Elmerz Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 I am curious to gauge my opinion against other ES members. With McNabb flaming out badly last year, I really thought (and still do) we were going about this re-build the proper way. This is the first year in 10+ years of miserable drafting and FA signings we have begun to create a perennial contender. In my opinion QB should be the absolute last piece implemented on a team that needed help on both sides of the ball at almost every position. Not mad at Bruce and Shanny for blanking on a QB this year. Of course they cannot come out and tell the fan base we are putting a stop gap under center and focusing on building the rest of the team.... Do not expect anything this year. This is the master plan in my opinion. Makes sense to me, just has not been stated by the front office. What were our options? Rookie? Hassleback? Kolb? It is obvious this is a re-build. Sure, we would all like a competitive re-build. But, with the most important part of a football team being QB in limbo that makes it virtually impossible to be competitive. I for one was one of the posters that loved our draft and was the, "build inside out" guy. We needed to stabilize this team before any rookie QB gets behind the wheel. If you disagree please explain a scenario in which we could have been successful this year any other way. Also, for anyone calling for Shanny and Co. to be fired you seriously must consider turning in your fan card. Start over again?!?! Really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 I think it's the piece you build first, along with the offensive line. They are priorities 1A/1AA and should be built simultaenously. The DL and LBs fit somewhere in that mix as well. The rest is peripheral stuff that great players can only help in, but you can be halfway decent with average players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 You take the QB when you have one who is the BPA in the draft, just as you might fill the LT, the RB, or any other position. The draft isn't Home Depot -- just go shopping and pick up what you need. When you reach to fill a need, you're wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
authentic Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 I agree, i think you start with the QB/Oline and then the Dline. Those are perhaps the 3 most critical parts when laying the foundation. The skill positions should come at any order that you prefer AFTER the QB and the lines are addressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USS Redskins Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 Cincinnati has now passed the skins - one of the most incompetent and disatrous teams in the last 20 years saw what Shanny and Co didnt with that pick: a playmaker... Shanny sat on his hands and is well into his 5 year plan of not drafting a QB until year 3... Brilliant!!!!! Its strange that around the league plenty of teams have 1-2 year turnarounds... BTW - anyone that thinks a 5 year plan is acceptable should hand in the NFL fan card. Only positive thoughts are allowed, I guess. But in the last few days I have kind of changed my mind on drafting a QB... I would hate for anyone that staked their reputation on Grossman to groom a young QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahons21 Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 I think it all depends on what happens in the draft. Had Andy Dalton been available with our 2nd rd pick, I'm fairly certain we would have taken him. But since the Redskins were in the early stages of a re-build and had holes across the board the truly could take the BPA in most situations. This year is not different in my opinion, the Redskins still have holes across the board and BPA should remain the approach. However, I expect with the projected mass of QB's coming out in the 1st round the Redskins will probably be in a position where the QB is the BPA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLongshot Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 I think it all depends on what happens in the draft. Had Andy Dalton been available with our 2nd rd pick, I'm fairly certain we would have taken him. But since the Redskins were in the early stages of a re-build and had holes across the board the truly could take the BPA in most situations. This year is not different in my opinion, the Redskins still have holes across the board and BPA should remain the approach. However, I expect with the projected mass of QB's coming out in the 1st round the Redskins will probably be in a position where the QB is the BPA. That being said, we are two years into this, and we don't even have a late round pick who is in the queue. One thing that I did agree with Zorn about was that you should always be bringing in young QBs to develop, because you never know when you might need them. Gibbs did that back in the day. New England does that now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmerz Posted November 4, 2011 Author Share Posted November 4, 2011 Cincinnati has now passed the skins - one of the most incompetent and disatrous teams in the last 20 years saw what Shanny and Co didnt with that pick: a playmaker... Shanny sat on his hands and is well into his 5 year plan of not drafting a QB until year 3... Brilliant!!!!! Its strange that around the league plenty of teams have 1-2 year turnarounds... BTW - anyone that thinks a 5 year plan is acceptable should hand in the NFL fan card. Only positive thoughts are allowed, I guess. But in the last few days I have kind of changed my mind on drafting a QB... I would hate for anyone that staked their reputation on Grossman to groom a young QB. You hindsight guys are hilarious. Show me one person that said we should have taken Andy Dalton as our QB of the future. Do you want to gamble? Or do you want as close to a lock at the position as possible? Stop with the Andy Dalton stuff!! Cooley was right about our fan base. ---------- Post added November-4th-2011 at 11:11 AM ---------- I think it all depends on what happens in the draft. Had Andy Dalton been available with our 2nd rd pick, I'm fairly certain we would have taken him. But since the Redskins were in the early stages of a re-build and had holes across the board the truly could take the BPA in most situations. This year is not different in my opinion, the Redskins still have holes across the board and BPA should remain the approach. However, I expect with the projected mass of QB's coming out in the 1st round the Redskins will probably be in a position where the QB is the BPA. Another hindsight guy. So, A. Dalton is the next Brady? Not one person wanted Dalton as our QB of the future. Do you want to wait a year or two for a franchise QB while we build our team? Or do you want to draft another Ramsey/Campbell?? Who I might add may have been serviceable if we built the rest of our team first! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrecker Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 You take the QB when you have one who is the BPA in the draft, just as you might fill the LT, the RB, or any other position. The draft isn't Home Depot -- just go shopping and pick up what you need. When you reach to fill a need, you're wrong. I agree on BPA except when it come to QB's. If the QB that the Head coach/OC likes is there when they pick, they pick him regardless as long as the QB is graded in the round they are picking or it is within a few picks of adjacent rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticVillain Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 I think both methods have been proven true. So what Shanahan did this off-season, I really can't argue with it. I know he wanted Dalton, but if he felt that he didn't want to pay too much to get him, then so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmerz Posted November 4, 2011 Author Share Posted November 4, 2011 I think it's the piece you build first, along with the offensive line. They are priorities 1A/1AA and should be built simultaenously.The DL and LBs fit somewhere in that mix as well. The rest is peripheral stuff that great players can only help in, but you can be halfway decent with average players. How can you say first? You want to have your rookie QB killed and lose all confidence? Or do you want your rookie QB to be behind a beast of an o-line that has worked together for 2 years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 You get a QB when a) you need a QB and you can ****ing get a QB. This is not difficult. Also, I actually find myself agreeing with Longshot. There should always be a young late roundish QB in the pipeline. Other teams have shown that if you develop them at all, you can always - at the very least - flip them for a higher pick than you used on them. Sometimes, they turn into Tony Romo sits to pee. Once every 30 years, they turn into Tom Brady. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLongshot Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 How can you say first? You want to have your rookie QB killed and lose all confidence? Or do you want your rookie QB to be behind a beast of an o-line that has worked together for 2 years? What you want is to have your rookie sitting behind a caretaker QB for at least a little while. Also, not all teams start off at square one. There are often servicable players who can help things along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 I agree on BPA except when it come to QB's. If the QB that the Head coach/OC likes is there when they pick, they pick him regardless as long as the QB is graded in the round they are picking or it is within a few picks of adjacent rounds. I define "BPA" as the best player available who fits the scheme, and position value figures in also. So, the QB the HC likes is probably going to grade out as the BPA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattFancy Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 You take the QB when you have one who is the BPA in the draft, just as you might fill the LT, the RB, or any other position. The draft isn't Home Depot -- just go shopping and pick up what you need. When you reach to fill a need, you're wrong. Perfect explanation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticVillain Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 How can you say first? You want to have your rookie QB killed and lose all confidence? Or do you want your rookie QB to be behind a beast of an o-line that has worked together for 2 years? It worked for the Cowboys and Colts...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmerz Posted November 4, 2011 Author Share Posted November 4, 2011 You get a QB when you can ****ing get a QB.This is not difficult. Not difficult? So what do you suggest? We could have had one last year with our Kerrigan pick. Should we have taken one? ---------- Post added November-4th-2011 at 11:22 AM ---------- It worked for the Cowboys and Colts...... I guess you mean Aikman and Manning? Two virtual locks at QB, and yes.....if Peyton Manning/Luck type is available you grab him regardless of your situation. But, they were not available last year we can all agree on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slateman Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 QBs take longer to develop. Draft one early in the rebuild. By the time you have the other pieces ready, your QB will he NFL ready. Or a bust. Either way, you'll know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 How can you say first? You want to have your rookie QB killed and lose all confidence? Or do you want your rookie QB to be behind a beast of an o-line that has worked together for 2 years? Do you think Carolina asked itself any of those questions? Or did Carolina watch Cam Newton work out and say, "Jesus Christ!! We need this guy!" All young QBs get beat up. It's part of the transition to the NFL. Ideally, you would rather have them not go through a David Carr Experience. But David Carr was going to get beat up wherever he played because he had no idea what he was doing in the pocket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattFancy Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 I don't think you take a QB just to take one. You draft one that you believe fits your system and can be a franchise guy for years to come. Sure we could've taken Gabbert, but what has Gabbert done so far that says he would've been great here? There was no way we were going to get Cam. I don't think Shanny wanted to reach for Dalton or Ponder either. We'll have plenty of good QBs to choose from this year. Luck, Jones, Barkley, Griffin, Tannehill, etc. I don't think any of the experts thought highly of the QBs taken in the 2011 draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrecker Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 I define "BPA" as the best player available who fits the scheme, and position value figures in also. So, the QB the HC likes is probably going to grade out as the BPA. Ok, well I am saying that if the QB is the third or forth BPA on the teams board and it is the QB you want, you take him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USS Redskins Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 Right, right - NO ONE wanted Dalton... nobody said he was worth a pick. Well, I was pretty hot that night when they passed... no hindsight about it. They blew it. They probably could have gotten Kerrigan as well... but well, that could be a reach. That decision (along with taking no QB prospects) and the McNabb disaster set the team back yet again. Great move Mike - but those "real fans" just love you for it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmerz Posted November 4, 2011 Author Share Posted November 4, 2011 You take the QB when you have one who is the BPA in the draft, just as you might fill the LT, the RB, or any other position. The draft isn't Home Depot -- just go shopping and pick up what you need. When you reach to fill a need, you're wrong. Yes, agreed.....Was that QB available in last years draft? No, and this is why Shanny did the right thing passing on QB and building the rest of the team. He knew this year was going to be a disaster at QB. How can he come out and say it though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 Not difficult? So what do you suggest? We could have had one last year with our Kerrigan pick. Should we have taken one I think we should have taken Mallett in the second. Obviously, getting a QB pick correct is a challenge. The fact that Shanahan seems adament about NOT picking a QB makes it a slightly bigger challenge. The two QBs I absolutely did not like last year were Gabbert and Dalton. I was wrong on Dalton, I think. I suspect I am right on Gabbert. I actually thought Mallett was #2 overall, behind Newton. And I was on the record that I was glad I was not in the position of picking Newton because he seemed like a huge risk/reward pick at #1 overall. Once Mallett fell out of the first round, I assumed that there would be a mad scramble for him. Once he fell to the third round, I thought everyone had gotten stupid at once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 the answer depends on the team. This team needed to be burned to the ground and rebuilt from ash. Lots of teams who rebuild don't have to do that. For some teams it makes sense to go with the QB,. For others it makes more sense to go elsewhere. There is no set formula. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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