NYT: The Myth of Voter Fraud

[Wrong Direction]

Lol. Especially with absentee voting picking up so much, this is probably happening everywhere.

[Larry]

This might turn into a really bad hijack, but should there be a single, national, identity system?

One card, that says "I am Larry". It maintains my address, my SSN, my citizenship, my gun permit, my Medicare card.

Everybody else then becomes a "client" of this database. (Each client with different restrictions.)

When I move, I change my address in one place. And everybody gets it. Some woman gets married, her name changes once.

I know that people are gonna come back with "Oh, no! Identity theft!". But me, I think that a system like that would make identity theft harder. (And, if it does happen, would make it more likely to be caught quickly, and much easier to deal with.)

Many, many, many, many, years ago, I was taught that one of the rules of IT was to never store the same information twice. Because if you store it twice, then you open yourself up to the possibility of the two copies becoming out of sync.

So, why should the identity "Larry", have, say, multiple addresses? One address tha the phone company keeps, one for the electric company, two for the telephone (three, if you count cellular), another for voter registration, one for driver's license, one for the IRS, . . .

(OK, maybe the identity "Larry" should have two addresses. Current mailing address, and legal place of residence. To cover people who are on vacation, or in the military, or whatever.)

[aREDSKIN]

I love the Right...they are all about supporting and defending the Constitution of the United States right up to the point where it gets in their way of trampling the rights of others.

Does the Gov't have an affirmative right & duty to ensure those who are not eligible to vote do not?? If not then why have elections in the first place. Those who vote and are not eligible to vote subvert the the entire system. There has to be a mechanism in place to ensure only those whom are eligible to vote are allowed to vote.

[Bang]

I would not have a problem with a card like that. Now if they started arresting people over it.. well, maybe

But I am not afraid that carrying a citizen's ID is giving Big Brother too much control over my life.

lets face it.. if a government wants to try and curtail freedoms or rights, the card isn't going to make it any easier or harder for them. Any power the ID supposedly gives them, they have already.

I think it serves more positives than potential negatives.

~Bang

[AsburySkinsFan]

There has to be a mechanism in place to ensure only those whom are eligible to vote are allowed to vote.

Agreed, now the trick is to come up with one that does not disenfranchise legal voters.

[aREDSKIN]

Agreed, now the trick is to come up with one that does not disenfranchise legal voters.

Requiring a authorized ID is not disenfranchising potential voters. If voting meant so much to a potential voter then obtaining the requisite ID would not be construed as burdensome whatsoever. A small exertion should not matter and a small price to pay ensue that only the eligible be allowed to vote. IMO the majority of the voting electorate would agree to such a system.

[Larry]

Agreed, now the trick is to come up with one that does not disenfranchise legal voters.

Well, unfortunately, now we get back to "how does the county clerk verify that Larry is a citizen, and that he isn't also voting absentee in Oklahoma?"

Note: Is it possible that Real ID will simplify this mess, a few years from now?

I'm going through all kinds of hoops, trying to get photo ID for Mom.

After working on it for about a year, I have

finally

gotten Oklahoma to send her birth certificate. Arrived yesterday.

And, it seems like Florida has changed their requirements. Now, you don't have to bring an original Social Security card (which they used to require, and I couldn't get a SS card for Mom because SS requires an

original

birth certificate (not a certified copy)) But now, all they need is

proof of

an SS number, and they say that a 1099 is good enough to prove that.

Now, I have all the paperwork needed to get Mom a photo ID.

Next available appointment: Three weeks.

But as I understand it, once everybody has supposedly jumped through all these hoops, then supposedly, your drivers license/photo ID will supposedly prove citizenship.

---------- Post added February-3rd-2012 at 06:53 PM ----------

Requiring a authorized ID is not disenfranchising potential voters. If voting meant so much to a potential voter then obtaining the requisite ID would not be construed as burdensome whatsoever. A small exertion should not matter and a small price to pay ensue that only the eligible be allowed to vote. IMO the majority of the voting electorate would agree to such a system.

