Jump to content
Washington Football Team Logo
Extremeskins

49ers are what I thought Redskins would be until they found franchise QB


NoCalMike

Recommended Posts

Strong defense, good running game, question mark at QB who has to have an offensive coordinator that isn't going to ask much of him to make the system go.

The 49ers' offense is about as vanilla as you will see in the NFL, however because of their running game's way of working despite opposing defenses knowing that it is all about stopping the run.

I am tired of hearing people rave about how well Alex Smith has "become" when the simple fact is, when you look at his actual production, he is benefitting 100% from a running game that usually has the offense in 2nd/3rd & short. Frank Gore is #3 rusher in the NFL right now.

Must I remind people about 2008's 6-2 start being based on Portis being the NFC's leading rusher through the first 6-8 weeks of the season. Then a few lineman go down, Portis gets "hurt" the running game suffers and the offense never rebounds.

I'll still be curious to see how the 49ers' offense responds when they run into a team that can consistently stop the running game. (Baltimore on Thanksgiving?) and Alex Smith is forced to step up and be the FOCUS on offense.

All that aside, I think the 49ers are showing that not having a franchise QB doesn't mean your team has to end up as bad on offense as the 'Skins are right now. You have to have a "competent" QB, but not a franchise QB, and when you only have a 2nd rate QB you need to have the pieces in place for a dominant running game.

The ultimate goal will always be to have a franchise QB, but in the years where it doesn't happen, it doesn't necessarily mean you should settle for a 6-10 season.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There's more than just QB that separates us and San Francisco. The 49ers have about a 4 year head start on us in terms of serious rebuilding, one of the best running backs in the game, and went into the season with more continuity on both sides of the ball to build off of.

Agreed, San Fran is the superior team on both sides of the ball. In addition, Alex Smith is superior to both John Beck and Rex Grossman. I'll also add that I don't think the 49ers are going to make much noise in the post season. If they do, then they'll prove a lot of people wrong about needing a franchise QB. I do agree with the OP that you don't have to settle for a 6-10 season if you don't have a franchise QB, but we're still a sub-mediocre team even without considering the QB position.

I really don't care about dominating a terrible division in the regular season, which is all the 49ers have done up to this point. I want a legit contender, and that most likely requires a franchise QB to do that consistently. I am highly interested in how the 49ers season turns out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The 49ers have only played one divisional game so far.

I knew that. And whatever, I still stand by my both of my assertions that (1) 49ers haven't done anything to prove that you don't need a franchise QB to be a contender, and (2) they are better than the Redskins b/c they are the superior team on both sides of the ball and their non-franchise QB is still much superior to our non-franchise QBs. They have some nice wins over the Bucs and Lions and I would be much happier with their roster than ours. What I got out of the OP is that the Redskins should be just like the 49ers and I don't agree with that. The only similarity is we both have non-franchise QBs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

While Alex Smith isn't a top 10 QB, he's certainly making defenses take into account his ability to hit open receivers and go down field. Something that we don't have now.

Teams don't stack 8-9 in the box against the 49ers because they know Alex Smith can hit someone middle/downfield so that makes Gore more effective. Also, while Gore is a great back - he also benefits and stacks up his yards per carry with 1-2 20+ yard runs to inflate that. It's not like they are left with 3rd and short all the time either.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To be fair, we kind of were like that until our oline got decimated. And Rex kept declining and forcing things. It just fell apart... but we definitely were that way throughout the entire preseason and the first two games of the season (the Giants did stop our running game but they over-compensated for it and we punished them through the air).

It's too bad Rex failed eventually... I really thought he would be great for us and he played like it at times.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

San Fran's offensive line is pretty good and includes a lot of guys who were drafted very high, including left tackle Joe Staley (28th overall), left guard Mike Iupati (17th overall), right guard Chilo Rachal (39th overall), and right tackle Anthony Davis (11th overall). They've also got Vernon Davis and Michael Crabtree to throw the ball to, and Braylon Edwards as their third receiver. Throw in Frank Gore, and you've got a very talented offense with a hole at QB. The 49ers offense has a lot of talent, just not at QB.

The Redskins offense, on other hand ... Seriously, who do we have on offense that scares teams? Fred Davis and that's it. Trent Williams has potential, but potential and production are two very different things. As far as I'm concerned, we've got talent on defense but virtually no proven talent on offense. At least during the early Gibbs years we had guys like Samuels, Jansen, and Thomas along the offensive line, a young Portis at RB, a young Cooley at TE, and a young Moss at WR. We've taken several steps back on offense since then.

