steveo21

The Walking Dead Season 7 --Discuss material from the Walking Dead and Talking Dead TV shows ONLY.

Recommended Posts

There's no way Shane wouldn't have killed Sophia. He didn't do it because the writers needed to demonstrate that Rick is the leader and realizes that the walkers need to be taken down. He was wrong to put the lives of all the others at risk for the little girl that couldn't have survived in times like these. He took responsibility and ended it.

Never for a moment did I think Rick was the only one "capable" of shooting her.

You forget that Shane wants to move the group. He was complaining about the search for Sophia not because of the risk to those looking for her but because it was keeping them from moving to the army base. He still hasn't come to terms with the fact that they aren't in a survival situation. The world has changed and that what they are experiencing isn't a temporary "do what is needed" situation. It's what life is going to be like for the foreseeable future.

Rick is trying to negotiate staying on the farm because he's probably noticed they haven't been losing members of their group since there arrival. When the group has moved is when they've lost the most members. In a world with no laws finding people may not be a good thing and walking into a situation blind is dangerous.

Shane wants to do SOMETHING because he's cracking under the pressure and guilt. Plus let's be honest, he's not trying to look the family members of his murder victim in the eye everyday.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In fairness Shane killed Otis to ensure the medicine Carl needed got back to him. If Otis isn't sacrificed it's pretty much a lock that both of them die and Carl dies as well. Shane should leave the group. He can't play Rick anymore and staying in that group is going to get him killed. The old, young and weak in a situation like this are sadly dead weight. Unless it's your family, in a zombie apocalypse you should be looking to group up with 3 people like Daryl and go from there.

Edited by Zazzaro703

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
There's no way Shane wouldn't have killed Sophia. He didn't do it because the writers needed to demonstrate that Rick is the leader and realizes that the walkers need to be taken down. He was wrong to put the lives of all the others at risk for the little girl that couldn't have survived in times like these. He took responsibility and ended it.

Never for a moment did I think Rick was the only one "capable" of shooting her.

Rick understood they had to be taken down, but that was the lesser issue of securing a place to stay for his pregnant wife. The issue of should or shouldn't walkers be kept alive was never up for debate among the group...it was how to handle Herschel and Shane went about it the wrong way. Realistically they could simply kill Herschel too and take his place if he doesn't want to let them stay, but that's not the type of people they are.

Shane's actions aren't going to lead to Herschel fully accepting the reality of the situation and fixing things, it will have the complete opposite. You have to step back and realize the majority of the group aren't a bunch of hardcore survivalist with a kill or be killed mentality. They're normal everyday people who want some manner of stability to their lives, the type of person Shane is totally contradicts that. The way he wants to survive isn't what they want.

He's also an extremely morally flawed and self-centered person, he hides behind the notion of just wanting to take care of Lori and Carl because he always envied Rick pre-apocalypse and once he got a taste of his life he didn't want to give it up. The scene with Lori and Shane in the rec-room of the CDC showed this also.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You forget that Shane wants to move the group. He was complaining about the search for Sophia not because of the risk to those looking for her but because it was keeping them from moving to the army base. He still hasn't come to terms with the fact that they aren't in a survival situation. The world has changed and that what they are experiencing isn't a temporary "do what is needed" situation. It's what life is going to be like for the foreseeable future.

Rick is trying to negotiate staying on the farm because he's probably noticed they haven't been losing members of their group since there arrival. When the group has moved is when they've lost the most members. In a world with no laws finding people may not be a good thing and walking into a situation blind is dangerous.

Shane wants to do SOMETHING because he's cracking under the pressure and guilt. Plus let's be honest, he's not trying to look the family members of his murder victim in the eye everyday.

I'm not defending Shane at all. I'm just saying the writers are clearly contrasting both of them and in this instance, Shane was right. I'm just arguing the fact that Rick was the only one that could have manned up enough to shoot Sophia. That's all. I think having Rick shoot her was a character development device moreso than the writers trying to portray that Rick is the only one capable of leading.

I saw Rick's shooting of Sophia more of a turning point for Rick's character than a statement on who Shane and the rest of the group are.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I saw Rick's shooting of Sophia more of a turning point for Rick's character than a statement on who Shane and the rest of the group are.

Interesting, I saw it as an affirmation of Ricks character as the leader. I've never seen Shane as the leader or even possible leader.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Rick understood they had to be taken down, but that was the lesser issue of securing a place to stay for his pregnant wife. The issue of should or shouldn't walkers be kept alive was never up for debate among the group...it was how to handle Herschel and Shane went about it the wrong way. Realistically they could simply kill Herschel too and take his place if he doesn't want to let them stay, but that's not the type of people they are.

