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We have a lot of holes on this team. How many of them would be covered by improved QB play?


mzkp54

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Whenever I see a thread about trading up for a QB (any of the top QB's the past few years or this coming year) the main argument I see against it is that we have way too many holes to fill to mortgage those picks for a QB. However, the more I watch this team, I wonder how many of those holes would be somewhat filled with better QB play. As I look around the league, I see the teams that are improving and the teams that are getting worse.

Panthers: Last year, they won 2 games. They were Dead last in offensive yards per game, with 258, and points per game, with 12.2. There are many other stats to show just how bad they were, but I think most of us remember. Now, with their franchise QB, they are averaging 23.7 points a game (14th) and 417 yards a game (5th). Now I understand that Cam Newton has been lights out, but he is the main difference in their roster between last year and this year.

Colts: We all know how amazing the colts have been the past decade. Take away their QB, and some bonafide playmakers in Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark, and all the young receivers that Peyton made look like all-pro's are disappearing. Last year they averaged 27.2 points a game (4th). This year, less than 16 (29th). Last year they had 381 yards a game (4th). This year, 280 (30th). Again, the foundation of this team is fundamentally the same, just with a different QB.

These are 2 extreme examples, but there aren't that many teams that went from no franchise QB to franchise QB or vice versa. But the supporting cast has for the most part remained the same, and both appear or appeared to be without elite talent when the QB is sub par. Last year how many would think that Steve Smith still had what he is showing he has this year. And how many would think that Reggie Wayne would fall off so much without Peyton (a drop off would be assumed, but not this much).

I'm not necessarily proposing that we sell the farm for Luck. I know there have been many many threads about that, and I don't want this to be one. I just feel like we've been trying to fill all of our holes forever, and the one hole that continues to be gaping is behind center. We say that we need playmakers on offense, but around the league we are finding that QB's determine who the playmakers on their respective offenses will be (Brandon Lloyd last year, Stevie Johnson, Steve Smith). Other playmakers are shown to not be able to produce without their QB (Reggie Wayne, Brandon Marshall, Ochocinco, Sidney Rice). Now there are obviously the elite tier of WR that can produce regardless of who is throwing the ball. But this group is small enough that I don't think we can anticipate drafting a WR that will be the next Megatron or Andre or Fitzgerald.

I understand the desire to build a team, but I think that Shanahan has built a team that could contend with a quarterback. If you look at the bottom teams in the NFL, the common thread is that they have no QB (Dolphins, Seahawks, Colts, Broncos?) or have their QB, but no defense and/or injuries to their offensive weapons (Rams, Jaguars, Browns). The Vikings looked better than they have all season last night with a new QB. The Cardinals got Kolb, who I always thought they immensely overpaid for, and have looked like crap because he's not a franchise QB IMO.

I know this has been a lot about other teams in the league, but I think its very much related to us. If you plug a top QB into our system, I think we have enough of the other pieces in place that we can contend. I get the impression that there is a belief that to contend we need to have elite playmakers at every position, along with a backup who would be starting for another team. I can't think of any teams that fit that description. Every team has holes. It just seems that when other teams are bad, they get a QB and get better. Look at what Matt Ryan did for the Falcons, what Joe Flacco did for the Ravens, Cam Newton for the Panthers, Stafford for the Lions, Fitzpatrick for the Bills, Freeman for the Bucs. The list goes on and on. How many of those teams tried to build a perfect team and find the QB that fits that team and that team alone? I get that Shanahan hasn't loved the QB options that have been available for us. But we will not compete for a Super Bowl without an elite quarterback. So while trading back and getting more picks is great, and while finding a QB gem after the first round would be awesome, I think the rest of the league is showing us that a top tier QB is the only way to consistently win in this league. We simply cannot get it done without our quarterback of the future, and I think we cannot truly know how to shape this team for the future without that QB. I understand that there is a mold that Shanahan wants to fill. But at some point I think we need to take a quarterback that has a legitimate shot of success in this league and we need to let that quarterback determine the direction this franchise goes in.

