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It is past time for this team to be good


Burgold

Who Best Runs the 2-Minute Drill?  

188 members have voted

  1. 1. Who Best Runs the 2-Minute Drill?

    • Big Ben
      1
    • Brady
      88
    • Brees
      9
    • P. Manning (when healthy)
      31
    • Rodgers
      44
    • Other (explain below)
      15


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It's been twenty years. I don't want to hear about rebuilding, interceptions, or Rex. All of that is true, but it's past time that this team became good. How often have we been the team to receive the desperate team about to fall off the map only to give them a hand up? Call them the Giant's, or the Eagles, or any of ten other teams... Why do we always give a first year quarterback his first win?

It's ridiculous. Somehow, we have to take that desperate team and make them a loser. Somehow, we have to be a good team that wins the games that we're supposed to. Yesterday, was a game for the taking. When the D woke up in the second half, the Eagles could do almost NOTHING. We give them four easy interceptions and only lose by a touchdown? That was a team ready to lose!

Worse, we had two weeks to figure out how to exploit this team. Two weeks to see how everyone else beat them and almost everyone else had beat them.

Now, you can say there are conspiracies... that catch was insane, in fact both of those sky high volleyball bounces that wound up being receptions for the Eagle's shouldn't happen. Vick should have been called for a safety and instead got a free first down out of it.

But the truth is, we let a bad team beat us because we refuse to be a good team. And yes, we don't have every piece of the puzzle, but who does? Gaffney had more drops yesterday than he probably had all year. Grossman appeared to be on the Eagle's payroll. Why are we the only team who couldn't run on the Eagles. I'm sure they've stacked the box before?

Maybe it requires an exorcism or some hypnotherapy to chase away these demons that force us to choke every time we have a chance to be good, but it is intolerable and our players ought to be both ashamed and angry.

The Defense ought to be mad at their first half performance. The Offense should be infuriated at their continual ineptitude. They're better than that. They better be.

I don't require us to be perfect or even great, but it is past time to be good and to play at a consistant level. We should not have these games in these moments. We shouldn't be the guy who gets everyone else going.

When the occassion arises we shouldn't always shoot ourselves in the foot. That has to stop. If we get beat... fine. But it is past time that we stop beating ourselves and acting like fools.

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Totally and completely disagree. But your sentiments are certainly echoed by many here at ES. Bottom line, most fans are taking out 20 years of frustration on a relatively new regime that isn't even a season and a half into a major, major rebuild project.

For some reason our fanbase attached major significance to this game, which I never understood. Well, I understood it I guess, just didn't agree. Philly is a more talented and more experienced team than we are AND they pose some specific an significant match up problems for us. On top of that there was also a law of averages at work that Philly was bound to have a few bounces start going their way.

I never felt that this game was an sort of measuring stick for us or that if won we would some how be exorcising twenty years of demons...

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I don't mind losing, Kleese. It's beating ourselves that must stop. We came into the game one of the least penalized teams in the league. In the first quarter on the first 7 plays, we picked up four penalties and gave the Eagles 3 free first downs and took ourself out of field goal position. That's not being beaten by a talented team. That's falling apart. So, are the interceptions. They were not great plays by a defense. They were really bad plays by us. Simple give aways. The plays of a bad team.

We need to stop shooting ourselves in the foot. If we're beaten that's okay. We handed this game to them and then got on our knees and begged them to take it.

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Particularly well said Burg, you voice a lot of our frustrations without resorting to coarseness.

I still believe this is part of the process, part of the growing pains involved with rebuilding the franchise. We were not a team with "issues", we had rotted right down to the foundation and that takes longer to repair than this regime has had. Yesterday was more than merely disappointing, it was infuriating to see just what you note, a team begging to give us a game and we deny them.

A lot got done this offseason, and you can see improvement in several places but it takes the whole thing working together to get the job done, and there are still crucial pieces missing, missing pieces that negate the hard work of others.

We knew coming into this season that it wasn't going to be pretty at times (to put it mildly), whatever anyone feels today surprise shouldn't be on the list.

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I don't think we beat ourselves Burgold. Rex wasn't being dumb on his INT's, he just sucks. Sucky players make bad plays. To me beating yourself is doing things that you normally don't do... Like if we were fumbling at the goaline, missin easy field goals, etc...