Shane's actions aren't going to lead to Herschel fully accepting the reality of the situation and fixing things, it will have the complete opposite. You have to step back and realize the majority of the group aren't a bunch of hardcore survivalist with a kill or be killed mentality. They're normal everyday people who want some manner of stability to their lives, the type of person Shane is totally contradicts that. The way he wants to survive isn't what they want.

He's also an extremely morally flawed and self-centered person, he hides behind the notion of just wanting to take care of Lori and Carl because he always envied Rick pre-apocalypse and once he got a taste of his life he didn't want to give it up. The scene with Lori and Shane in the rec-room of the CDC showed this also.

Again, I'm not defending Shane in any way other than I think his character was more than capable of putting down Sophia.

He didn't do it because he's been the one saying that she's dead for the entire season. It was Rick that was adamant they not give up hope and continue the search. It was Rick that was sending people out looking for Sophia, almost getting Daryl killed. Rick was the one that wanted to reason with Hershal regarding the walkers, Rick was the one that helped Hershel gather up walkers. Those turned out to be mistakes.

He shot Sophia, in my opinion, to show that he admits his mistakes and also learns from them.

Shane's actions were erratic and out of control, but at the end of the day made their ability to survive increase ten fold. They ALL now know that these walkers must be killed. They all are safer because there's no longer a barn full of walkers. They are all now safer knowing that the search for Sophia can end. Without Shane's breakdown, none of that would have been accomplished.

---------- Post added November-30th-2011 at 03:45 PM ----------

Interesting, I saw it as an affirmation of Ricks character as the leader. I've never seen Shane as the leader or even possible leader.

I never said Shane was the leader. :whoknows:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Shane's actions were erratic and out of control, but at the end of the day made their ability to survive increase ten fold.:

Are they going to be safer when Herschel snaps and kicks them all out? =p

---------- Post added November-30th-2011 at 03:49 PM ----------

By the way, at the rate this is going we're all going to need Team Rick and Team Shane t-shirts. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Are they going to be safer when Herschel snaps and kicks them all out? =p

---------- Post added November-30th-2011 at 03:49 PM ----------

By the way, at the rate this is going we're all going to need Team Rick and Team Shane t-shirts. :)

I am team Glenn!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
]

I never said Shane was the leader. :whoknows:

If Shane is right about everything and is responsible for increasing their chance of survival 10 fold, wouldn't it stand to reason he would be vying for a position of leadership?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Are they going to be safer when Herschel snaps and kicks them all out? =p

---------- Post added November-30th-2011 at 03:49 PM ----------

By the way, at the rate this is going we're all going to need Team Rick and Team Shane t-shirts. :)

Does he? Can he? Someone needs to wake Mr. Hershel up.

---------- Post added November-30th-2011 at 03:56 PM ----------

If Shane is right about everything and is responsible for increasing their chance of survival 10 fold, wouldn't it stand to reason he would be vying for a position of leadership?

I don't see how that has anything to do with anything. Rick screwed up by not manning up about the barn or the search for Sophia. Shane snapped and was proven right. I took Rick killing Sophia as something he had to do because he put them all in that situation in the first place. He owed up to being wrong and took action. I disagree with the notion that he was the only one that could have shot Sophia. All I'm saying is the writers had Rick do it to show character growth on Ricks part. He's the star of the show afterall. It's basic writing techniques.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Does he? Can he? Someone needs to wake Mr. Hershel up.

Here is the thing....I can't really go down this road because I know what happens to a degree. I'll just say that Shane's demonstration doesn't fix the situation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Here is the thing....I can't really go down this road because I know what happens to a degree. I'll just say that Shane's demonstration doesn't fix the situation.

I'm not following spoilers for this show and will not. The comics aren't very useful, and I haven't read them either, because this show is another universe from the comics. I'm not moving on from the farm if I'm there out of "respect" for the old man that owns it. I know that sounds harsh, but tell me you disagree if you lived in that world.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm not following spoilers for this show and will not. The comics aren't very useful, and I haven't read them either, because this show is another universe from the comics. I'm not moving on from the farm if I'm there out of "respect" for the old man that owns it. I know that sounds harsh, but tell me you disagree if you lived in that world.

I've read the first five, and yeah there are some differences. I'm not reading any show spoilers (does this stuff even leak out?) so things may change greatly from the comics....that's why I said I knew "to a degree." Also it's pretty obvious it doesn't work out because it would be a bit boring if it did fix things and you simply had a show of people living on a farm in the middle of nowhere. :)

About the issue of the farm, if it was just me....and I knew I could survive then I'm not killing innocent people for my own self-interest. If, however, I had a wife/kid and other people depending on me and it was either get rid of Herschel to secure a spot for them or let him push me off....Herschel loses. The thing is though it's not just Herschel there, and people in the group (Glenn) are getting attached to them (Maggie). I don't think the majority of the group would support the idea of going in that direction.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Absolutely, offing Hershel opens a can of worms no doubt.

