Jump to content
Washington Football Team Logo
Extremeskins

Bill Belichick: the man...the myth...the legend?


Hitman21ST

Recommended Posts

fourthdownheader.jpg

Is Belichick really all he's professed to be? Is he really the "Coach of the Decade" and the "Best coach of the past however many years?" Or is he really just the benefactor of the hype machine of ESPN?

He started his career in Baltimore in 1975, as an assistant to the head coach, Ted Marchibroda. He went to Detroit the next year as an assistant special teams coach and was promoted the following year to wide receivers and tight ends coach. In 1978, he was an assistant special teams coach and defensive assistant in Denver. 1979 marked his first of 12 years in New York; working his way up from special teams to become the defensive coordinator from 1985 to 1990, culminating in the Giants upset of the Bills in the Super Bowl.

The next year, he had his first head coaching job, in Cleveland. In five seasons, he amassed a 36-44 record, leading the Browns to the playoffs once. When the Browns bolted for Baltimore, he left and became the secondary coach in New England. The year after that, in 1997, he held the same job for the J-E-T-S Jets Jets Jets.

In 2000, New England hired Belichick as their Head Coach. His first year, they have the same record the Browns did in his last year there (5-11). The following draft, they select a QB in the 6th round by the name of Tom Brady. Drew Bledsoe gets injured, Brady comes in, and the rest is history, right? Maybe not.

The Pats played the Rams, the "Greatest Show on Turf" in the Super Bowl that year. St. Louis was heavily favored, but the Pats pulled the upset. Two out of the next three Super Bowls turned New England into a dynasty, and Belichick into the pantheon of coaching greatness. In 2007 however, the incident known as "Spygate" happened, where a Patriots employee was caught filming a Jets defensive signals. The Patriots lose a draft pick in the following draft, and that year, lose to the Giants in the Super Bowl, ending their perfect season. Accusations abound, including hearing from parties in St. Louis that during their Super Bowl practice sessions, the Rams installed brand new formations and plays that had not even been in their playbook before, but New England was somehow ready for them.

Since "Spygate" New England has continually faltered in the playoffs, getting eliminated earlier and earlier each year. Belichick, so lauded as a personnel guy that he was even praised when he traded two picks to the Skins for Albert Haynesworth when it was obvious we were going to release him had a trade not occurred. That decision has blown up in his face. His trading away of the defense's key cogs (Mike Vrabel and Richard Seymore) seemed genius at the time, but the Pats are now boasting one of the worst defenses in the league, and their drafts are annually getting worse.

Is Belichick really a genius and a great coach, or was he winning thanks to some illegal activity and lucking into an amazing QB in the 6th round? I tend to think that it's the latter. Belichick has been figured out.

I'm labeling him a fraud.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think calling a three time super bowl champion a decade of playoffs and dominance over the league a fraud knowing how tough it is for a team like us to win 9 games. Did he get lucky with Brady yea did be get lucky ripping off teams for first round picks. I think he is one of the goat coaches and would take him here any day any year and believe you would as well or you don't watch enough football.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think calling a three time super bowl champion a decade of playoffs and dominance over the league a fraud knowing how tough it is for a team like us to win 9 games. Did he get lucky with Brady yea did be get lucky ripping off teams for first round picks. I think he is one of the goat coaches and would take him here any day any year and believe you would as well or you don't watch enough football.

I wouldn't, and I wouldn't think twice about it. Since he got caught cheating he hasn't done anything in the playoffs. His personnel decisions have become downright atrocious. He's an average coach, at best.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You are going to try different things you cant win the super bowl every year. You don't appreciate winning one but three. I can't think of any coach to win three superbowls and ever being ran out not on his own terms, those are legends my friend. His team is competitive in the confrence championships with a rookie d. Lost cuz of them so he tried something different and went for something he has done for decades of flipping trash for diamonds. Al was a miss but it cost him little to nothing to try. And the defense hasn't been the same sine crenell left doent mean he is a bad coach.

But good op man reads well. Just givin u a hard timd

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Since he got caught cheating he hasn't done anything in the playoffs. His personnel decisions have become downright atrocious. He's an average coach, at best.

So I guess going to the Super Bowl is nothing. They were in the Super Bowl the same year Spygate happened. And that happened in week 1. So he's done a little more than nothing since Spygate. As far as his personnel decisions being atrocious, I guess getting Randy Moss for next to nothing, then having him turn in one of the greatest seasons ever, then trading him when he was done and everyone said he was crazy, is nothing. They cut Lawyer Milloy after their first Super Bowl and everyone said they were crazy. They even got trounce by Buffalo in week 1 with Milloy playing for the Bills, but the Patriots won 2 of the next 3 Super Bowls. He misses on plenty of guys, but he's not afraid to take a chance and cut bait when it doesn't work. But he finds guys to come in and get the job done. What did Wes Welker do before he got to New England? What did Deion Branch do after he left New England? They have a system, they look for guys who can work in their system, and when it doesn't work, they get rid of them. It's why they go for 12 draft picks. If half of them work out, they have 6 players. Most teams with 7 picks, half of them work out, they have 3 or 4 players.