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I don't think we beat ourselves Burgold. Rex wasn't being dumb on his INT's, he just sucks. Sucky players make bad plays. To me beating yourself is doing things that you normally don't do... Like if we were fumbling at the goaline, missin easy field goals, etc...

Penalties, drops, completely folding on run defense on that last drive (I don't really blame them for that), but Gaffney and Davis had terrible drops. If you noticed, it seemed like they pulled our receivers too and got Stallworth and Austin in. They were the ones with Beck that finally made some plays.

It was a little bit of everything. We got reffed in the beginning. The Eagles' made some truly miraculous catches. But we did play well below the standard we'd set for ourselves this season.... mostly Rex, but we failed in the run game too. We dropped how many catchable balls? How many free first downs to we gift to the Eagles?

We laid an egg. Maybe we would have lost regardless, but we played very poorly yesterday at many positions.

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Penalties, drops, completely folding on run defense on that last drive (I don't really blame them for that), but Gaffney and Davis had terrible drops. If you noticed, it seemed like they pulled our receivers too and got Stallworth and Austin in. They were the ones with Beck that finally made some plays.

It was a little bit of everything. We got reffed in the beginning. The Eagles' made some truly miraculous catches. But we did play well below the standard we'd set for ourselves this season.... mostly Rex, but we failed in the run game too. We dropped how many catchable balls? How many free first downs to we gift to the Eagles?

We laid an egg. Maybe we would have lost regardless, but we played very poorly yesterday at many positions.

It's just for me to judge overall because of Rex. Four picks is hard to overcome and that third one was just crushing. In the course of a game you are going to have a few penalties, drops, etc... Everything was just magnified because of Rex.

And don't discount the match up problems. If I were to design an offense to beat our D, it would be a finesse approach with speedy skill players, and a mobile QB... Eagles are a bingo for that. And don't look now, but Carolina is in a similar mode. I think we lose next week and then win two of three versus Buffalo, SF, and Miami.

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Agree with the OP,

How many chances do you get like this when your coming off a bye with two weeks to prepare and home field advantage?

14 rushing plays? Brian Mitchell was furious on the post game show on Comcast Sports.

Obviously, they wanted it more and prepared a blocking scheme to shut down our run that was effective enough to get the job done.

There has to be a plan "B" somewhere, and that's where the playcaller has to adjust. Putting that much pressure on R.G. just exposed his weaknesses even more.

It's a psychological factor knowing your up against a good team as we were coming into this game , or the "hang around and they'll shoot themselves in the foot" kind of team.

It's a setback for us and a shot in the arm for Philly at our expense.

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This team will get better with more time and better personnel. The Snyderrato era set us back years, it's going to take time to fix.

Have faith brother, things are going to turn around, maybe not this year, maybe not next year, but it will happen.

If it wasn't for Vinny we would be 1-4 right now. That Fred Davis draft pick is looking smarter and smarter by the second.

lol casm

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Burg, I like you, I do. But a few weeks ago weren't you telling everyone to eat crow about Haslett? And then the D poops the bed in the first half. I'll be the first to admit that Haslett made EXCELLENT second half adjustments and our defense came out firing on all cylinders then, but they were no where to be found in the first half. Our offense, by the way, did the same thing. Beck wasn't great, but he was good enough to move the team downfield by coming through when we needed a play. That was with a patchwork offensive line. Quarterback play is our biggest offensive hurdle, and I understand that the defense isn't always going to be outstanding. Grossman has been a hindrence.

This team is closer than a lot of people think, but we aren't there yet.

This team isn't crow eat worthy yet, the sooner people get that in their minds and realize its still a work in progress, the easier their pain will subside after a loss like this. Yes, we all want to be good right now, but reality doesn't work that way.

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Oh, I still think the D is worlds better than it was last year and that is crow worthy. With four picks holding the eagles to twenty is pretty amazing. Still, we slapsticked this game away. Stupid pick, stupid penalties, bs penalties, ridiculous drops, inability to run, etc.

As you said, the D esp. in the second half was great, but the between the refs and the O, the defense was really hamstrung... Regardless, I stand by both thoughts even if they seem contradictory.

This D led by Haslett are very much improved. This team needs to find a way to be a good team and play consistantly. When the heat rises they must not continually fold.

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Great post.

