvement on the offense from the 2010 season. I feel we regressed in this area. This is by far the worst offenses I've ever seen from the redskins. Not even Zorn could pull this destruction off as well as the Shannys have.

It seems to me we invested heavily in the D during the offseason and it is paying off. I am willing to give one more year in hopes they address the O the same way they did the D this year. 2012 our D is another year into the 3-4 and (hopefully) still getting better AND now the O has some new weapons and depth and starts to move forward the way the D did this year. If none of this happens, I guess I'm just jumping off of the tallest building I can find...

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I certainly agree wholeheartedly with the premise, but you are making an invalid assumption - i.e., that the opposing teams could not have scored more points if they had been pressed to. A lot of those games were decided early, and I think everyone knows that you can sit on almost any lead against the Skins.

But, you are correct, the pitiful offense is killing this team.

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Same arguments as last year:

1. Defense does not win games. Offense wins games. Unless you have a defense that's scoring more points than the opponent, it's always going to be the offense that wins the game.

2. See the number one rule of football mentioned above for the reasoning behind number 1.

The obvious, emotionally unsatisfying truth is that offense and defense are equally important to a football team. It's all a zero sum game, which means that every positive play for one team is equally negative for the other team. So, neither offense nor defense wins games any more than the other.

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Not disagreeing, the dynamics change if we score more points too. Then the other team has to try harder to score more points, instead of going to the ground game to run the clock out on us. So, when we do get that top 10 Offense, don't pull your hair out wondering why now our defense can't as consistently hold teams to under 20 points. It will look like they took a step back, but in reality teams will have to be more aggressive and play us differently. Hopefully it will all settle in and mesh for a solid, contender week in and week out. I believe they will focus on O next year like they did D this year and we'll see a step forward there. I hope....

Great point. Teams are much more content to go conservative on us and just eat clock, because they don't NEED to pull out all the stops. Put up a few scores, and this team literally can't keep up. It also has the added benefit of keeping a lot of stuff off of tape for future opponents: opposing offenses don't need to get fancy when all they're doing is grinding the game to a close, trusting their defense to keep our hapless offense down.

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The Skins have been a mediocre team for nearly 15 years! And, unfortunately, it shows in everything we do. Starting with drafting and making offseason moves.

When compared to some of the top teams, like the GB Packers, we just don't seem to have enough talent on the roster. What talent we do have, is not being used properly, take Orakpo ... He is a DE playing LB.

We really need to implode this team, and build it aroung a STUD FRANCHISE QB. Then get some elite playmakers on both sides of the ball.

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Miami was the first team to have over a 50% success ration on third down against us. I believe that is one of the highest in the league. If we could just get the offense to help out in the slightest, this team could be decent in the near future

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Last year we drafted to improve the D but also got Hank, Paul, and Helu, not to mention Hightower......next draft will be Offense....don't judge until 2013 because that draft will be remaining pieces. I like Kerrigan, Jenkins, Otagwe at full strength. Now comes the OL and QB. We could be ok.

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