Belichick isn't perfect, he makes lots of mistakes. He's won 3 Super Bowls, something only 3 other coaches have done. Not to mention he's done it all in the salary cap era, which no other coach has done.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Belichick isn't perfect, he makes lots of mistakes. He's won 3 Super Bowls, something only 3 other coaches have done. Not to mention he's done it all in the salary cap era, which no other coach has done.

He struck gold with Brady, and he cheated his way to the Super Bowl.

His personnel decisions have become atrocious, not always have been. Haynesworth and Ochocinco have been colossal busts. He got rid of two of his best defensive players and now is paying for it. 25th ranked defense last year, 32nd this year. He's lucky he's got Brady to bail out his defense.

---------- Post added November-10th-2011 at 09:57 PM ----------

But good op man reads well. Just givin u a hard timd

Just trying to talk about something other than how bad do we need to do to get which quarterback

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just trying to talk about something other than how bad do we need to do to get which quarterback

I know I risk getting the "Its the ATN and we don't talk about the Skins in here" treatment, but if you label Belicheck a fraud, how do you label Shanahan given his lack of playoff success post-Elway? And what will Shanny have to do in DC in order for you to label his run here successful?

Lets also not forget that the Pats went 11-5 in 2008 without Brady.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wouldn't, and I wouldn't think twice about it. Since he got caught cheating he hasn't done anything in the playoffs. His personnel decisions have become downright atrocious. He's an average coach, at best.

Did you forget the 16-0 regular season and making the Super Bowl with an 18-0 record only to lose off a dumbass lucky play with Eli running for his life, throwing up a duck and a WR thats not even in the league anymore catching it in tripple coverage on his helmet getting hit? One play from going 19-0 and having a perfect season in todays era of the NFL, which is almost impossible to do due to the level of competition at even the weakest teams.

Oh yeah, that happened way after Spy Gate, get over it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know I risk getting the "Its the ATN and we don't talk about the Skins in here" treatment, but if you label Belicheck a fraud, how do you label Shanahan given his lack of playoff success post-Elway? And what will Shanny have to do in DC in order for you to label his run here successful?

Lets also not forget that the Pats went 11-5 in 2008 without Brady.

Shanahan hasn't been regularly labeled a "genius" by ESPN, NFLN, etc, for his personnel moves. IIRC, he was labeled "racist" and some other terms for his handling of McNabb and Haynesworth. None of which was recanted when both their new respective coaches did the exact same thing. Had Shanahan gotten the same praises Belichick does, I would have had to regard him the same way.

As for the coach/QB success attribute, that's for a different thread, but here's my Reader's Digest take on those arguments:

Save for Gibbs, every coach who has won multiple Super Bowls has done so with the same QB. I can't remember EVERY one, but some examples: Tomlin/Roethlisberger, Shanahan/Elway, Belichick/Brady, Johnson/Aikman. You need to catch lightning in a bottle to do that. Out of those coaches I listed (excluding Tomlin, because Big Ben is the only QB he's had), name me one who "did anything" without the QB that is paired with him. You can't, because it hasn't happened. I don't give much weight to the "Coach X hasn't done anything without QB Y" argument, because only Gibbs has multiple Super Bowls with multiple QBs.

To be a success in my eyes? Turn us into a consistently winning team. A team that you can pencil in for, at minimum, 9 or 10 wins every year for the next 10 years. He does that, a Super Bowl is in the odds for us. That's how I'll view his tenure here.

Back on topic, though, Brady's not my only reasoning for why I'm calling Belichick a fraud. His cheating (which you can't say didn't play a role in the Super Bowls), his personnel moves, and the very limited postseason success since he got caught are my big guns.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Scott Pioli

Thomas Dimitroff

Ever since those two guys left, the Pats drafts haven't been as successful as they once were.

In the case of Pioli, the story goes that he was one of the few people who could tell Bill no and they could actually have an argument over a player.

Exactly this. He seems lost when it comes to acquiring players, MYTH he is.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Considering the spectacular failures of Crennel, Weis, and McDaniels as head coaches, I'm beginning to wonder if Belicheat needs Brady more than Brady needs Belicheat.

I'm always somewhat shocked by the narrow-mindedness of people when it comes to ascribing credit for what are truly organizational successes. Winning multiple Super Bowls in a decade is like catching lightning in a bottle, so many little things have to go right along the way and the margin for error is tiny. Removing a single piece from the team equation could have much greater consequences than any of us would suspect.

There's no way of divining what Belichick does without Brady or vice versa and, frankly, it's stupid to diminish one or the other when the same logic could be applied to any other QB/coach pairing. Results are all that really matter and, by that token, Belichick is a great coach.

