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Cloak and Dagger: Did anyone else witness Vick's concussion that wasn't?


The Batman

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Searched and checked the first two pages and didn't see any threads about this topic, so my apologies if one exists.

I am having trouble remembering (dohoho, a pun) the exact time in the game that this occurred, though I believe it was in the third quarter. Vick took a shot to the back of the head from Landry's helmet as he went to the ground (how it didn't get called I'm not really sure but I can't say I was upset about it after the roughing the passer call earlier in the game) and Vick went down on the turf, lying motionless for a few seconds. As he was stood up, London Fletcher and several other players had to hold him upright as he grinned ear to ear and generally looked like he didn't know where he was. You know the rest of the story from here.

Vince Young enters the game and immediately throws an INT. Had Grossman been playing better, the way Gano was kicking, points were virtually assured. The next time the Eagles take the field (within a couple of downs due to the INT, if memory serves), Vick is magically back on the field, and the sideline reporter is feeding the home audience a crock of **** about how Vick had "dirt in his face" and now he's back out there.

I am a student physical therapist with a background in neuroscience. From my admittedly limited understanding, there is no possible way the Eagles medical staff could have conducted a proper neurological screening on Vick to determine whether or not he had a concussion in the short amount of time they had before Vick was put back out on the field. It is simply a too-complex screening process to complete in just a few minutes. I cannot say whether or not Vick's continued presence in the game would have made a difference in the final outcome, but I can say that I believe in my semi-professional opinion that Vick CLEARLY had a concussion and appeared to lose consciousness for several seconds and was simply thrust back into the game out of necessity. It was simply smoke and mirrors, misdirection that allowed the Eagles to put their star QB back into the game, cheating the rules of the newly-omnipotent NFL.

If the Eagles are flaunting the NFL's new rules on concussions designed to promote player safety, how can they hold them accountable for this? Did anyone else see this happen and ask themselves this same question?

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Chris Carter said he is pretty sure it was a concussion, and 4 of us watching the game together all thought it was just the Eagles saying one thing (Dirt in eye), covering their butt, and it was a concussion. Vick didn't want to come out...probably fought the fact that it was a concussion, and the Eagles made up something instead of saying something like "Undisclosed".

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He got dirt under his visor and in his eyes, and the Redskins demanded they take him off the field because it was taking too long for him to get up.

Fletcher with the vet move got us Young for two plays while they washed Vick's eyes out,, we made a play, and then Rexed it up.

If the Eagles put him back in with a concussion they open themselves up to major rules violations, potential lawsuits, etc.

They would not put him back in with a concussion.

~Bang

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If the Eagles are flaunting the NFL's new rules on concussions designed to promote player safety, how can they hold them accountable for this? Did anyone else see this happen and ask themselves this same question?

The word is flouting. But yes, several of us in the chat were remarking on how much of a scumbag Andy Reid is. We all know a player is going to want to go back out there and maybe Vick wasn't severely concussed but he was definitely off and he looked different after that, slower and less aware. This is after Vick was put in the following week after a concussion when I was pretty sure league rules were stiffening on this kind of thing. It seems the Eagles get a pass and what's more, I don't even hear other teams just throwing guys back out there.

Remember last year when Stewart Bradley was so messed up he fell down like he was drunk? Yeah, he got put back INTO THAT GAME. The Eagles are evil, probably starting with the Walrus.

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When they should a replay I didn't see any contact with the head nor with the head to the ground so I couldn't figure out why things got woozy. I did wish it was a killshot hit because he has it coming but I suspect the dirt in the eye excuse is probably true because there is no evidence to suggest his head was hit on that play.

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flaunting - transitive verb: to treat contemptuously <flaunted the rules — Louis Untermeyer> - per Merriam-Webster

We're actually both correct, Nibbs :)

And Bang, until the concussion inspectors are employed independently by the NFL and not essentially specialized team doctors, we have no way of knowing whether or not they are making the correct judgments or getting a fatter Christmas bonus to clear players to come back into the game.

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When they should a replay I didn't see any contact with the head nor with the head to the ground so I couldn't figure out why things got woozy. I did wish it was a killshot hit because he has it coming but I suspect the dirt in the eye excuse is probably true because there is no evidence to suggest his head was hit on that play.

Landry hit him in the back and there was some neck movement and landry's helmet may have ridden up from the shoulder pads a bit. Nothing 'terrible' but as we know it's not always the 'kill shots' that seem to cause these concussions, especially with someone who already has had one this season.

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flaunting - transitive verb: to treat contemptuously <flaunted the rules — Louis Untermeyer> - per Merriam-Webster

We're actually both correct, Nibbs :)

Really? Jeez, there goes my entire belief system. Well, you learn something new everyday (though now I'm going to dig more in this lol) :)

Ah here's something:

Usage note

4. The use of flaunt to mean “to ignore or treat with disdain” ( He flaunts community standards with his behavior ) is strongly objected to by many usage guides, which insist that only flout can properly express this meaning. From its earliest appearance in English in the 16th century, flaunt has had the meanings “to display oneself conspicuously, defiantly, or boldly” in public and “to parade or display ostentatiously.” These senses approach those of flout, which dates from about the same period: “to treat with disdain, scorn, or contempt; scoff at; mock.” A sentence like Once secure in his new social position, he was able to flaunt his lower-class origins can thus be ambiguous in current English.

