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Hope... (and my first post)


skins4ever28

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Let me first off say that even though this is my first post, I have been reading these boards for years. I just never have been the posting type. But after reading the boards and conflicts of the past few weeks, I decided to register an account and post what I feel. Ive been a fan since 1989(I was 5), and seen a superbowl(Even though I was young, I actually had a superbowl party, and had my parents get me a Redskins cake, lol). But dont let that fool you, when I was younger I watched every game I could, and when it wasnt on TV (I live in western PA), then I made sure to watch every Sports Center/highlights show I could. Im an extremely die hard fan, I even have a big tattoo of the Redskins emblem on my forearm, and since 2004, I have not missed a game on TV(Sunday Ticket or sports bar).

That being said, I just wanted to say that I can see what each side is going through right now. I see 50% of the fans say about how this is a rebuilding year, and patience is needed. However, I see the other 50% say how patience is what we have been doing for the past 20 years and every year has been a rebuilding year since 1992. I get it, I really do. Both of you have every right to feel the way you do. Some of you are upset because of the 3-1 start beginning to look like a false hope, and others are feeling that we are rebuilding and are looking decent for what we have. Technically both are right. We are rebuilding every year and it is getting old, but then again, I think this year is different. People forget how bad Jim Zorn and Vinny killed our franchise. I mean absolutely murdered our franchise. But with Shanahan we have a chance to be great again.

He already filled a lot of holes, and got a lot of young players brought in. He has a great eye for talent in late rounds as well. Some of you question Kyle, but in all honesty, Kyle is not the problem at all, if we had a better receiving core and a franchise QB, Kyle would be on top of the world right now. We can get there, we can.

To some of you saying that Shanahan was trying to show how big his ego was by trying to show Grossman or Beck would be the starter and look good in his system. Thats ridiculous. Shanahan didnt start them because of that. He started them because the draft we had needed to fill other holes. And when our 1st round pick came up, Locker was gone, and he didnt like any other QB's. It has nothing to do with ego, so for the people that keep saying that, Im sorry but your wrong. Give Beck a chance too. Heck he threw for 280 yards, a TD and ran for a TD as well, and it was his first game in 4 ytears. So I mean theres always that SMALL chance he could be something special like the next Brady or something (probably not, but hey were Skins fans, we hope for anything). Hes better then Grossman, and I really look forward to seeing how he does now that the rust is more clear.

The reason I pointed this out though, is because the real #1 reason for us having a rebuilding year every season is, whether some of you want to admit it or not, because we dont have a franchise QB. A lot of you agree, and a lot dont. But you need a great to elite QB to win the big one in this league now days. Lets look at the past 9 years. We have Brady, Roethlisberger, Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, Drew Brees, and Aaron Rodgers all winning Super Bowls. Its not coincidence. Eli may not be elite, but hes definitely top 10 in my opinion. We will never win if we dont have that QB. Its just not going to happen. For you old schoolers that think bringing back the Hogs and a new Riggins with a solid defense will win us a title, your also wrong. The Ravens did it 11 years ago, yes. But the league was different, even then. People forget it was a decade ago, and you have to remember that because of these stupid new penalties, like illegal contact and all the protecting of the QB penalties, its just much easier to score threw the air now. You need the elite signal caller to make Super Bowl runs. Patriots, Steelers, Colts, Saints, Chargers, Giants, Cowboys, Packers, even the Eagles. All of them are in the run for a Superbowl at the beginning of the year, because of the QB play. Look at the Cardinals, Warner leaves, they are now terrible. The Colts are an absolute joke without Manning. I dont think Beck is the next Brady, but you never know, crazier things have happened. Are we going to make the Super Bowl? No probably not. Playoffs? Doubt it, but its possible. But are we better than last year? Absolutely. And thats 1 step in the right direction. I firmly believe we need to get our guy this offseason and we CANT wait another year if he doesnt fall to us. We have to trade up or do whatever we can to get him. It would be nice to look forward to Dallas games to actually beating them instead of fearing those weeks because we know were probably going to lose.

That brings me to my next point. Andrew Luck. Yes, yes, I know he wont be there when we draft. And so many of you dont want to trade too much to get him. But I would. I would do a huge trade in a heart beat, and the reason why, is just look at past drafts. If the Colts had to trade their next 3 draft classes(entire 1-7 picks) in order to get Peyton Manning in 1998, then they would have, knowing what they know now. Go back and look at the drafts of all the NFL teams and tell me 99% wouldnt give up 3 years of picks for one of the top 5 QB's or even 2 years of picks for the top 10 QB's. Everyone is so scared to trade a lot of picks due to depth, and think it will set us back years, and I understand where your coming from and totally respect the argument. But dont give me the old "Ok Vinny" post, Vinny traded our picks for 40 year old veterans who were well past their prime. Im talking about trading picks for what could possibly turn out to be the next Elway. Some of you might go off the handle if we trade the house for a guy like Luck, but you need to take a chance and not only that, but lets look at our past drafts. 2005 was the year Aaron Rodgers was drafted, and drafted late I might add. If someone were to ask me if I could trade every pick from 2005-2008 for Aaron Rodgers Id do it in a heart beat right now, wouldnt you? Obviously 4 years of draft classes are a little much, but Im just trying to make a point and give my opinion. Lets look at those drafts:

2005

1st Round: Carlos Rogers, CB

1st Round: Jason Campbell, QB

No 2nd or 3rd round picks.

