skinsfan_north Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 I went to the game in Toronto and have quite a few observations: (1) I don't think our WR are the problem ... In watching John Beck play he is unable to make the reads quick enough. He is indecisive and holds on to the ball too long. There was one play late in the game (after the game was out of reach) where Helu was waving his arms (looked like he was doing jumping jacks) he was wide open with no one within 20 yards of him. Beck threw the ball at a well covered WR. I know ... Helu is a RB, there were opportunities during the game to hit WRs, it looks as though Beck can only hit them when they are at the end of a route and not while they are in the midst of running the route. Beck also keys in on a target too often. (2) We will not win without either a stellar offensive line or a large upgrade at the QB position. Although John Beck was aweful, our offensive line with all the injuries was not very good. Not all the sacks were on John Beck, and the line was unable to open holes for the RB. (3) Torain can't break tackles. Big difference watching Fred Jackson run and Torain ... speed and broken tackles from Jackson, whereas Torain goes down on the first hit. (4) Defense scheme, Haslett should have put pressue on Fitzpatrick, but did not blitz much (if he did blitz, it was not noticeable). (5) LB - our LB (outside of Fletcher who was awesome) need to tackle better. McIntosh missed on a few which led to big running plays. I firmly believe that the coaching staff should be playing the young players ... I have no idea why we are playing Stallworth. Hankerson, Paul, Austin should all be playing more now and Helu should be the number one back ... we need to see what we have in our young players. Without a QB and with our injuries on the OLine it is unlikely that this will turn around this year. The only way we make a push is if these young players are very good. Hard to believe we are faced with another year of early optimism turning into a season where the likes of teams with Rookie QBs outperform us ... even the Vikings look like they are improving now with Ponder. Cinci with Dalton, Carolina with Newton. Hopefully something magical happens down the road, but unfortunately the schedule gets more difficult from here on out. Hail! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 (3) Torain can't break tackles. Big difference watching Fred Jackson run and Torain ... speed and broken tackles from Jackson, whereas Torain goes down on the first hit. You must not have watched Torrain in all his other games. The one thing he was really good at was bulling through the first guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Wait... I thought yesterday was the Redskins' bye week? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsCrushCowboys Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 At least the game sucked as much in person as it did in HD..I was hoping that maybe the 55 HD just made them look worse.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingGibbs Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 You must not have watched Torrain in all his other games. The one thing he was really good at was bulling through the first guy. What does that have to do with yesterday? Why fans keep holding onto minimal success from individual players is a mystery to me. We are not getting consisitency and that's what you need in the NFL to succeed. (obviously) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins26 Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 I just wonder how hard it is to find a QB with some pocket presence. It's to the point now where I don't care if he has a noodle arm as long as he knows how to move around in the pocket and not run into sacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 What does that have to do with yesterday? Why fans keep holding onto minimal success from individual players is a mystery to me. We are not getting consisitency and that's what you need in the NFL to succeed. (obviously) Nah, you can't make a statement saying this guy can't do "x" ever and have it stick and then say only yesterday's game counts. Torrain's broken plenty of tackles this year. He can't really make guys miss, but that complaint was way off base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 I went to the game in Toronto My condolences to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbyst21 Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 You could see on TV that there were open receivers. Yet Beck had determined who he was throwing the ball to in the huddle REGARDLESS of coverage. We should play the remaining games with a single wideout formation if he's our guy behind center. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DM72 Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 My condolences to you. LOL. I'm sooooo glad I didn't make that trip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss_Hogg Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 I saw a ton of open receivers on several drives, it's amazing Beck refused to scan the field, instead he focused on one WR then threw the ball. Beck has ZERO vision, he's much worse than Campbell in that regard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 For all the angst over play-calling, some of it legitimate, (but probably the most misplaced topic of attack for most football fans who have no clue on the matter despite what their ego tells them they know), people were open consistently throughout the day, which is amazing considering the injuries on offense and the limited experience of some of the players and the still-evolving system under a rebuild. Now whether it was all Beck, or not enough protection and time to read and think (even quickly) or what, I can only hope the coaches can determine which is in need of what and continue to improve. But yes, people were frequently open and not utilized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2v2nv Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 (1) I don't think our WR are the problem ... In watching John Beck play he is unable to make the reads quick enough. He is indecisive and holds on to the ball too long. There was