The good news is our defense is in fairly good shape personnel wise, Shanny knows we've got serious problems on offense, and we have a full complement of draft picks. We're in for some serious, and much needed, change on offense this offseason.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

49ers have 4 1st rounders on oline

49ers have a proven stud RB

49ers have a top 3 TE in football

49ers have the best MLB in football

49ers have probably the best overall front 7 in football

49ers have been drafting high for almost a decade

they didnt turn into a great team overnight, this whole notion that harbaugh "turned them around in one season" is bozo central. singletary wasnt a great coach, theyve always had a lot of talent, and they finally found the right mix for their squad.

shanahan inherited about 1/10th of what the 49ers had. people need to relax and give shanahan some time, he inherited the worst roster in the NFL, and hes seriously building this team from almost complete scratch.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

They could lose out the rest of the season and still make the playoffs this year. The rest of the NFC Werst has 4 wins combined. That division is such a joke.

They're not doing anything in the postseason though. Alex Smith is nothing more than Jason Campbell circa 2008, and a strong running game means diddly squat come January. Next year they'll be back to sucking while we're on the way up with our new QB.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

They could lose out the rest of the season and still make playoff this year. The rest of NFC Werst has 4 wins combined. That division is such a joke.

They're not doing anything in the postseason though. Alex Smith is nothing more than Jason Campbell circa 2008, and a strong running game means diddly squat come January. Next year they'll be back to sucking while we're on the way up with our new QB.

the second that frank gore gets stopped and the game comes down to alex smith having to play, theyll get smashed. even their fans know it, my friend is a die hard and hes like "yeah, we're not winning games this way every week".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

the second that frank gore gets stopped and the game comes down to alex smith having to play, theyll get smashed. even their fans know it, my friend is a die hard and hes like "yeah, we're not winning games this way every week".

Their first (and last) playoff game is going to be hideous. It's gonna be like the Chiefs/Ravens last year.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Strong defense, good running game, question mark at QB who has to have an offensive coordinator that isn't going to ask much of him to make the system go.

The 49ers' offense is about as vanilla as you will see in the NFL, however because of their running game's way of working despite opposing defenses knowing that it is all about stopping the run.

I disagree with a lot of your views here.

For one the Burgundy and Gold do not have a good running game nor are they committed to running the ball like the 49ers.

You may perceive the 49ers offense as 'vanilla' but many football fans especially those that like the running game will not agree with you.

The 49ers running games is a diverse mix of traps, pulls, lead iso, tosses and some stretch zone.

They bring the running game and passing game with various motions and formation shifts.

They make excellent use of 2 and sometimes 3 TEs as a staple of their offense.

I am tired of hearing people rave about how well Alex Smith has "become" when the simple fact is, when you look at his actual production, he is benefitting 100% from a running game that usually has the offense in 2nd/3rd & short. Frank Gore is #3 rusher in the NFL right now.

Frank Gore was there last year and the year before etc.

Why try to deny or diminish the obvious truth?

Alex Smith is playing well there is no denying it.

Sure, we must have to give credit to Harbaugh and staff for the schematic improvements that allowing for Alex Smith to play at a high level but Smith himself deserves credit for his production and play as well.

Must I remind people about 2008's 6-2 start being based on Portis being the NFC's leading rusher through the first 6-8 weeks of the season. Then a few lineman go down, Portis gets "hurt" the running game suffers and the offense never rebounds.
The loss of those lineman will is imo to this day at the heart of our offensive troubles.

We lost a pro-bowl LT (Samuel) and a pro-bowl G (Thomas) and a pro-bowl RT(Jansen).

Actually this highlights another huge difference between the 49ers and us.

They are heavily invested along the OL and get to reap the benefits therein.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

San Fran's offensive line is pretty good and includes a lot of guys who were drafted very high, including left tackle Joe Staley (28th overall), left guard Mike Iupati (17th overall), right guard Chilo Rachal (39th overall), and right tackle Anthony Davis (11th overall). They've also got Vernon Davis and Michael Crabtree to throw the ball to, and Braylon Edwards as their third receiver. Throw in Frank Gore, and you've got a very talented offense with a hole at QB. The 49ers offense has a lot of talent, just not at QB.

