petedaddy Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 I have been in hiding since the end of the Bills game. Obviously Sunday was disappointing to say the least. Anyways, I did a search about this topic and didn't see anything posted about this, but I thought this was one of the most telling and pertinent things I've heard recently, and wanted to hear other opinions. On the Comcast post game show, they interviewed left tackle Sean Locklear. Kelli Johnson interviewed him first, and then they went to the booth and Trevor Matich basically asked Locklear about the x's and o's of what the Bills defense was doing to stop the Redskins, and one of his comments was that the Bills "out play-called us." Here is a link to the interview. http://www.csnwashington.com/sportsnetWashington/search/v/47838956/locklear-they-out-play-called-us.htm The question from Trevor Matich happened around the 2:22 mark. Here is the exact transcript: Trevor Matich: "When defenses stop the run, sometimes they don't do anything, sometimes they'll bring an extra defender into the box, sometimes they'll run certain stunts or blitzes designed to stop the run. From an x's and o's standpoint, what was it that they were doing that made it so difficult to run against them?" Sean Locklear: "Um, you know, in the beginning it was a break down by us, and then uh, then they uh, and then they started you know mixing up uh defenses. They did a lot of line movement, they did some blitzing, and they weren't, I think they figured out they weren't going to let us run the ball, and then in the beginning they just, you know, out play-called us." When I heard that, I was just blown away. Am I reading way too much into this that our own players feel that we were out play-called? I feel that our play calling has been incredibly predictable. Now, I don't want to just isolate Kyle Shanahan on this, Jim Haslett's play calling has been incredibly predictable the last few weeks as well. I'm not sure, but I think they may have a 10 million dollar bet to see who can get fired first, and Kyle knows he has to be incredibly awful for daddy to fire him. The other thing that caught my eye on this is that he said in the beginning we were out play-called. As many of us feel on here, we don't make any in game adjustments. If we are coming out with bad play calling in the beginning, is that a sign that we are coming into a game with a lack of preparedness? That spells bad news if we can't come into a game with a strong plan, and we can't make in game adjustments. What are your guys thoughts on this? Maybe I'm just looking for something to make sense of this all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitman21ST Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 You can't open up the playbook when you can't execute the simple plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskins4ever Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 It's clear that the Redskins are like a pop warner team without it's starters on offense. With that said, the defense still should be able to play better than it has the last 3 games. For five straight weeks the Redskins defense was ranked no lower than sixth. After the bye week, they have given up a lot of yards, and more points than they did before the bye. Is there something totally insufficient about the players on offense? Is it the play calling? Or is it the coaching? Whatever the hell is wrong needs to be fixed and in a hurry. The season hasn't gotten away yet, but it could and real fast if this team keeps playing like they don't belong in the NFL. It all starts with Mike Shanahan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petedaddy Posted November 1, 2011 Author Share Posted November 1, 2011 You can't open up the playbook when you can't execute the simple plays. Well part of the problem could be that the opposing defenses know where the Redskins are going to run before they snap the ball. If that is the case, then it doesn't really matter what you execute. Brian Mitchell made a few comments on the post game show that he felt that the Bills defense had a good idea of what run we were bringing. Who knows if that is the case or not, but it's interesting to think that the Bills defense coming off a bye can figure out what we are going to call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaRonDontLikeUgly Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 Well part of the problem could be that the opposing defenses know where the Redskins are going to run before they snap the ball. If that is the case, then it doesn't really matter what you execute. Brian Mitchell made a few comments on the post game show that he felt that the Bills defense had a good idea of what run we were bringing.Who knows if that is the case or not, but it's interesting to think that the Bills defense coming off a bye can figure out what we are going to call. The reason they knew we were going to run the ball and keep passes under 12 yards was because they saw John Beck react in the pocket. If his beady gerbil eyes and rosy red cheeks didn't show you how flustered he was, then you probably should have been tipped off by the play-calling and subsequent execution of the plays called. We are playing scared because we have no choice with the worst starting QB in the NFL. (Yes, I'd rather have Tebow.