4th Round: Manuel White, FB

5th Round: Rob Mccane, LB

6th Round: Jared Newberry, LB

7th Round: Nehemiah Broughton, FB

2006

No 1st round pick.

2nd Round: Rocky Mcintosh, LB

No 3 or 4 pick.

5th Round: Anthony Montgomery, DT

6th Round: Reed Doughty, S

6th Round: Kedric Golston, DT

7th Round: Kili Lefou, G

7th Round: Kevin Simon, LB

2007

1st Round: LaRon Landry, S

No 2 through 4 picks.

5th Round: Dallas Sartz, LB

6th Round: Jordan Palmer, QB

7th Round: Tyler Ecker, TE

2008

No 1st round picks.

2nd Round: Devin Thomas, WR

2nd Round: Fred Davis, TE

2nd Round: Malcolm Kelly, WR

3rd Round: Chad Rhinehart, OT

4th Round: Justin Tryon, CB

No 5 picks.

6th Round: Durant Brooks, P

6th Round: Kareem Moore, S

6th Round: Colt Brennan, QB

7th Round: Rob Jackson, DE

7th Round: Chris Horton, S

I would trade every single one for Rodgers, Id do it for Brees, Brady, Manning, hell Id even do it for Roethlisberger and Rivers. Now for those of you who are going to say we didnt have many 1st round picks because of Vinny and that also our draft classes werent that good because of him as well, I do see your point. But go look at some other NFL teams drafts those years and tell me that they wouldnt trade all those years for an elite QB. Even our recent picks in Orakpo and Kerrigan, even though they are great, Id trade em in a heartbeat for an elite QB. I really would. I also looked at the Colts draft classes from 98(Mannings draft) until 2000. And I guarantee you that every colt fan would trade every pick those years if they had to, as long as they would have got Manning that year in 1998. In short heres their draft from 98-2000.

Colts 1998: 1:Manning, 2:Jerome Pathon, 3:EG Green, 4:Steve Mckinnie, 5:Anthony Jordan, 7:Aaron Taylor, 7:Corey Gains

Colts 1999: 1:Edgerin James, 2:Mike Peterson, 3:Brandon Burlsworth, 4:Paul Micanda, 5:Brad Scioli, 7:Hunter Smith, 7: Corey Terry

Colts 2000: 1:Rob Morris, 2: Marcus Washington, 3: David Macklin, 4: Josh Williams, 5:Matt Johnson, 7:Rob Renes, 7:Rodregis Brooks.

Every single pick from our 4 years 2005-2008 and colts from 1998-2000 I just named I would trade them all for one of the elite QBs in a heartbeat. Now I know we are not for sure if Lucks going ot be the next Rodgers or Manning. I also know a lot of you would disagree about trading so much. Im not saying trade 3 years of drafts for a player, but Im not saying its a total bonehead move if you truly believe that the guys the next best QB. This organization has to take a chance on something. 20 years of us in the cellar has our hearts broken, and we need to get a big ray of hope. Shanahan is a great coach, and I have faith in him and whatever QB he picks, I will be happy for and root for. but dont be mad or surprised if he does trade the farm for Luck. I know we have holes, every team does. Even the Packers have holes right now, but you can hide them a lot better with a QB that averages 300 yds and 3 tds a game. Look what Rodgers did with an entire team of injuries last year. We cant just past this draft up like we did this year and chance that the guy we want falls to us. We cant have another mediocre year, we need to roll the dice and go all out guys. We cant just keep waiting it out and being 6-10 or 8-8 until the guys we have now get old and its too late to get our QB.

I guess what I wanted to say was, tot he people who think its just another year of false hope and sick of the rebuilding excuse, I understand but I dont agree this time. I feel we could be on the verge of something big and becoming a high class organization again. And my other point is, to the people who get scared or angry when others say about trading the house for Luck, go look at every teams draft in the NFL for the past 10 years, and tell me you wouldnt trade 2, 3 or even 4 years worth of of picks in 90% of those teams drafts for one of the top QB's in the league. We need to take a chance guys, we need to roll the dice. Whether we will or not remains to be seen, but unless Beck is the next Brady in disguise, then I pray we do give a bunch up and try to get Luck. I really do.