one play late in the game (after the game was out of reach) where Helu was waving his arms (looked like he was doing jumping jacks) he was wide open with no one within 20 yards of him. Beck threw the ball at a well covered WR. I know ... Helu is a RB, there were opportunities during the game to hit WRs, it looks as though Beck can only hit them when they are at the end of a route and not while they are in the midst of running the route. Beck also keys in on a target too often. (2) We will not win without either a stellar offensive line or a large upgrade at the QB position. Although John Beck was aweful, our offensive line with all the injuries was not very good. Not all the sacks were on John Beck, and the line was unable to open holes for the RB. I have no idea why we are playing Stallworth. Hankerson, Paul, Austin should all be playing more now and Helu should be the number one back ... we need to see what we have in our young players. Without a QB and with our injuries on the OLine it is unlikely that this will turn around this year. The only way we make a push is if these young players are very good. Hail! I agree. I think SOME of the problem was that Beck looked terrified. Being sacked 9 times will freak you out but he couldn't control his nerves. I just can't understand why he kept trying to pick up huge yardage on long routes when he knew they were bringing pressure. It almost reminded me of Rex's last game. We DESPERATELY need to obtain the idea that if you don't perform, you need to sit and see if some other combination works. I wouldn't mind losing if we were gaining experience with rookies. When we have Stallworth and Gaffney out there looking like a bums, it ticks me off to see them play for most of the game. It was also apparent that Torain wasn't bringing anything (probably because of the Oline) so I would have thrown Helu in there just to see what would have happened. The biggest thing that makes me want to drop this team (even though I'd never do it) is the fact that it looks like we give up halfway through the game. In the fourth quarter our guys were just sitting in the huddle and running through the entire snap count letting the clock run down with like 4 min left. We never throw plays to the outside of the field, it was always runs or short passes to the middle. It honestly looked like we had the lead by 20 and was trying to run the clock out. If they had actually made me feel like they had tried in the 4th, I would not be as mad over a 20-0 loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lydon Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 I firmly believe that the coaching staff should be playing the young players ... I have no idea why we are playing Stallworth. Hankerson, Paul, Austin should all be playing more now and Helu should be the number one back ... we need to see what we have in our young players. Without a QB and with our injuries on the OLine it is unlikely that this will turn around this year. The only way we make a push is if these young players are very good. I've seen this thought tossed around quite a few times recently, especially with the receivers. I have no way of knowing what Mike and Kyle are thinking, but if I were to venture a guess, I would say that we are still seeing the vets out there to give Beck a chance to prove if he's got anything. I feel like the last two games were Beck's chances to show he can run the starting offense with the starters in place. Once we have been mathematically eliminated from the playoffs (which appears to be coming pretty soon) I expect to see a lot of rookies getting a lot of PT. Just my :2cents: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aghar Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 I'm not going to deny that on occasion there was a WR open, but the question was when did they get open? After the play was breaking down in the backfield about 2.5 seconds after the ball was snapped? Beck didn't look good by any means but to place the blame on him is crazy. He was hit almost every time he dropped back. That would make Tom Brady "jumpy" in the pocket if you ask me. And since I have seen it posted somewhere in one of these threads I will restate it here. When a defense has its ears pinned back and are teeing off on your QB could we at least try a screen pass to see if it gets us anything? If nothing else, a play where your QB actually remains upright!? :whoknows: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins26 Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 I'm not one for the West Coasters but what about Matt Barkley? Luck is out of the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jivelikenice Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 (1) WR is a problem. Watching on TV our vet wrs were getting ZERO separation. Stallworth and Armstrong don't look like NFL caliber players. Hankerson/ Paul/ Austin should be in there because they have speed. This coaching staff doesn't value speed at all. (2) Agreed (3) Torain is getting hit right when he gets the ball. His performance is being hindered by the line. He is the type of back that needs to get his momentum going to be effective (4) Haslett is terrible- Every week the offesnes we go against come out with a wrinkle to take advantage of what our defense does and we can't adjust. Where are our new looks and wrinkles? (5) Our linebackers do need help but I would say that Kerrigan has proven himself. Rak is playing terribly versus the run and is a good, but absolutely not great pass rusher. Rocky wears down as the season goes along EVERY year. Nothing new there. Put in Fox or Riley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PortisBetts Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 I'm not going to deny that on occasion there was a WR open, but the question was when did they get open? After the play was breaking down in the backfield about 2.5 seconds after the ball was snapped? Beck didn't look good by any means but to place the blame on him is crazy. He was hit almost every time he dropped back. That would make Tom Brady "jumpy" in the pocket if you ask me. And since I have seen it posted somewhere in one of these threads I will restate it here. When a defense has its ears