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petedaddy Posted November 1, 2011 Author Share Posted November 1, 2011 The reason they knew we were going to run the ball and keep passes under 12 yards was because they saw John Beck react in the pocket.If his beady gerbil eyes and rosy red cheeks didn't show you how flustered he was, then you probably should have been tipped off by the play-calling and subsequent execution of the plays called. We are playing scared because we have no choice with the worst starting QB in the NFL. (Yes, I'd rather have Tebow.) It's not just about running the ball, it's about where you run the ball, who you block, who pulls, etc. Also, the play calling has been a long term problem. It's not a John Beck problem. I don't think this has anything to do with John Beck, Rex Grossman, Donovan McNabb, Jason Campbell, Patrick Ramsey, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaRonDontLikeUgly Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 It's not just about running the ball, it's about where you run the ball, who you block, who pulls, etc. Also, the play calling has been a long term problem. It's not a John Beck problem. I don't think this has anything to do with John Beck, Rex Grossman, Donovan McNabb, Jason Campbell, Patrick Ramsey, etc. True, but the guys who were calling the plays for Ramsey and Campbell aren't relevant to this conversation. All the while, the current coaching staff has been preaching the system and leaning towards players they believe fit the system. McNabb apparently didn't have the mental capacity/correct throwing motion/whatever else to run the system... Grossman moved the ball but was too inconsistent to run the system.... Beck has all of the 'tools' to run the system but is just a horrible football player. My biggest problem with Beck is that the Shanahan's have put so much blind faith in this dude to the media---- it seems like they are finally willing to BEND their own system so that he doesn't look as bad as he is. Having a ton of pride as a football team is a great thing... but having too much as a coaching staff to play the best guy is just downright ****ed up. I will be a raving, foaming at the mouth, homer lunatic every day that I breathe air on this earth.... but watching John Beck run this offense is like watching my girlfriend **** my best friend in my parents bed. It hurts man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stricknine Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 I will be a raving, foaming at the mouth, homer lunatic every day that I breathe air on this earth.... but watching John Beck run this offense is like watching my girlfriend **** my best friend in my parents bed. It hurts man. Awesome analogy! I feel the exact same way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petedaddy Posted November 1, 2011 Author Share Posted November 1, 2011 True, but the guys who were calling the plays for Ramsey and Campbell aren't relevant to this conversation. All the while, the current coaching staff has been preaching the system and leaning towards players they believe fit the system. McNabb apparently didn't have the mental capacity/correct throwing motion/whatever else to run the system... Grossman moved the ball but was too inconsistent to run the system.... Beck has all of the 'tools' to run the system but is just a horrible football player. My biggest problem with Beck is that the Shanahan's have put so much blind faith in this dude to the media---- it seems like they are finally willing to BEND their own system so that he doesn't look as bad as he is. Having a ton of pride as a football team is a great thing... but having too much as a coaching staff to play the best guy is just downright ****ed up. I will be a raving, foaming at the mouth, homer lunatic every day that I breathe air on this earth.... but watching John Beck run this offense is like watching my girlfriend **** my best friend in my parents bed. It hurts man. I was just being facetious with the Campbell and Ramsey thing. I understand your opinion on Beck, but I also think we need to realize that he has only started a few NFL games. He basically has the same starting experience as Blaine Gabbert. If we had just drafted Gabbert last year, and he had the stinker against Buffalo that Beck did, then I believe most of us would just chalk it up to having a rookie QB. I know you can say Beck has been in the league a few years, but still nothing is going to take the place of real NFL game experience. I'm not saying Beck is the franchise QB, but I also think you are being a little harsh on a guy in his second Redskins start. I didn't expect this to turn into another Beck vs Grossman thread. I was just astonished at what Sean Locklear said about the play calling. That has nothing to do with Beck or Grossman. My point was if the Bills knew what we were calling, as Locklear implied, then where does that leave us as a team. A lot of us have speculated about Kyle Shanahan not having the tools to be a great play caller, and this seems to back up that theory and comes direct from a player. Again, I may be reading too much into it, but I did find it crazy that he said that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toe Jam Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 You can't open up the playbook when you can't execute the simple plays. EDIT: NVM. This has already been discussed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirt Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 The playbook will work when it works. It'll work for 3 or 5 more wins (that's not saying much) And doing it with the QBs we have and Oline problems makes it very difficult to do. I'm trying really hard to just look at the Bills game as a loss and not a shutout. I think the key is making sure we're ready from the get-go because when you're down 14 quickly, your playcalling plans are out the window. So yea, preparedness could be in question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE HAMMER'IN HOG Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 The biggest problem I saw was the inability to block the blitz, the Bills continually were running free at the QB, O-line coach what are you being payed for? A QB also needs the mental aptitude to be able to change protections when things don't go as you expect, this really needs to be addresses because the inability to not only be prepared for what the Bills threw at us, but the inability to adjust was even more telling. It's one thing to be beaten man to man because your up against a superior player, it's another to be beaten because you just don't know where to be when a defense changes up on you which is a lot of what happened on Sunday. Now from a play calling standpoint when you see your line is having trouble picking up everyone you have to leave someone in the backfield to pickup at least 1 defender running free, to many times I saw an empty backfield or a RB with no intentions of blocking just trying to get out of the backfield for a pass, it would have also been beneficial to continue to call for a lot of roll outs for Beck to get him into open space and give him a little more time and comfort, which would then allow your RB to get back into the pass play if for nothing more than a quick check down and a few yards, we have a lot to reevaluate after the Bills put a huge light on all of our weaknesses! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildbill1952 Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 So do you fix QB first, OL second, WR third? Or do you go OL, WR, QB? The pocket collapsed around Beck all day. Putting any QB back there would have been disheartening and had similar, if not identical, results.. I've always felt that if the team kept drafting one or two OL every year in the first 4 rounds, that eventually they would have an OL with depth within 3 years. And I still feel you can't judge the QB play with the abysmal level of the OL play, but I don't see drafting an OL in the top 8 picks (which is where we are headed). But the WR are every bit as bad as the OL. I hope to see at least 3 of the first 4 picks to be additions to the OL next year. It won't happen, but the retreads the Skins have on the OL aren't cutting it, whether the opponents know the play or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyvern Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 From what I saw, the o-line wasn't being out-coached -- they were being beaten in their one-on-one assignments. There were times when the blocking schemes failed to adjust to what the Bills were changing into, wouldn't much of that on Cook? Of course, Shanhan could have kept his running backs in all the time to block and help out the porous offensive line , but that really limits your options on offense. All I know, is I saw the Redskins offensive linemen usually winding up getting pile-driven down behind the line of scrimmage, on running plays. Alternatively in their pass protection assignments, I saw a lot of them standing around looking foolish on pass plays that weren't screens, while Beck was getting hammered within less than 2.5 seconds. And on those the few occasions when pass protection did hold up, the receivers (except Davis) weren't getting any separation, and Beck was then getting in trouble for 'holding the ball too long.' As for the running game, it's important to understand that Torain isn't as quick to accelerate as Hightower -- he needs to build up momentum first. It's hard for him to do that when he first have to take a few steps backward, to avoid his offensive linemen who are being pushed back into his running lane. Before he tries blaming the coaches, maybe Locklear needs to acknowledge that the offensive line didn't grade out well in their individual performances -- they needed to bring more into this game. And maybe they should leave Montgomery at Center and find another Left Guard. Cook couldn't do much worse at Guard. PS: I was astonished at how poorly Brown was playing. I don't think he's the answer at LT, much less at RT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsFTW Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 PS: I was astonished at how poorly Brown was playing. Why? He's been garbage since the first game of the season. He BLOWS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselPwr44 Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 Hey Locklear, Maybe if you and Brown weren't getting pushed around like a pair of Walmart shopping carts down aisle ten, maybe the offense could actually be competent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewCliche21 Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 Kyle: *sigh* Okay guys, in this play, I don't care what you do. Really. Do anything. Shoot the guy if you have to. Just don't **** this up! Linemen: . . . no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rook Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 I think it was more about being out-played, than out play called. Man up - your performance blew. :helmet: The Rook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RED06 Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 True, but the guys who were calling the plays for Ramsey and Campbell aren't relevant to this conversation. All the while, the current coaching staff has been preaching the system and leaning towards players they believe fit the system. McNabb apparently didn't have the mental capacity/correct throwing motion/whatever else to run the system... Grossman moved the ball but was too inconsistent to run the system.... Beck has all of the 'tools' to run the system but is just a horrible football player. My biggest problem with Beck is that the Shanahan's have put so much blind faith in this dude to the media---- it seems like they are finally willing to BEND their own system so that he doesn't look as bad as he is. Having a ton of pride as a football team is a great thing... but having too much as a coaching staff to play the best guy is just downright ****ed up. I will be a raving, foaming at the mouth, homer lunatic every day that I breathe air on this earth.... but watching John Beck run this offense is like watching my girlfriend **** my best friend in my parents bed. It hurts man. I get it from your post(s), that you don't like John Beck. But I guess the bigger question is, what does John Beck have to do with the OP post that we where out coached as stated by Locklear? Yet you say the play callers for Ramsey and Campbell aren't relevant to this conversation? I think your whole response to the OP's original post is NOT relevant to the topic at all. Being out coached is on the "coaching staff", NOT John Beck bro. Now if Locklear had