The Skins just looked bad yesterday... not just the horrid QB play. Stupid penalties, bad play calling... the list is endless. The D was terrible in the first half but to their credit blanked them in the 2nd. The offense is so utterly bad. Beck added a spark but very few teams can overcome 4 INTs.

Baby boy Shannahan is the worst play caller in the league.

The 3-1 start was just smoke and mirrors.

But the worst thing, to me is that I would rather watch this season with a rookie QB learning (and likely losing).. and that season wont come until, maybe, next year. I would rather have a young gun learning now than a good rookie LB learning.

Sick of this crap... losing to the Eagles, Cowboys and in a few weeks, the Giants.

It may be the different looking team, but the same old results.

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Great post.

The Skins just looked bad yesterday... not just the horrid QB play. Stupid penalties, bad play calling... the list is endless. The D was terrible in the first half but to their credit blanked them in the 2nd. The offense is so utterly bad. Beck added a spark but very few teams can overcome 4 INTs.

Baby boy Shannahan is the worst play caller in the league.

The 3-1 start was just smoke and mirrors.

But the worst thing, to me is that I would rather watch this season with a rookie QB learning (and likely losing).. and that season wont come until, maybe, next year. I would rather have a young gun learning now than a good rookie LB learning.

Sick of this crap... losing to the Eagles, Cowboys and in a few weeks, the Giants.

It may be the different looking team, but the same old results.

Now we're getting somewhere. I would rather watch us loose with the future QB and future studWR than shoe ins. The hell did we resign Moss for? We need to get younger and younger. Besides putting blind faith in Rex the only issue I have had with Shan is trading the picks to Philly for a QB he had done little to no research on. That decision set us back a year because we banked on Mcdirtball working out. Last year should have been year 1 of the rebuilding phase. Instead we're still trying to compete with sorry players at key positions.

I think 2012 will be the turning point for organization. We will grab our QB/WR combo that we have waiting for since 2005. Hopefully coach doesn't screw it up.

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I think 2012 will be the turning point for organization. We will grab our QB/WR combo that we have waiting for since 2005. Hopefully coach doesn't screw it up.

Now that would be tricky, considering London is nearing retirement and Rocky is a free agent, we don't really have any ILBs, either. We probably need another corner, and possibly even a true NT so Cofield can play a bit at end.

We also need a RT, RG, LG.

Our most glaring need is at QB, and we have a secondary need for receiver. We have a ton of holes. Most of which will not be filled next year.

If we get the QB half of that QB/WR combo you're talking about, I'll be excited.

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Now that would be tricky, considering London is nearing retirement and Rocky is a free agent, we don't really have any ILBs, either. We probably need another corner, and possibly even a true NT so Cofield can play a bit at end.

We also need a RT, RG, LG.

Our most glaring need is at QB, and we have a secondary need for receiver. We have a ton of holes. Most of which will not be filled next year.

If we get the QB half of that QB/WR combo you're talking about, I'll be excited.

Geez, didn't look at the big picture. After yesterday my focus has been solely on QB and WR.

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It's been twenty years.

What's been 20 years?

I don't think it works that way, if Detroit's been rebuilding since 1957 then we should be good in another 33 years, or so. lol.

It's not how long we've been bad that determines when the turn around will happen, it's more than that.

We've been rebuilding under Bruce Allen and Mike Shanahan for how long?

Off-season #1 - No CBA restricted player movement. We were not able to sign young free agents, as their teams were able to lock them up until their 7th year. This was a very unique setback.

Off-season #2 - Lockout. No OTA's and no free agents until TC started. No chance to teach the new (2nd year) system to the players. This includes the 12 draft picks and the multiple free agents. This was a very unique setback.

In spite of that we are still a better team than we have been in a while, even if the wins don't come this year.

Someone please help me understand how 1993 has anything to do with this, other than just helping us feel sorry for ourselves.

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It's been twenty years. I don't want to hear about rebuilding, interceptions, or Rex. All of that is true, but it's past time that this team became good. How often have we been the team to receive the desperate team about to fall off the map only to give them a hand up? Call them the Giant's, or the Eagles, or any of ten other teams... Why do we always give a first year quarterback his first win?