The Redskins offense, on other hand ... Seriously, who do we have on offense that scares teams? Fred Davis and that's it. Trent Williams has potential, but potential and production are two very different things. As far as I'm concerned, we've got talent on defense but virtually no proven talent on offense. At least during the early Gibbs years we had guys like Samuels, Jansen, and Thomas along the offensive line, a young Portis at RB, a young Cooley at TE, and a young Moss at WR. We've taken several steps back on offense since then.

The good news is our defense is in fairly good shape personnel wise, Shanny knows we've got serious problems on offense, and we have a full complement of draft picks. We're in for some serious, and much needed, change on offense this offseason.

This. :point2sky

Shanny can focus on the offense in terms of personnel, scheme, etc. It's almost the reverse of his situation in Denver.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

They have one of the best lines in the game with a great RB. We have an average line a below average RB and a WAY below QB. Like others have said they are way ahead of us right now. I think they will be big time exposed when they play the Giants this week.

Not to surre about that. Their defense has the ability to stifle Eli and the G-Men. And Frank Gore will get his yards. It'll be a low scoring game but i can see SF winning 17-13.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In my original post I said the 49ers team is what I thought we would be like, not what we ARE like.

Also, for those that think Alex Smith is better than Grossman, you need to go back and watch him from previous years when Gore was either injured or their running game was being stopped. He is about as poor a decision maker as there is among starting NFL QBs. Like I said, 2nd & 3, 3rd & 1 makes a world of difference to the QB, when he can drop by and flick in 2 yards for a 1st down every single time. Alex Smith didn't suddenly get good, just as Trent Dilfer didn't suddenly become a good QB on the Ravens. Or Grossman on the Bears Superbowl team etc etc etc

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree with NoCalMike. Alex Smith is just managing the games to not make mistakes per head coach instructions. He and JC are the same type of quarterback. I really thought the 49ers and Skins were quite similar going into the start of the season. I still think the 49ers will come back down to earth beginning this Sunday when they play the Giants. Also they have had no serious injuries yet. I am concerned that Harbaugh has a way to get Andrew Luck next year but lets hope I am wrong. The 49ers will lose their first playoff game because they cannot make big plays in the passing game. I am surprised that Rogers has not been beaten too often (yet).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

for all the alex smith critics, quick- how many TD's and INT's has he thrown over the last 28 games he's started?

42 TD's, 24 INT's. and, that, in his 3rd offensive system over that span.

as a skins fan, i'd kill for QB #'s like that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I didn't mean to make it sound like I am saying Alex Smith is not playing well in his current role. He definitely, is, and is making the most of his opportunity. However, we have seen other QBs do this in the past. Jason Campbell has had seasons where he limits mistakes and lets the people around him do the work. How about Kyle Orton? Same thing.

Not every QB on a winning team is a great QB. Some of them just have to be game managers, not do anything to screw up the team.

I was really hoping our running game would take the next step in 2011, which would have allowed Grossman to merely be a game manager, but it didn't, and then add in the injuries over the past month, and it changed the QB's role in this offense a ton. No longer can Rex or Beck get away with simply "not making mistakes"

If the question is, Can Alex Smith "manage the game and limit mistakes" sure. I would say yes. However, point to a game this season where Gore has been stopped and Alex Smith had to drive the team down the field for a score or two in order for the team to win.

Alex Smith is still Alex Smith, however he is just being asked to do a lot less and with that defense and running game he is afforded that opportunity where as Rex wasn't and Beck isn't.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not to surre about that. Their defense has the ability to stifle Eli and the G-Men. And Frank Gore will get his yards. It'll be a low scoring game but i can see SF winning 17-13.

If we had a QB we would have beat them. Guys were open and Beck had the time to find them. I think the Giants are going to beat them up pretty good. But thats JMO

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As goes the offensive line, so goes the offense. A team can go a long, long way with a great offensive line, at least two top notch receivers and any average QB who can throw the ball, occasionally with accuracy. See Doug Williams, Mark Rypien, Joe Theismann.

We talk about coaches making the difference and the only guy half the fans see is the qb. But in reality, the primary reason for the 49ers success is the young, and talented, offensive line. Youth is useless without talent. The Skins have only put one top notch player on the offensive line. The rest are all late round draft choices or other team's castoffs. They were cast off because they weren't that good. And now the Skins are trying to win games with them. The reason there's no running game and no passing game is because there's no OL. Yes, the QB is not that good, but put him on the 49ers and his numbers would be the same as Smith's. Give any NFL QB all day to throw and give him some receivers that create separation and suddenly you have a good team.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...