mentioned John Beck in his statement, which he didn't. Then I can see relevance in your response. But you're turning a thread about being out coached, to a QB (Anti-John Beck thread). That's like saying man Gaffney has ALOT of passes dropped. Then your response is, he's dropping them because John Becks beaty eyes and red cheeks is throwing him the ball. IF Andrew Luck was throwing him the ball, he would've caught them. And that was just an example. I'm not implying anything about Gaffney etc. From what I've saw out there as far as threads on this board, there's plenty of anti-John Beck discussions that you can vent in. But it gets kinda old when EVERY thread is turned into a QB thread. It makes what could be a good debate or discussion into who's the best between Grossman, Beck, Luck, Theisman, Marino, Steve Young, Montana, Sammy Baugh, George Forman Grill, John McCains alligator arms, Sarah Palins sexy perfume, Driving Ms. Daisy, Jennifer Lopez butt, Kim Kardassian pretty legs etc etc etc. See how crazy the end of that started sounding as I went totally OFF subject? Come on fellas, lets keep the thread to our coaching staff being out coached. And we where for the record. Brian Mitchell, Trevor, and the other gentleman said it. RED06 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewCliche21 Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 I get it from yor post(s), that you don't like John Beck. But I guess the bigger question is, what does John Beck have to do with the OP post that we where out coached as stated by Locklear? Yet you say the play callers for Ramsey and Campbell aren't relevant to this conversation? I think your whole response to the OP's original post is NOT relevant to the topic at all. Being out coached is on the "coaching staff", NOT John Beck bro. Now if Locklear had mentioned John Beck in his statement, which he didn't. Then I can see relevance in your response. But you're turning a thread about being out coached, to a QB (Anti-John Beck thread). That's like saying man Gaffney has ALOT of passes dropped. Then your response is, he's dropping them because John Becks beaty eyes and red cheeks is throwing him the ball. IF Andrew Luck was throwing him the ball, he would've caught them. And that was just an example. I'm not implying anything about Gaffney etc. From what I've saw out there as far as threads on this board, there's plenty of anti-John Beck discussions that you can vent in. But it gets kinda old when EVERY thread is turned into a QB thread. It makes what could be a good debate or discussion into who's the best between Grossman, Beck, Luck, Theisman, Marino, Steve Young, Montana, Sammy Baugh, George Forman Grill, John McCains alligator arms, Sarah Palins sexy perfume, Driving Ms. Daisy, Jennifer Lopez butt, Kim Kardasian pretty legs etc etc etc. See how crazy the end of that started sounding as I went TOTALLY off subject? Come on fellas, lets keep the thread to our coaching staff being out coached. And we where for the record. Brian Mitchell, Trevor, and the other gentleman said it. RED06 Bravo, Red! Let's keep it on track. If you don't like Beck, then we get it by now. Your'e not proving a point; you're just getting annoying. Locklear is a coward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RED06 Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 Hey Locklear,Maybe if you and Brown weren't getting pushed around like a pair of Walmart shopping carts down aisle ten, maybe the offense could actually be competent? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL! This made me choke man. And I totally agree that Locklear, Cook, and Brown are the 3 blind mice on this offensive line. Especially Brown, he is the new Stephon Heyer these days. From what I've seen from those guys they should put Mike Sellers out there for Brown LOL. I also think that has limited what we can do as an entire offense in addition to being out coached by opposing team coaching staff. RED06 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forever21 Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 You can't open up the playbook when you can't execute the simple plays. You've got that right. Shanahan has been using the stretch play for ages and like any play in football it can work even if the D thinks it's coming if the players involved execute well. Right now our OL is too depleated to execute well enough. We'll develope OL depth over the next couple of seasons and that should change. The playcalling cannot get more involved until the players execute. If they execute Kyle will open the book up. And that may not happen this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RED06 Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 Bravo, Red! Let's keep it on track. If you don't like Beck, then we get it by now. Your'e not proving a point; you're just getting annoying.Locklear is a coward. My God NewCliche, it gets VERY annoying lol. Every thread seems like it turns back into who's the worst or best QB............And you're right on spot bro, Locklear is a coward. I feel like he's more of a coward for what he said to the media and how he has played on the field. His horrible play on the field gives him no right to passively throw our coaches under the bus. RED06 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs Hog Heaven Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 A veteran that passes the buck instead of taking responsibility for his own inept performance. That, Sean, is another reason why your a back-up on a pretty darn poor line to start with; who's only at this ball club more through default than anything to do with your 'talent.' Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xameil Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 You can't open up the playbook when you can't execute the simple plays. Can't open up the playbook when your left tackle can't hold a block, and your QB is on his back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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