It's ridiculous. Somehow, we have to take that desperate team and make them a loser. Somehow, we have to be a good team that wins the games that we're supposed to. Yesterday, was a game for the taking. When the D woke up in the second half, the Eagles could do almost NOTHING. We give them four easy interceptions and only lose by a touchdown? That was a team ready to lose!

Worse, we had two weeks to figure out how to exploit this team. Two weeks to see how everyone else beat them and almost everyone else had beat them.

Now, you can say there are conspiracies... that catch was insane, in fact both of those sky high volleyball bounces that wound up being receptions for the Eagle's shouldn't happen. Vick should have been called for a safety and instead got a free first down out of it.

But the truth is, we let a bad team beat us because we refuse to be a good team. And yes, we don't have every piece of the puzzle, but who does? Gaffney had more drops yesterday than he probably had all year. Grossman appeared to be on the Eagle's payroll. Why are we the only team who couldn't run on the Eagles. I'm sure they've stacked the box before?

Maybe it requires an exorcism or some hypnotherapy to chase away these demons that force us to choke every time we have a chance to be good, but it is intolerable and our players ought to be both ashamed and angry.

The Defense ought to be mad at their first half performance. The Offense should be infuriated at their continual ineptitude. They're better than that. They better be.

I don't require us to be perfect or even great, but it is past time to be good and to play at a consistant level. We should not have these games in these moments. We shouldn't be the guy who gets everyone else going.

When the occassion arises we shouldn't always shoot ourselves in the foot. That has to stop. If we get beat... fine. But it is past time that we stop beating ourselves and acting like fools.

Good post.

The fact is that we have less playmakers than the Eagles do. If you took the Skins defense and combined it with the Eagles offense you'd have a really good team. Personally, I'm excited to see what Beck can do. He has been chomping at the bit to play and now he's gonna get his chance. Let's call it the way we saw it: Rex Grossman is immobile and forces throws. The Skins have no check down option out of the backfield for the defense to worry about. The Skins have average to below average WR's that don't scare anyone. Chris Cooley is aging and just about done.

All that being said, we're 3-2 and very much in the thick of things in the NFC East. We are competitive and heading in the right direction. Let's hope that Beck can make more plays and less mistakes that Grossman and I think you'll see a better offense.One thing is for sure, he'll buy more time to throw and will run when he gets the chance. That's already an upgrade over Rex.

I'd also like to see more of Terrence Austin and perhaps more of Helu as a potential receiver out of the backfield. We need a dump off option for the defense to worry about.

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Good post.

The fact is that we have less playmakers than the Eagles do. If you took the Skins defense and combined it with the Eagles offense you'd have a really good team. Personally, I'm excited to see what Beck can do. He has been chomping at the bit to play and now he's gonna get his chance. Let's call it the way we saw it: Rex Grossman is immobile and forces throws. The Skins have no check down option out of the backfield for the defense to worry about. The Skins have average to below average WR's that don't scare anyone. Chris Cooley is aging and just about done.

All that being said, we're 3-2 and very much in the thick of things in the NFC East. We are competitive and heading in the right direction. Let's hope that Beck can make more plays and less mistakes that Grossman and I think you'll see a better offense.One thing is for sure, he'll buy more time to throw and will run when he gets the chance. That's already an upgrade over Rex.

I'd also like to see more of Terrence Austin and perhaps more of Helu as a potential receiver out of the backfield. We need a dump off option for the defense to worry about.

Oh yeah, I know I'm not the only one who noticed this but Roy Helu is slow as hell. Its like he runs and makes moves in slow motion.

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Now that would be tricky, considering London is nearing retirement and Rocky is a free agent, we don't really have any ILBs, either. We probably need another corner, and possibly even a true NT so Cofield can play a bit at end.

We also need a RT, RG, LG.

Our most glaring need is at QB, and we have a secondary need for receiver. We have a ton of holes. Most of which will not be filled next year.

If we get the QB half of that QB/WR combo you're talking about, I'll be excited.

This is what I want the draft to look like.

1st Michael Floyd- #1 WR

2nd Ryan Tannehill- Franchise QB

3rd Nate Potter- RT

4th David Molk- G/C

4th Omar Bolden- CB

5th Dontari Poe- NT

7th BPA

Then in 2013 get ILB and CB and maybe FS.

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Geez, didn't look at the big picture. After yesterday my focus has been solely on QB and WR.