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Nothing you said is wrong, but it's all said with the benefit of hindsight. Rodgers? Yeah, for him take all the draft picks since that draft. Take them and go kick rocks, we have Rodgers.

If you posted this in three years after Luck had proven himself truly elite at the professional level, I would say it's spot on. JaMarcus Russel and Ryan Leaf alone justify apprehension, though. I agree we need to trade whatever we can afford to get a top QB next draft. Luck is just probably too expensive for what, at the end of the day, is still an unknown quantity. Every team in the league wants him and as hard as it is to believe, many of them are more desperate than the Skins.

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Really no offense but that is Draft suicide. You could do it and you'd lose approximately 7 to 10 years of youth on your team and a plethora of talent that you would never have a chance at landing at many other key positions. This team has little depth at many positions and though Shanny has injected a fair amount of youth into the bloodstream, we have a way to go. The O line still needs more depth and youth and what we have is being presently tested as of the last few weeks. Great teams are built around the draft no giving away picks for one player.

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welcome to ES. i agree with your post up until trading the farm for luck. do i think he's going to be legit. yeah, i think he will borderline dominate for a long time.

some counters to your argument however:

1.) We've never seen a team trade the farm for a qb, then succeed. sure eli costed a few picks, brees costed a little bit, but nothing in comparison to 3 full drafts. overall, the elite qb's were picked at their draft spot. even if luck is the next manning, we have no idea if he would have succeded with virtually no draft picks around him for 3 years. my guess is no.

2.) I think the gamble on your scenario is too big. youre placing all your hope on Luck. as good as Luck seems to be, he could be a bust. he could get hurt. 3 missing drafts has a 100% chance of hurting his developement. youre putting all your eggs in one basket and not distributing the risk. if something goes bad with Luck, youre team is set back a decade. imagine the bad shape vinny left this franchise in. now double that. that's what youd be looking at if he doesnt work out.

3.) The qb talent that will be available at our pick will be good. This is the best qb draft that ive ever seen. I think it will be better than the eli, roethlisburger, rivers class. If you can guarantee that Luck is the next Manning, why not consider that Tannehill, RG3, Barkley, or Jones can be the next Philip Rivers or Roethlisburger? Would you be happy with a qb at the level of Rivers or Roethlisburger? As teams adjust to a pass-heavy and QB dominated league, it still doesnt seem like the best QB in the league is the one always winning the superbowl. You dont have to have the best qb, you just have to have an above average to very good QB. I believe that we will find that in this draft and that we will also be able to use our other picks to build a better supporting cast for our rookie QB. The risk in this option is exponentially lower than the route you have listed, and imo, has the same chance of making our franchise successful, and that's the main reason why i dont suggest trading 3 rounds of draft picks for Luck

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Welcome OP.

It really is.

Isn't he a junior? What if he decided to stay in school another year?

Yes Luck has returned for his Redshirt Junior year, so he would have one more year of eligibility, but he would have graduated by then and I think that is what held him back from entering the draft before.

Great first post OP. You have nailed it on the head why we have been rebuilding for the past 20 years; however if you look at all of those elite QBs that you mentioned and how they were drafted by those particular teams I'm fairly certain that you will see that not one of them "sold the whole farm" for that guy. Great QBs do make a SB challenger, but nobody gets to the SB without a great supporting cast. It really would be draft suicide to lose 3 years of youth to get a non-guarantee.

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LOL, Grossman started the year and because he was not the fan favorite choice people picked apart each game blaming him for everything. Forget all the dropped balls, or INT's caused by the receiver. Grossman should have known better. Beck gets his shot and honestly didn't do any better. I find it funny how all the Beck fans came up with whatever excuses they could think of as to why Beck didn't do well .....ie; "he's rusty", "he hasn't started in several yrs", "he wasn't getting much help from his WR's."

What's even funnier is fans act like Beck is younger and will be our future. Yet they don't realize Beck (30) is only 1 yr. younger then Grossman (31).

So since apparently Grossman sucks to some fans, and Beck who provided similar stats to Grossman is not much better.......

I'm going to lead the charge for Jonathan Crompton the Redskins 24 y/o "young" QB 5th rounder who's waiting in the wings to be the starter when the Shanahan's get tired of Becks similar stats week in and week out.

Crompton, Crompton, Crompton.

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Pretty good first post, although I don't think I'd give up 3 "entire" drafts to move up to number one. I think you could trade a 2012 first and second and a 2013 first if say we are in the top 10. That would mean the team that accepts the trade would get a top 10 pick this year, a top 40 pick in the 2nd round and a 1st in 2013.

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I agree, good post. You have an elite qb then the rest of your team can be average (take a look at every other team). The Colts with Peyton this year would be .500 or better. Without (and if they continue to be w/o) then they'll remain bottom of the league.

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