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The Argument: Starting John Beck Would Give Us a Good Shot at Winning the Division


Oldfan

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I think the running game might suffer a little more than the pass protection losing Lichten--- and TW. But, neither was a stud.

probably right, but i was thinking that our run game would be our strength on offense this year. a lot is going to be on beck's shoulders.

im a homer, so i dont want to think about it, but our oline could kill our offense the rest of the year. no Lsteiger, no TW. and we couldnt get anything going against a eagles dline that is decimated by injury. it could get bad, hopefully it doesnt.

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Shanny said yesterday Beck's been looking good in practice, maybe he isn't BSing?

Yeah, I didn't quite get that.

By his own admission yesterday, Beck hasn't worked at all with the first team this year. He's been solely on the scout team preparing our D. I don't know how good you can look in that limited role, even in practice.

Hail.

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I think the only factual reason to start Beck is that he's not Rex. Everything else is unknown.
That's an exaggeration. We know enough about Beck to say that he's a better fit for the offense, but if your point is that we don't have much of an idea about how well he will play, you're right, of course.
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Bottom line is we don't know. That in itself is a good reason to have Beck start the next 3 games to find out. We know what we got with Rex not with Beck and as most of us know you can't tell from preseason.

What we do know is:

He can avoid the rush better than Rex, thus with our weakened OL that's a plus now.

He can make some throws which Rex has not made thus giving the O coordinator a chance to open up the play book.

He can keep a D honest by not playing too much man to man because he can run for a first. That is big because I don't think we have receivers that get off the line well, in a bump and run situation.

And finally to anyone of us think he can throw INTs every game like Rex? I mean surely he can protect the ball a little better than that.

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I'll meet Oldfan half way here...

If we have any shot to win the division, it comes with Beck as the QB. I don't personally think we can compete with the other 3 teams right now, but I suppose things can change. Our defense is improved and our running game has shown promise at times.

What Beck does that Grossman does not do is require the defense to defend the entire field. He threw well and with zip on almost every throw. Sure, he was short very early and could maybe use a little more touch. But his throws to Gaffney, Stallworth, and Austin were pretty good and he showed an arm that we haven't seen from Grossman yet. He also can throw to the outside and run if he has to.

To me, what that means is that a defense has to guard long, laterally, and keep an eye on him. With Grossman, they could focus on inside the hash marks and 30 or so yards down field. If Rex beats you deep or to the outside, you tip your cap and assume it won't happen again. I think we'll see more running success and the ball spread around more. I'm encouraged about the offense under Beck. I wasn't nervous with every snap like I was with Grossman.

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Bottom line is we don't know. That in itself is a good reason to have Beck start the next 3 games to find out. We know what we got with Rex not with Beck and as most of us know you can't tell from preseason.

What we do know is:

He can avoid the rush better than Rex, thus with our weakened OL that's a plus now.

He can make some throws which Rex has not made thus giving the O coordinator a chance to open up the play book.

He can keep a D honest by not playing too much man to man because he can run for a first. That is big because I don't think we have receivers that get off the line well, in a bump and run situation.

And finally to anyone of us think he can throw INTs every game like Rex? I mean surely he can protect the ball a little better than that.

The legs open things up for others. For example, Beck's TD against the Eagles served notice to defensive coordinators that they should keep a man in the middle of the field when he is in the shotgun spread formation.

---------- Post added October-17th-2011 at 01:51 PM ----------

I'll meet Oldfan half way here...

If we have any shot to win the division, it comes with Beck as the QB. I don't personally think we can compete with the other 3 teams right now, but I suppose things can change. Our defense is improved and our running game has shown promise at times. ..

Which team (s) in our division would you fear on a neutral field?
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Non-skins fan. But, do people discount that the coaches know what they have in their two QBs? There has to be a reason they went with Rex over Beck, or else they suck as coaches, right? Either Beck doesn't know the system, struggles making pre-snap reads or other reasons, but I can't believe that a head coach with Mike Shanahan's experience would continue to insert Rex in the lineup if he had a better option that might fit his long-term need @ QB. My feeling is Beck has some major deficiencies that opposing defenses will be able to exploit just as much, or more than Rex's inability to avoid turnovers.

Larry Johnson and Joey Galloway say hi(although McNabb didn't help Galloway at all).

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Good shot? No. Better than Grossman? Yes. We know what we have in Rex (and it's not good) Beck is the unknown factor right now, but even in saying that I'm not confident about our QB situation at all. If he was so good he would've already had a starting job by now. I think that, sadly, once again the QB that we need is not on this team. But I'm hoping Beck proves me wrong, please prove me wrong.

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Which team (s) in our division would you fear on a neutral field?

Fear or believe we'd beat with something on the line (which will be the case with each of the next 3 matchups)? I don't "fear" any of them, but believe all 3 would and should be favored on a neutral field. Additionally, I trust those teams to win the other games they play before I trust us to. In non-division games so far, we've beaten the 1-win Cardinals by a single point at home and held on for dear life to beat the winless Rams by 7.

So, even if we won 2 of the 3 remaining division games, we seem to lose the "other" games more often than they do. For example, do you think we could go up to NE and lose by a mere 4 points to the Patriots? I don't...not for a second.