I think knowing the big picture has kept me a bit calmer when it comes to this team. I was actually okay after the game, just because Grossman finally got benched.

I know we have a long way to go. We have a ton of holes. If you really want to dive into it here's what we have in my opinion:

QB: John Beck, Rex Grossman

Our quarterback situation is scary. John Beck is a capable back up, I feel, but not starter quality. Rex Grossman is on a one year deal, and not the answer. We can only keep one, and Beck is under contract. So I think Beck will remain and Grossman needs to go..

QB Status: IMMEDIATE NEED 1 starter, 1 young guy (could be the same guy, could be two in the case of finding a way to sign Matt Flynn and draft a rook)

RB: Ryan Torain, Tim Hightower, Roy Helu, Evan Royster

Our runningback situation was hurt a bit yesterday without THT in the lineup. He is our most complete back. Torain can't catch, that was evident yesterday. Torain may be our best runner, Helu may be the most explosive and THT is the most complete. I like our backs.

Status: OKAY

Wide Receiver: Not listing all 34 of them

Santana Moss is a capable receiver, as is Jabar Gaffney. I think people overrate Anthony Armstrong around here. He's got speed and the ability to stretch a defense, but his hands aren't great. Those three are probably are top three receivers right now. Our young guys aren't seeing much time. I think Terrance Austin has a ton of promise. Leonard Hankerson isn't even sniffing the field. Niles Paul is a special teams asset. Aldrick Robinson is a totally unknown commodity. There are major holes here, despite having some talent. The way I see it is we have a bunch of slot receivers, and a couple halfway decent X receivers. Santana would be a tremendous slot, and Austin is a good handcuff for Santana. Gaffney is a decent X. Paul and Hankerson could pan out, but who knows. We don't really have a starting Z. Moss can be stopped as a split out receiver as they can roll coverage. In the slot, he's much tougher to defend.

Status: We have a need, but its not the highest need

Tight End: Chris Cooley, Fred Davis, Logan Paulsen

Our TE corps is pretty decent. Although Cooley is having a hard time staying healthy. Still, I don't think you give up on him with as many holes as we currently have.

Status: OKAY

Offensive Line: We have no depth.

Chris Chester is a halfway decent back up guard. Lichtensteiger could be a decent starter if we need him to be. He could be upgraded, but LG is okay. Montgomery is okay at center. But with Lichtensteiger out, our depth is scary. I'm assuming Olsen is going to be promoted, but Erik Cook is not a great player, and Montgomery is not a great guard. Monty is a serviceable center and MUCH better than what we've had. Jamaal Brown is hit or miss at RT, but he's made a few bad mistakes so far this year. Trent Williams is not consistent, but he's been the bright spot on our line. With his injury (hopefully its not serious) it puts a decent backup in Sean Locklear in the mix. Our current OL, with the injuries has four back up quality players on it, and perhaps a fifth if you look at Jamaal Brown as a backup...

Status: NEED!

Defensive Line:

I like our DL, Cofield is a good addition, as was Stephen Bowen. Carriker has played well. Jarvis Jenkins will certainly help out. Chris Nield is decent as well. We need a true starting nose so we can kick Cofield out to play end, and I REALLY like the DL. We could use some depth, but it's not our most pressing need.

Can use an upgrade

Corner:

DeAngelo Hall is our best playmaking corner. He's also often a liability in coverage. Josh Wilson has played decent this year. Kevin Barnes is playing a little bit like DeAngelo, except I think he's been slightly better in coverage, and slightly worse in the playmaking department. After them, though, I don't like our corner back spot. We need corners. It's a need. Depth is an issue.

Status:Need!

Safety:

We're fine.

Status: Fine.

Outside Linebacker:

Could use a little bit of depth outside of Rak/Kerrigan and Jackson who is serviceable.

Status: Okay, wouldn't hurt to find another depth guy

Inside Linebacker;

Rocky has stepped his game up and London has been solid. Perry Riley is unknown, really, and Keyaron Fox is a special teams player who can fill in. Rocky is on a one year contract after not getting a ton of offers this past offseason. Problem is, with his improved play, he may attract more suitors and London is nearing retirement. Perry Riley and Keyaron Fox as starting linebackers scares me. ILB is a position of need, and it's fairly obvious. The difference between ILB and QB is that we at the very least have two current starters. But I think its a need.

Status: Need

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