Gibbs Hog Heaven Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 GHH I believe he is talking about the youngins actually getting significant time/starting. Best example was yesterday was with Reed Doubt me starting instead of Dejon Gomes. We know exactly what we have with him. A decent in the box SS who cant cover me running down the field let alone a Starting WR in the NFL. The list of the guys that should be playing while taking their lumps is very small compared to what it should be. Next week I am hopeful for AA as the only 25+ WR to play but I know we will have the top of AA, Gaffney, and Stallworth playing most of the snaps. To me that is just F'in retarded. To that degree I wholeheartedly agree. But your not going to get a seasoned HC throwing all the youth in so early. He's got the hard balancing act of trying to 'win now' in today's 'what have you done for me lately?' NFL; whilst continuing to build for the long haul. I'd like to see more young guys see more of the field, as I said in the above post; but I appreciate the massive turnover in average age that's gone on here the past 22 months or so and all the youth that's been adding there in. They'll all start to see more of the field as this season continues to slip away. Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2cents Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 So why is Santana Moss our lead WR? Why is Cooley still on this team? Why is Gaffeny here? If we're going to loose lets do it with the youth. Donte Stallworth? This is like Joey Galloway and Roydell Williams 2.0Coach looks lost. We have no identity and look to be headed in no clear direction. Because you can't start rookies that didn't get a playbook until the start of preseason and who don't have any idea what they are doing. They are still learning what is going on. IMHOI don't think coach is "lost", people just have no clue about how bad this team really was/still is.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Why do fans always think the only way to get good is to play nothing but 23 year olds - regardless of whether they have talent or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
authentic Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 I would prefer to say that we're a team in transition. I don't think you can ever field a team full of 21-25 year olds. You need Veterans.... With that said, i would prefer guys like Hank, Paul, and Austin take their lumps over Gaffney dropping passes (heck!! who can't do that?)..... And as i think about it Stallworth, Moss, Gaffney, & Cooley are likely gone after this year anyways, so lets see what we have in these young guys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goingforburgundy Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 I would prefer to say that we're a team in transition. I don't think you can ever field a team full of 21-25 year olds. You need Veterans.... With that said, i would prefer guys like Hank, Paul, and Austin take their lumps over Gaffney dropping passes (heck!! who can't do that?)..... And as i think about it Stallworth, Moss, Gaffney, & Cooley are likely gone after this year anyways, so lets see what we have in these young guys? Exactly. Is there really a difference between dropping a pass and running a wrong route? Both balls usually end up on the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slateman Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 It was time last year. Play the young guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Because you can't start rookies that didn't get a playbook until the start of preseason and who don't have any idea what they are doing. They are still learning what is going on. IMHOI don't think coach is "lost", people just have no clue about how bad this team really was/still is.... The 49ers don't seem to have had any problems learning Harbaugh's playbook. Dalton doesn't seem to have had any problems learning the Bengal playbook. I think the point is we have EXACTLY a clue, and we are tired of seeing a coach act like there's a chance it can win and so we need the likes of Stallworth on the roster to open the season. You want some vets at WR fine. You have Moss, Gaffney, and Armstrong (who really isn't young and was here last year). If you think the team is really bad, then adding Stallworth makes no sense (or Gaffney). Fan think (get tricked into thinking) this team can win because the coach ACTS (not just talks) like it can, and he has now 2 years in a row and so when they are 3-1 people say 'Hey, maybe the coaches are right. Maybe it makes sense to have a roster spot for a guy like Stallworth'. And to me that's the real scary thing about the current regime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Why do fans always think the only way to get good is to play nothing but 23 year olds - regardless of whether they have talent or not? Yes. But I do think you can make some moves on a case-by-case basis. For example, we only have one WR on the roster who even has the physical tools to have a chance to be a #1 WR...Hankerson. I haven't been in the group of guys salivating over him and based on yesterday it appears he has work to do. But all over the league you see young, talented, raw WRs make plays just by being athletes. I don't think Dez Bryant runs great routes, for example. Why not work Hankerson in there for some packages so that you can see if he can make some plays for you? You don't have to start every young player if there are viable options in front of them...but now even more so because Moss is out for a while, why not shake things up at WR? I feel the same way at safety with Gomes vs. Doughty. If the young guys show that they absolutely can't handle it, feel free to trot Armstrong/Gaffney/Doughty back out there. There are opportunities to work youngsters into the lineup. And, we're doing a better job of it this year than I can remember in forever (Nield, Kerrigan, Paul, Jenkins (projected), Young, etc.), but when you're "older, less talented, yet reliable" WR is dropping half his targets and fumbling, what are you gaining by playing him over a younger player who is faster, stronger, and has more upside? What does it harm you to see Paul drop a deep pass or fumble if Gaffney is going to anyway? How is it bad to see Gomes late on a deep pass if Doughty might be late also? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BucketHTTR Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 You have nothing to lose. Why not? During the offseason I was insistent that we'd be somewhat decent because of all the young talent on this team like Banks and ATV and Orakpo, we need to go younger, not older. The vets are getting beat up now, showcase the young kids. #FreeHankerson Nothing to lose? Besides 10 more games lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenspandan Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 hankerson sucks. he would be on the field a lot more if he hadn't been so consistently incompetent. we're starting as many young guys as we can get away with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BucketHTTR Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Why do fans always think the only way to get good is to play nothing but 23 year olds - regardless of whether they have talent or not? Because they play Madden and they know whats best for this franchise man. We've already started a youth movement people.. Most of our team is constructed of 23-26 year olds.. Out of those players almost all of them have seen a great deal of playing time. If there is one thing that Shanahan has proven while he's here... He will play the best player in that position no matter the age. Slowly, Austin and Paul have seen more playing time as the year goes on. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw Austin or Paul as our #2 by the end of the year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Why do fans always think the only way to get good is to play nothing but 23 year olds - regardless of whether they have talent or not? Except nobody's saying that. Nobody is talking about benching Fletcher, Brown, or Moss. People are talking about at the edges. The older guys that aren't very good now or never were really any good and giving the younger guys a chance in those spots. And if they have 23 year olds that they don't think can cut in the NFL, then they should cut them and pull a guy off of somebody else's practice squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polo3 Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 With Cooley, Moss, Hightower, Fletcher, Atogwe, Lichenstieger (sp?) out, how can we avoid a youth movement? I would like to see Barnes take over at FS in place of Doughty and Buchanon back at nickle however if Atogwe remains out. I would like to see Barnes never step foot back on the field! Dude is horrible! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morpheusmeyers Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 hankerson sucks. he would be on the field a lot more if he hadn't been so consistently incompetent. we're starting as many young guys as we can get away with. I was arguing in the game thread yesterday that we should put Hankerson in the game since he was active and especially after Moss's injury. Then when he went in late in the game he ran a wrong route which resulted in Beck's only int of the game. (I'll eat crow) Is Hankerson just a slow learner? At this point he should know the playbook well enough to run a route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Is Hankerson just a slow learner? At this point he should know the playbook well enough to run a route. I don't even care...you can game plan for specific players and give them 8-10 routes that they run or call plays just for them. No one can convince me that Dez Bryant is a student of the game (yet) and he played in week one of his rookie year. Throw Hankerson screens or go-routes or jump balls. There are ways to get our most talented players involved. On a team without a lot of game-breaking players, we should be maximizing the touches of guys who can physically beat the guy in front of them. Guys like Hankerson, Austin, Helu, and Davis have the physical tools to beat their guy...not many other players do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenspandan Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 I don't even care...you can game plan for specific players and give them 8-10 routes that they run or call plays just for them. No one can convince me that Dez Bryant is a student of the game (yet) and he played in week one of his rookie year. Throw Hankerson screens or go-routes or jump balls. There are ways to get our most talented players involved. On a team without a lot of game-breaking players, we should be maximizing the touches of guys who can physically beat the guy in front of them. Guys like Hankerson, Austin, Helu, and Davis have the physical tools to beat their guy...not many other players do. you are on crack if you think hankerson has dez bryant's physical tools. there are some guys you simply have to find a way to get on the field regardless of their position on the learning curve ... hankerson is not one of those transcendent talents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 I was arguing in the game thread yesterday that we should put Hankerson in the game since he was active and especially after Moss's injury. Then when he went in late in the game he ran a wrong route which resulted in Beck's only int of the game. (I'll eat crow)Is Hankerson just a slow learner? At this point he should know the playbook well enough to run a route. How many times does this need to be said? It wasn't Hankerson's fault. Beck just admitted it in an interview. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 How many times does this need to be said? It wasn't Hankerson's fault. Beck just admitted it in an interview. someone just posted that 980 is claiming hightower does in fact have an ACL and is out for the year. did anyone else hear this? and wheres the thread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 you are on crack if you think hankerson has dez bryant's physical tools. there are some guys you simply have to find a way to get on the field regardless of their position on the learning curve ... hankerson is not one of those transcendent talents. I didn't say that. Hankerson is the closest thing the 2011 Redskins have to a prototypical #1 WR, especially with the injury to Moss. He's literally the only healthy WR who might develop into a true #1. Whether he has a 0.01% chance of doing so or a 10% of doing so is irrelevant. If he's your only shot, give him some opportunities and put the ball in his hands to see if he can make plays for you. Did you see Christian Ponder throw a jump ball to Michael Jenkins? Jenkins isn't a #1, but he's a big body who was able to outjump a very good CB (Woodson) to make a play. Hankerson seems to be the only WR on our roster who could conceivably do that. I'm not defending him...he needs to put time in to learn the system. But it's possible to put him in a position to make plays and just win one-on-one battles from time to time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbunny Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 At long as you hire "win-now" coaches, you will never get a "youth movement". In other words, Danny still pulls the wrong strings. Because there's some coaches in the NFL that want to lose? Or any league for that matters... I'm with GHH on here. I can understand the youth mentality here, but sometimes it gets disturbing. Considering our population here, what would it be if the coach starts the younger ones all over the field b/c the season is lost (btw we're just 3-3 not 0-7 like Indy). Youngers players would get crushed from sunday to sunday for being crappy, not graping the playbook, dropping passes, missing easy tackles, and so on... If you throw youngers on the field what can happen is killing them quickly (see Patrick Ramsey, and many others), because they can't bare the pressure, get beaten more than often, and feel like no matter what they do, they'll always be wrong and lose on any given sunday. Coaches are for that, but coaches can only taught what they know. Vets are here for that matter, transition from coaches to younger players, and they usually know when to say "**** off". Many are complaining with Stallworth and Gaffney being on the team. During the time we had to make the cuts, not so many really wanted to cut Gaffney, he deserved a spot. I was amongst those wanting to cut Stallworth, but many were saying that he deserved it as well. As GHH stated it, we already have been doing a youth movement heavily. Now I don't see any reason to start all the kids just to start the kids and see what they have. That would be terrible coaching, and in less than two weeks, 90% of the posts would be around saying that youngster X, Y, and/or Z (or even more) just suck. So I'm fine with what Shannahan is doing. Sure I was a bit lured by the team started 3-1, while I tought 8-8 would be within our possibilities. But thinking about it a second time, 8-8 means we're gonna lose games so, no need to get upset. Youngsters are seeing playing time with some slow increase, just not a massive complete overhaul in a blink so we don't completly look stupid and can evaluate everyone as they have too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus T Firefly Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 It is time now, like it was time in week 1, like it was time last year, and the year before and the year before.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuzzy Dunlop Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 The problem here is that the "youth movement" should have started week 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No_Pressure Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 It is always time to start the youth movement. There is never a reason to keep aging past their prime veterans out there in front of inexperienced but promising rookies. You don't learn anything about playing in the NFL by never playing in the NFL. Practice is where you learn a lot, true, but you can have guys like Taylor Jacobs who was compared to Jerry Rice on the practice field who do nothing in an actual game. I'm sure there are players who don't play as great in practice as they would in a real game situation. At certain positions anything would be better than what we have. Why should Jabbar Gaffney get thrown to at all? Is he even going to be here in two years? I don't care if he's more talented than a bunch of rookies at this point, he sure won't be in a year or two if we get those guys out there learning right now. Why can't we go into a game with Austin, Paul, and Hankerson at WR now that Moss is injured? Throw Armstrong into the mix but even he is what...29? I understand that we're begging to lose with inexperienced players out there but we need SOMEBODY to ****ing emerge for once other than a 1st round draft choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daaskins Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 most definitely. That means.... Paul over Gaffney..... Helu and Royster getting a lot of carries...Armstrong becoming a play maker.... Austin being in there everytime we have 3 wr (he is a player).... Nield getting reps....... letting jackson and riley get some reps to see where they... stand.... If otagwe misses time give Gomes some chances.... We cab still salvage this season and to much better then we were "projected" to do but get YOUNG fast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terryb101 Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Why does Mike feel like this team can win now? cause he is the coach and his son is the offensive cord. and he wants to keep himself and his son these big paychecks, if he said the team needs to be rebuilt danny might think about getting rid of him, as long as he can fool danny into thinking they are close to winning he will keep both their jobs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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