I'm sorry for those of you who don't think this warranted its own thread. I tried to approach it from a different angle, but if you see this as cluttering the board, mods feel free to shut it down. But I'll redirect my rant back to my original question (and sorry, it got kind of long...). We have a lot of holes on our roster, and a seemingly significant lack of talent at skill positions. If you take a top tier QB and place him on our team, how many of those holes and deficiencies would we not be as worried about?

Hail

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I'm tired of people saying we need a QB to win it is obvious, this is like the fith we need a QB thread since Sunday. Everyone knows we need a QB, there was no one last year Shanny liked, so we built else where. This is not and never was our year, it's hard to deal with but it is the facts.

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I'm tired of people saying we need a QB to win it is obvious, this is like the fith we need a QB thread since Sunday. Everyone knows we need a QB, there was no one last year Shanny liked, so we built else where. This is not and never was our year, it's hard to deal with but it is the facts.

My rant did go in the we need a QB direction, but what I'm asking is how much of a difference do you think a QB would make. Jags got Gabbert and still look like garbage. How much will getting a QB in the first next year actually make us improve?

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My rant did go in the we need a QB direction, but what I'm asking is how much of a difference do you think a QB would make. Jags got Gabbert and still look like garbage. How much will getting a QB in the first next year actually make us improve?

This is the deepest draft for QB's maybe the league has ever seen, this is the year to get a QB. If we don't get one this year I will stop trusting shanny. Anyway I think a good QB could help us tremendously, even though we might not have a lot of play-makers right now we have solid players, and a good QB could help them make plays. Jags have nothing except MJD, so Gabbert can't really help them, while Carolina has Steve smith and their RB's which Cam makes better. We still have another 2 years of rebuilding to do, hang in there.

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This is the deepest draft for QB's maybe the league has ever seen, this is the year to get a QB. If we don't get one this year I will stop trusting shanny. Anyway I think a good QB could help us tremendously, even though we might not have a lot of play-makers right now we have solid players, and a good QB could help them make plays. Jags have nothing except MJD, so Gabbert can't really help them, while Carolina has Steve smith and their RB's which Cam makes better. We still have another 2 years of rebuilding to do, hang in there.

I guess I just get worried when I read the armchair GM's claiming we should fill another hole in the first and take a QB in the second. I don't think our supporting cast is nearly good enough to not take a potentially top tier QB. I don't follow college football at all, so all I really know is what I read here- and thats pretty much that its a very deep QB draft. I'm just ready to watch a Quarterback's career develop here, and not die here.

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This is the deepest draft for QB's maybe the league has ever seen, this is the year to get a QB.

Since I'm not a big college football fan, I'd like to know opinions on how much this is true. I hear people say this, but then people indicate that unless you're getting Luck, you're getting nothing. Do people say this draft will be deep just because Luck might be the best prospect to come out in some time? I would think that if the draft is so QB deep, we will have more than our fair share to choose from, even if we're in the middle of the draft order.

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My rant did go in the we need a QB direction, but what I'm asking is how much of a difference do you think a QB would make. Jags got Gabbert and still look like garbage. How much will getting a QB in the first next year actually make us improve?

Gabbert has played in just a couple games. Very few players come in and immediately change a team. Even studs like Manning battled through tough first seasons.

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I have no problem whatsoever with what Shanny did this offseason. If there's no QB out there you really want, don't draft one just to say you drafted a QB. Especially when the team is so hole-ridden already.

The team needs more playmakers. Many more. On both sides of the ball. QB included. We have no threat at WR that scares ANYONE. Nothing. Even with Moss.

Despite all the hype about our running game, it really has been up and down all year so far. Nothing tremendous. Hightower looked to be having his best game yesterday, however, but with him gone, I'm even less confident. The line has no depth.

Our d line is the main improvement on defense. Linebackers playing OK, but the secondary is just not getting it done, and the defense as a whole continues what it did in Blache's time here. Refuses to make the stop when it matters most.

WHen it was 16-13 yesterday, thought we might come back and win it. ANd then the defense lets the Panthers go right down the field. Game over.

It's just absolutely crazy how, no matter what players come here, no matter what coaches come here, no one seems to be able to change the overall mindset of this team.