Please see my post, above.

It's taken me over a year to obtain my mother's birth certificate, so I can get her a Florida photo ID.

Now, granted, I assume that Mom's case is not typical. (Apparently, a reason for a lot of the delay is that Mom's maiden name is spelled differently (there's an "e" instead of an "i" in it, on her BC from on other documentation.)

OTOH, Mom had a son working for her. She had ID (although it was expired). She's lived in the same address for 12 years. She's receiving Social Security, retirement income, health insurance. She has a mailing address, a fax machine, and email.

Suppose she'd been homeless. Or in a nursing home.

"Everybody should have government ID" is a nice sounding slogan. But yeah, I certainly expect that there are some people for whom getting one is not just a simple "lunch break at the DMV".

[aREDSKIN]

Well, unfortunately, now we get back to "how does the county clerk verify that Larry is a citizen, and that he isn't also voting absentee in Oklahoma?"

Note: Is it possible that Real ID will simplify this mess, a few years from now?

I'm going through all kinds of hoops, trying to get photo ID for Mom.

After working on it for about a year, I have

finally

gotten Oklahoma to send her birth certificate. Arrived yesterday.

And, it seems like Florida has changed their requirements. Now, you don't have to bring an original Social Security card (which they used to require, and I couldn't get a SS card for Mom because SS requires an

original

birth certificate (not a certified copy)) But now, all they need is

proof of

an SS number, and they say that a 1099 is good enough to prove that.

Now, I have all the paperwork needed to get Mom a photo ID.

Next available appointment: Three weeks.

But as I understand it, once everybody has supposedly jumped through all these hoops, then supposedly, your drivers license/photo ID will supposedly prove citizenship.

These are Federal requirements the States are obliged to followed to verify who you are. Damn BO didn't have to go through that much verification to run!!

[Thiebear]

Alcohol and Cigs: ID and age requirement

Sudafed: ID, name and address and signature + cost

Soon Sugar: ID needed with name and address and age limit.

Voting: too expensive to require ID.

When a princinct doesn't get counted due to bags of votes being mishandled: That should be a fine etc..

When a person does robocalls giving the wrong day: that should be a fine etc.

but again I'm a loon: I think there should be an ID for Mexican/American/Canadian that causes a 5% increase in fees if your in the others country but rights are equal, if you're there for 7+ years without breaks you get to vote. seems to make sense to me....

[AsburySkinsFan]

IMO the majority of the voting electorate would agree to such a system.

And if that were the case why hasn't there been a system in place? The evidence would suggest that the voting electorate doesn't want it and isn't pushing for it.

[Larry]

IMO the majority of the voting electorate would agree to such a system.

IMO, the majority of the voting electorate would agree to making it illegal for the homeless to vote.

(OK, maybe, if they're convinced that homeless people usually vote for Party X, then the 40% who vote Party X would oppose it, and the 40% who vote for Party Y would enthusiastically DEMAND it).

Does that make it right?

[LadySkinsFan]

Speaking of voter fraud: The Indiana Sec. of State (a Republican) has just been convicted of felony voter fraud. Sort of hoist on his own petard.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/04/charlie-white-voter-fraud_n_1254311.html

His attorneys are trying to get it reduced to misdemeanor so he can keep his elected position, because if the felonies stand, he can no longer serve because people convicted of felonies cannot serve in elected posts.

Sucks to be him today.

[Larry]

Reading the article, it looks like the guy has a kind-of plausible excuse.

Although, I also have to concede the fact that 12 out of 12 jurors apparently didn't think so.

[Prosperity]

I don't understand why it's preferable to favor people that don't mind jumping through arbitrary hoops to get to vote. I don't see an obvious relationship between competence and people that REALLY want to vote. I think more likely they are partisans and I don't think that's necessarily a positive characteristic.

[NoCalMike]

I would be willing to bet that the majority of fraud involved in elections these days has to do with what happens after you drop your ballot into a box that counts them electronically, rather than the notion that thousands of people not eligible to vote are showing up to vote anyway.