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Fear or believe we'd beat with something on the line (which will be the case with each of the next 3 matchups)? I don't "fear" any of them, but believe all 3 would and should be favored on a neutral field. Additionally, I trust those teams to win the other games they play before I trust us to. In non-division games so far, we've beaten the 1-win Cardinals by a single point at home and held on for dear life to beat the winless Rams by 7.

So, even if we won 2 of the 3 remaining division games, we seem to lose the "other" games more often than they do. For example, do you think we could go up to NE and lose by a mere 4 points to the Patriots? I don't...not for a second.

I think Beck will improve us enough that we should not be an underdog against any of those teams on a neutral field. And, the Patriots are not scary anymore.

So, I guess the difference between us is that I see Beck's scheme fit as more of an advantage than you do. And, I suspect most posters would agree with you.

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At winning the division?

No.

Because you have the 4th best team in the division. The Giants, Cowboys, and Eagles are all better teams. I'm not sure they are a lot better, but they are all better.

You are what your record is. The record says we are the 2nd best team in our division. You can't say the Cowboys and the Eagles are better than us. Yeah, they beat us, but that doesn't mean they are better than us as a whole. We beat the current 1st place team in our division. The 1-15 Cowboys beat the Super Bowl champion Redskins. It doesn't mean they were better than us then. We beat the Packers and the Bears last year, the two teams that were in the NFC Championship and one that won the SB. It doesn't mean we were a better team than they were. Right now we are the 2nd best team in the NFC East.

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It's been a long day and I'm dirt tired, but what am I missing in the 'neutral field against the division' thang?

The obvious, and probably totally missing the point answer is we'll probably never play them on a neutral field outside of an exhibition game.

Hail.

It was simply a hypothetical way of asking opinions on how well we match up with our division rivals without having to qualify the answer with home or away statements.

---------- Post added October-17th-2011 at 02:32 PM ----------

Beck will start the next game but he won't be leading us to any Division championships.
Why not? What part of my argument failed, in your opinion?
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I think Beck will improve us enough that we should not be an underdog against any of those teams on a neutral field. And, the Patriots are not scary anymore.

So, I guess the difference between us is that I see Beck's scheme fit as more of an advantage than you do. And, I suspect most posters would agree with you.

I'd like you to be right. He certainly looked impressive considering the circumstances he was put into (down 14 with no running game to help him, rusty with very few reps with starters, etc.).

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Oldfan - for once, I agree with 100% of everything you said in your OP. Dead on, IMO.

I think the stragglers don't realize that a good argument could have been made for pulling Rex before the Eagles game. Many in the media are like fans in general. The team's record of 3-1 was all they needed to hear to reject the idea of yanking him.

Agreed. We were @ the STL game & couldn't stop talking as we were leaving how we'd hope they would pull Rex during the bye week. His decision making has just been horrendous and it is progressively getting worse it seems. At the end of the day, I still have enough confidence in the Shanny's and trust their judgement over mine, but if the switch doesn't happen this week, at a minimum, I'll be scratching my head trying to understand it.

Hail.

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That's an exaggeration. We know enough about Beck to say that he's a better fit for the offense, but if your point is that we don't have much of an idea about how well he will play, you're right, of course.

I think its fair to say that Beck can't be much worse than Grossman was yesterday, but I have to believe, based on Beck's history, that he probably can give it a good shot. But, he might as well get a shot at starting a few games. I just forsee a lot of back and forth between Grossman and Beck. Not good for the team to not have a leader.

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I've read threw most of the post and threads from yesterday to today and for the life me I can't understand if we as fans can diagnose most of the problems with the starting quarterback and his back up being a better fit in this scheme than why hasn't our coaching staff. Everyone is saying how mobile John is and how he is more aware in the pocket, are not the coach's aware of this and say hey Rex isn't going to cut it we need to start Beck from the get go Maybe I missing something I sure the hell hope so because I'm at the point that I'm just frustrated.

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I've read threw most of the post and threads from yesterday to today and for the life me I can't understand if we as fans can diagnose most of the problems with the starting quarterback and his back up being a better fit in this scheme than why hasn't our coaching staff. Everyone is saying how mobile John is and how he is more aware in the pocket, are not the coach's aware of this and say hey Rex isn't going to cut it we need to start Beck from the get go Maybe I missing something I sure the hell hope so because I'm at the point that I'm just frustrated.
I think Rex was the Shanahans choice to start the season because he had a better grasp of the offense than Beck, but Rex's play has gotten steadily worse. My explanation for that is that Rex is an easy puzzle for defenses to solve. His best effort was against the Giants and things have gone steadily downhill since.
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Oldfan - for once, I agree with 100% of everything you said in your OP. Dead on, IMO.

Agreed. We were @ the STL game & couldn't stop talking as we were leaving how we'd hope they would pull Rex during the bye week. His decision making has just been horrendous and it is progressively getting worse it seems. At the end of the day, I still have enough confidence in the Shanny's and trust their judgement over mine, but if the switch doesn't happen this week, at a minimum, I'll be scratching my head trying to understand it.

Hail.

So far, I'm hanging onto the opinion that Mike Shanahan is a good judge of QB play. If Rex starts against Carolina, I'll throw in the towel on that one.
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