And you are right. Staying there on the farm would get boring rather quickly. However, I do know that I am heading to a farm if it ever hit the fan. I, of course, won't have my adventures written for fictional purposes. :ols:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The main point though, is not who could have killed Sophia, it's who did kill Sophia.

All I'm arguing is the fact that Rick did it because it was his place to moreso than the others. It was a chance to develop Rick's character to a more logical and darker place, a place he needs to go to survive in this world.

Some in here were saying only Rick had the sack to do it. That's what I disagreed with.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
All I'm arguing is the fact that Rick did it because it was his place to moreso than the others. It was a chance to develop Rick's character to a more logical and darker place, a place he needs to go to survive in this world.

Some in here were saying only Rick had the sack to do it. That's what I disagreed with.

Yeah if you snapped your fingers and Rick vanished and the same people are standing there I think both Shane and Daryl are capable of putting her down. It's always about who steps up first though...

The question for me was never if Rick had it in him to clear out the barn, it was how to handle Herschel.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
All I'm arguing is the fact that Rick did it because it was his place to moreso than the others. It was a chance to develop Rick's character to a more logical and darker place, a place he needs to go to survive in this world.

Some in here were saying only Rick had the sack to do it. That's what I disagreed with.

Considering he's the only one that moved a finger to react, that maybe true.

To assume that Shane, etc would have done something is conjecture and is not supported by anything we saw.

I have no doubt Shane could have done it, though I doubt it would have been before his own life was imminently in danger. However, he, like the rest of the group, passed the buck.

An ultimately that fell on the only person who actually did something, and someone who is constantly deferred to when tough decisions need to be made.

Shane certainly could have pulled the trigger, just as he could have asserted himself to make the tough decisions throughout the show. But he did not, and up until now, has not. Thus the only one we absolutely know has the sack to make tough choices is Rick. Again, could Shane have that ability, sure. But until it is demonstrated, it is far from a certainty.

(I don't consider throwing a tantrum and ripping the barn open a tough decision. I consider it an impetuous one, one that despite positive (unintended) consequences - concluding the search for Sophia, could have potentially disastrous ones. Being on the road is FAR more dangerous than being on the farm, and Shane very well could have punched their ticket out of the relative safety thus far this season.)

Edited by The Tris

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Shane definitely would have pulled the trigger if she got any closer.

I think the entire family knew she was in the barn, but since they were all under the impression they were just sick and not undead, they hadn't said anything.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Shane definitely would have pulled the trigger if she got any closer.

I think the entire family knew she was in the barn, but since they were all under the impression they were just sick and not undead, they hadn't said anything.

Shane would have pulled the trigger when she got close enough to attack, when the decision to pull the trigger ceased being a choice and became a fight or flight instinct. Kinda like pulling your hand from a hot flame.

That's not the same as stepping forward to act immediately. Big difference.

Also, I don't think anyone but Otis knew she was in the barn. Herschel wanted them gone. Why would he withhold what he assumed to be their major reason for sticking around? It does not make sense.

Edited by The Tris

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Shane would have pulled the trigger when she got close enough to attack, when the decision to pull the trigger ceased being a choice and became a fight or flight instinct. Kinda like pulling your hand from a hot flame.

That's not the same as stepping forward to act immediately. Big difference.

I agree. Having Rick do it, especially when he was being doubted, was the best choice for character development.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Shane would have pulled the trigger when she got close enough to attack, when the decision to pull the trigger ceased being a choice and became a fight or flight instinct. Kinda like pulling your hand from a hot flame.

That's not the same as stepping forward to act immediately. Big difference.

Also, I don't think anyone but Otis knew she was in the barn. Herschel wanted them gone. Why would he withhold what he assumed to be their major reason for sticking around? It does not make sense.

Eh... I still stand by the idea that it was a writing ploy to develop Rick closer to where Shane already is.

Edited by GibbsFactor

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I finally got around to watching episode 7 and the ending blew my mind.

I was totally shocked that Sophia was in the barn and a zombie.

I guess I always expected they would find her alive somewhere because she and Carl are so close throughout the comics.

I have no idea where this thing is going now.

I didn't think Shane would last this long either, but he is fun to watch.

As much as I hate the guy, he's definitely entertaining.

I really don't see how he can last forever though.

With his erratic and dangerous behavior, he's going to get himself killed sooner or later.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Eh... I still stand by the idea that it was a writing ploy to develop Rick closer to where Shane already is.

Having Rick kill Sophia was not a means of character development for Rick, it was a reassertion that Rick is the real leader. That moment "developed" Shane more than it did Rick.

Rick never wanted to keep the walkers in the barn, he only went along with it to appease Herschel so everyone could stay on the farm.

And why can't I read the ****ing random thought thread?!?!?!

Edited by renaissance

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.