I've been saying that he's somewhat overhyped as a coach for a long time, too. He's not quite the genius some would like to believe but he is still much better at his job than most.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I like how we are just focused on playoffs because that fits the argument. Ignoring that the Pats won their division in 2007, 2009, and 2010. From 2007-2011 the pats have a regular season record of 56-16 (.777) including a perfect 16-0.

In 2008 the Patriots lost Tom Brady for the season 11 passing attempts into the first game of the season and they missed the playoffs for the 2nd time in a decade. They did manage to finish 11-5 and make the career of Matt Cassell.

Speaking of Matt Cassell. Who is scouting QBs in New England? Tom Brady in the 6th and Matt Cassell in the 7th? Can Dan Snyder please find whoever the hell chose these two and offer him a job.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

He is a great coach but I think what makes him a great coach is what MOST people would call shady. Kind of like how the Raiders used to win their games, and eventually Championships in the 70s-80s. Belichick and his people find ways (like the spygate thing helped them predict the play before they happened) to make things that they know the refs don't see or don't call much to work more in their favor.

One of the major reasons for the rules changes for DB's mugging receivers was because of the style of play of the Raiders literally beating up WR's and TE's in the 70's with Hayes, Hendricks. Brown, etc. Well since then some teams have always pushed those rules and found new ways to screw up an offenses timing and they usually get away with it, legal or not. The Giants in the 80's for instance, the Pats in the early 2000's when they beat a much better Rams team in the SB, much like a decade earlier the Giants somehow beat a much better Bills team in the SB, who was coaching in both of those games?

Even now I'm sure the Pats lead the league in getting away with OL holding, DB interference and whatever else they can get away with because Belichick looks for things like that to be the difference in the game. This might be part of the reason why Parcells could always show up, bring in a handful of his guys, and turn a 1-15 team into an instant playoff team, and Belichick uses the exact same tactics. (Remember what Parcells said on ESPN when he was asked what he thought about the spying? I bet it had been going on a lot longer than New England after hearing his answer)

Now I think after spygate some coaches are smart enough to know that you need to totally change your normal play calling and game plan when you play the Patriots. How else do you explain the Browns last year with Mangini as coach (former Belichick guy) blowing out the Pats? McDaniels beat then with the Broncos as well. Then remember how the Jets got smoked 45-3 in New England last year and came back a month later, with a totally unpredictable gameplan, and beat the crap out of the Pats on the same field in the Playoffs. I think good coaches have finally figured out how to get around the spying, which i am sure is still going on. Maybe they are informing the refs on what cheap tactics to look out for as well, i'm not sure but coaches have adjusted to the way the Patriots play in the past 1/2 decade and that is why they aren't winning SB's anymore.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No one player or coach is better than the sum of the parts. This is a team sport from top to bottom.

I do think Belichek is a great coach because he always haves his teams prepared to play. His 3 SB trophies will put him in the hall of fame. He isn't a fraud, but like any person, he needs the right pieces around him to succeed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

He is hands-down the best coach in the game by any objective measure. Easily one of the greatest ever. I don't know how anyone can say otherwise. All his team has done is dominate for a decade no matter who he put on the field.

The only thing I hate more than Bill Belichick and the Patriots is when somebody makes me defend them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know I risk getting the "Its the ATN and we don't talk about the Skins in here" treatment, but if you label Belicheck a fraud, how do you label Shanahan given his lack of playoff success post-Elway? And what will Shanny have to do in DC in order for you to label his run here successful?

Lets also not forget that the Pats went 11-5 in 2008 without Brady.

They went 11-5 against one of the easiest schedules in the league that season. Look at their schedule, I'm not sure they beat a single decent team. Playing the NFCW and a poor AFCE lends itself to a pretty good record. Add in a game against the Jamarcus Russel led Raiders and you have yourself a winning season.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

They went 11-5 against one of the easiest schedules in the league that season. Look at their schedule, I'm not sure they beat a single decent team. Playing the NFCW and a poor AFCE lends itself to a pretty good record. Add in a game against the Jamarcus Russel led Raiders and you have yourself a winning season.

Not to bring our favorite team into the discussion again, but when was the last time the Redskins won 11 games in a season?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

They went 11-5 against one of the easiest schedules in the league that season. Look at their schedule, I'm not sure they beat a single decent team. Playing the NFCW and a poor AFCE lends itself to a pretty good record. Add in a game against the Jamarcus Russel led Raiders and you have yourself a winning season.

The problem with claiming that year's strength of schedule, is that it's based on the year before. The Patriots had the easiest schedule in 2008 only based on what their opponents did in 2007.

In reality, the Patriots' opponents in 2008 had a winning percentage of .590, the third highest in the league. Against that schedule they went 11-5 with a 6th round quarterback who hadn't started a football game since high school.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...