I don't blame your use of it, but I think it seems fairly clear that 'flaunt' is just one of those words.

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4. The use of flaunt to mean “to ignore or treat with disdain” ( He flaunts community standards with his behavior ) is strongly objected to by many usage guides, which insist that only flout can properly express this meaning. From its earliest appearance in English in the 16th century, flaunt has had the meanings “to display oneself conspicuously, defiantly, or boldly” in public and “to parade or display ostentatiously.” These senses approach those of flout, which dates from about the same period: “to treat with disdain, scorn, or contempt; scoff at; mock.” A sentence like Once secure in his new social position, he was able to flaunt his lower-class origins can thus be ambiguous in current English.

So Nibbs. Would you say that, according to this paragraph, my usage of flaunt flouts those usage guides?

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The word is flouting. But yes, several of us in the chat were remarking on how much of a scumbag Andy Reid is. We all know a player is going to want to go back out there and maybe Vick wasn't severely concussed but he was definitely off and he looked different after that, slower and less aware. This is after Vick was put in the following week after a concussion when I was pretty sure league rules were stiffening on this kind of thing. It seems the Eagles get a pass and what's more, I don't even hear other teams just throwing guys back out there.

Remember last year when Stewart Bradley was so messed up he fell down like he was drunk? Yeah, he got put back INTO THAT GAME. The Eagles are evil, probably starting with the Walrus.

+1. Andy Reid is pushing all his chips into the pot this year. And Goodell doesn't care what happens to Vick, just as long as ratings stay high for every game he plays.

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And Bang, until the concussion inspectors are employed independently by the NFL and not essentially specialized team doctors, we have no way of knowing whether or not they are making the correct judgments or getting a fatter Christmas bonus to clear players to come back into the game.

This is true... but

do you risk this with a 20 point lead against a QB who's throwing your defense the ball with such regularity?

I don't think so.

~Bang

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do you risk this with a 20 point lead against a QB who's throwing your defense the ball with such regularity?

Perhaps not. The problem with that is, per the play-by-play, they only had a 14 point lead at that point in the game, and they had to know that Grossman's turnovers wouldn't continue because eventually he would be benched. The decision had to be made to essentially bypass the proper neurological screen BEFORE Grossman's INT but AFTER Young's INT, when Washington had the ball in the red zone in a 2 score game. Definitely a different scenario in my opinion.

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Perhaps not. The problem with that is, per the play-by-play, they only had a 14 point lead at that point in the game, and they had to know that Grossman's turnovers wouldn't continue because eventually he would be benched. The decision had to be made to essentially bypass the proper neurological screen BEFORE Grossman's INT but AFTER Young's INT, when Washington had the ball in the red zone in a 2 score game. Definitely a different scenario in my opinion.

Well, it is possible. Not very probable in my mind.

You may be right, but if i had to bet I wouldn't lay my cash in that he was playing with another concussion.

Give Alfred my best, and pat Ace on the head for me.

~Bang

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Actually, Andy Reid came out and said that "Vick had the wind knocked out of him".........so, which is it, did he have "Dirt in his eyes" like Mike Vick said, or did he "have the wind knocked out of him" like Reid said.

No doubt about it, they are/were definitely trying to cover up what was probably a minor concussion....still, the Eagles could have some problems with this if the NFL chooses to look in to it, which they should.

The Eagles were all in for this game, and i don't doubt for a second that Reid looked the other way when it came time to put Vick back in, after he had just witnessed watching Vince Young at the position.

It definitely looked like Vick was out on the ground after the hit, and he definitely didn't jump up and run back to the huddle like he was ready to continue playing(like you would expect someone to do that just had a little dirt in his eyes).

I hate Chris Carter, but i think he's spot on with this one.

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Laron mostly caught vick in the upper shoulder pad then rode up to the helmet as Vicks head/neck were moving back. Vick was out briefly on the ground as a result and wasn't moving to get any dirt out of his face. The hit wasn't vicious but more of a momentum whiplash deal and who knows if he wasn't already feeling the Orakpo hit from earlier.

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So Nibbs. Would you say that, according to this paragraph, my usage of flaunt flouts those usage guides?

haha. I'm not really sure. It's one of those, it WAS wrong to say, at one point and still sounds off to some of us but is technically NOT wrong anymore. There are tons of words that way, that's how they evolve so many different shades of meaning. But it must still be somewhat novel, as it strikes me, who has only been alive since the 70s as being a 'misuse.' I wonder what a dictionary from 1950 said. *shrugs*

what I do know is that Vick at least got his bell rung a bit, whether 'officially' a concussion or just sub-concussive impact and Reid has shown he doesn't care about his player's health.

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Bang... why was Vick out for more than one play if it was just dirt in the face? Doesn't add up. And Fletcher wasn't the only one waving to the sideline, a couple Eagles' players did too... and I don't know how you could watch the way Vick was standing and not clearly see he was whoozy.

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