pinned back and are teeing off on your QB could we at least try a screen pass to see if it gets us anything? If nothing else, a play where your QB actually remains upright!? :whoknows: I saw a few replays where the reciever was breaking into an open area and Beck had a second to throw and he would either take a sack or throw to the covered receiver. He didnt have all the time in the world, but he had 3-4 seconds to get rid of the ball. I know i am watching replays, but a pro QB who knows the offense should be able to see the holes in the defense and know tehre is a route going to that area, especially when it is being seen by someone who DOESNT know the offense in replays. He didnt. And he didnt know that consistenetly. I had decent hope for Beck, not that he would turn into a superstar, but that he would be serviceable. Now, he can barely get the ball off becuase he doesnt process it fast enough or he locks onto receivers. Its not Kyle Shanahan. He calls plays, people get open, qb either doesnt throw quick enough or throws to someone who is covered. And for people talking about the line, wait for Trent Williams to come back. Most teams would have a hard time playing without their stud left tackle (that is unless they are playing us, becuase we dont attack weaknesses) Although i do agree that we will still need to draft or develop some depth across the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veretax Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 I'm still wondering where the mobility is in Beck's game. And was the Stadium open? How do you drop the ball when taking off on a late run out of the pocket? Let's face it we are Just not a good TEAM. We could have Joe Montana in there and he'd have had the same results I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grego Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 I Its not Kyle Shanahan. He calls plays, people get open, qb either doesnt throw quick enough or throws to someone who is covered. how about we use becks mobility a little more? we ran some rollouts, we got killed when we tried 5 step drops (at times he held it too long, no question), so why not move the pocket a little more? do we have a screen play? how about we figure out how to get out leading rusher more than 14 yards on 8 carries? im not doubting that WRs are getting open. but i think you could say that about most passing plays in the NFL- somebody is going to be open. i will give beck a little bit of a break yesterday- getting hit 14 times will make a QB skittish. i'd really like to see a breakdown of this game, cuz i heard doc, bmitch and trevor matich say there were times when beck held the ball where we didnt have anyone open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 I'm still wondering where the mobility is in Beck's game. And was the Stadium open? How do you drop the ball when taking off on a late run out of the pocket? Let's face it we are Just not a good TEAM. We could have Joe Montana in there and he'd have had the same results I think. Not true at all. You guys are ignoring posters telling you that receivers WERE open during the game. Hell, with the way the NFL is today, I think I could get "NFL-Open" about 5 snaps a game. For years, posters have said we had guys open. The question is: 1) can the QB get it there 2) can the line protect 3) Can those receivers battle for the ball and make plays after the catch Ok, that's questions but we've OFTEN had decent pass pro, the issue has always and continues to be QB. In the brief moments we've seen QB play, we've had guys get open or even had only one or two open (2005) but still made plays all over the field and see the line NOT look like hot garbage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gortiz Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 (3) Torain can't break tackles. Big difference watching Fred Jackson run and Torain ... speed and broken tackles from Jackson, whereas Torain goes down on the first hit.l! c'mon man. maybe he didn't break tackles this game, and if he didn't it was because he was being met int he backfield. you have seen dude crush people once he get's a little breathing room. earl campbell couldn't break tackles when he was hit right after the handoff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 I've seen this thought tossed around quite a few times recently, especially with the receivers. I have no way of knowing what Mike and Kyle are thinking, but if I were to venture a guess, I would say that we are still seeing the vets out there to give Beck a chance to prove if he's got anything. I feel like the last two games were Beck's chances to show he can run the starting offense with the starters in place. Once we have been mathematically eliminated from the playoffs (which appears to be coming pretty soon) I expect to see a lot of rookies getting a lot of PT.Just my :2cents: But the vets are making just as many bad plays as the younger ones. Armstrong drops passes, Gaffney drops passes and fumbles, Stallworth can't stay on his feet, etc. If they were clearly outplaying the younger WRs, then I think that's a valid point and reason to keep them in...but it doesn't appear that they are. Now, what we can't see is maybe, MAYBE, they are always running the correct routes, etc. while the other guys aren't...but that would be a stretch to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gortiz Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 How do you drop the ball when taking off on a late run out of the pocket? Let's face it we are Just not a good TEAM. . that beck play was our season/team so far in a snapshot. i mean, that is what you see at the end of the year nfl films yearbook, and the narrator says that is the play that typifies the skins season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loxley Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 that beck play was our season/team so far in a snapshot. i mean, that is what you see at the end of the year nfl films yearbook, and the narrator says that is the play that typifies the skins season. As much as it pains me to say it I think you summed it right up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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