As much as it pains me to say it, it's a loser's mindset. It's like they expect to lose, they expect to let a game slip away. They have no confidence. What little swagger they had at the beginning of the season is long gone.

I have no idea how they're going to get it back. I have no idea how they're going to pull out a win next week against another team that routinely puts up 30 points a game.

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Their is only 1 postion on the field that would be helped by a QB and that is wide receivers. A good QB can make crap Wide outs look like stars but a good QB will not help the oline or the running backs or the defense.

Oh really?

A QB being able to throw quickly with good decision making bails out the OL and gives them more confidence.

A QB throwing well opens up running lanes for the RB because it forces the defense to pull back.

A QB who can move the offense increases the time of possession on O and gives the defense a breather. If a QB can put up points, it allows the defense to play more aggressively.

So no, a great QB doesn't ONLY affect the WRs. The league is QB driven and a great QB makes EVERY OTHER ASPECT of the team better.

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Their is only 1 postion on the field that would be helped by a QB and that is wide receivers. A good QB can make crap Wide outs look like stars but a good QB will not help the oline or the running backs or the defense.

A better pass offense essentially automatically helps a run game because it decreases the number of people in the box. A QB that is mobile or has a quick release can also help an OL in terms of dealing with pressure.

And of course, it is a whole lot easier to play D if you have a lead, especially late in a game.

A good QB can essentially help every phase of the game.

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A better pass offense essentially automatically helps a run game because it decreases the number of people in the box. A QB that is mobile or has a quick release can also help an OL in terms of dealing with pressure.

And of course, it is a whole lot easier to play D if you have a lead, especially late in a game.

A good QB can essentially help every phase of the game.

Beat you. :silly:

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A good QB can not make a oline better our oline is a patchwork line at best even with trent williams in it maybe a QB can make a decent oline look good but a QB can not make a crap oline look good put Tom Brady behind our oline and watch him fail. IT starts with the Oline not the QB dont forget how we won our superbowls.

---------- Post added October-24th-2011 at 10:18 PM ----------

A better pass offense essentially automatically helps a run game because it decreases the number of people in the box. A QB that is mobile or has a quick release can also help an OL in terms of dealing with pressure.

And of course, it is a whole lot easier to play D if you have a lead, especially late in a game.

A good QB can essentially help every phase of the game.

Even with manning the colts had a really bad defense. the colts defense is playing just as bad as it did when it had Manning it just that now they cant score points. in my opinion

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Even with manning the colts had a really bad defense. the colts defense is playing just as bad as it did when it had Manning it just that now they cant score points. in my opinion

That may be true but the Saints would never have been able to put up 62 if Manning was back there because they simply wouldn't have the ball enough to do so. Offenses nowadays are driven through QBs, and a good offense helps out a bad defense.

Look at the Packers yesterday. Their D played poorly but Rodgers bailed them out and it allowed them to be aggressive against the rookie QB.

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Most QBs are exposed in the playoffs when defenses typically take over. So few of the idiots in the media have acknowledged that the Colts also lost the QB of their D to injury this year.

The game is still the same. Too many people think Madden football is real football. The Fantasy Football era has warped the view of the NFL.

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The game is still the same. Too many people think Madden football is real football. The Fantasy Football era has warped the view of the NFL.

Please elaborate.

Teams are passing more per game than ever before.

Not one, but SEVERAL QBs are on pace to break Marino's passing mark.

There are multiple wide receivers with over 700 yards in just 6 or 7 games.

There's an unprecedented amount of offense in today's league and its all driven by the QB. That's why our team falls behind.

Yes, defenses still take over somewhat in the playoffs, but the days of seeing a completely defense-driven team (00 Ravens) are long gone.

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Most QBs are exposed in the playoffs when defenses typically take over. So few of the idiots in the media have acknowledged that the Colts also lost the QB of their D to injury this year.

The game is still the same. Too many people think Madden football is real football. The Fantasy Football era has warped the view of the NFL.

Just to clarify- you don't think the league is becoming a much more QB and passing dominated league?

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