NavyDave Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Why is it beneficial for larger amounts of uninformed people to vote? Because the ignorant and clueless will more than likely blindly vote Team Donkey not focusing on the issues or ramifications of their vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baculus Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 It's a bit odd how "freedom" and "liberty" loving conservatives are suddenly demanding that people "show their papers" to vote. As the NYT article mentions, the main objective is to make it harder for Democratic voters to cast their ballots, allowing a tighter Republican grip on power. But this isn't new, either -- Republican efforts to disenfranchise (Democratic) voters goes back years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyDave Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Able bodied People who don't want to work 2 jobs or jobs they are over qualified for and apply for welfare and food stamps instead, have to display ID before getting handouts err filing for Government Assistance, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baculus Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Because the ignorant and clueless will more than likely blindly vote Team Donkey not focusing on the issues or ramifications of their vote. Yeah, as if Republican voters have demonstrate a superior effort to educate themselves before casting their vote, or did we suddenly forget about two terms of a Bush administration? ---------- Post added October-11th-2011 at 04:37 PM ---------- able bodied people who don't want to work 2 jobs or jobs they are over qualified for and apply for welfare and food stamps instead, have to display id before getting handouts err filing for government assistance, right? "show us your papers!" ---------- Post added October-11th-2011 at 04:39 PM ---------- Explain to me how that is in any way' date=' shape or form a Libertarian position.You are arguing that the only way you can vote is if the government says you are who you say you are.[/quote'] It's not a libertarian position, because it involves a state intervention. Here is the thing: the people on this thread who support these laws go out of their way to ignore any sort of possible impact on people (the elderly, students, etc.) who might be negatively affected by these laws. But I don't think they care at all. Again, this stems from (1) a hysterical fear of people illegally voting, and (2) a desire to retain power. But here is the thing: They don't seem to realize that voting fraud is probably going to happen via unscrupulous polling workers, and not by any sort of grand effort to cheat the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyDave Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 It's a bit odd how "freedom" and "liberty" loving conservatives are suddenly demanding that people "show their papers" to vote. Yeah if we can show our ID and vote once and in one place only, it shouldn't be that difficult for the more highly intelligent(alegedly Liberals)to do the sameAs the NYT article mentions, the main objective is to make it harder for Democratic voters to cast their ballots, allowing a tighter Republican grip on power. But this isn't new, either -- Republican efforts to disenfranchise (Democratic) voters goes back years. How is it harder for Dems to cast their votes if all they have to do is display their ID card? You have to show it when you make a large purchase with a credit card, when you hit the lottery, go to the hospital, apply for unemployment, etc. ---------- Post added October-11th-2011 at 11:46 AM ---------- "show us your papers!" Ahh the quote most famous by the Nationalist Socialist Party. They were all about unions and Health Care too as most on the far left are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baculus Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 How is it harder for Dems to cast their votes if all they have to do is display their ID card? You have to show it when you make a large purchase with a credit card, when you hit the lottery, go to the hospital, apply for unemployment, etc. Maybe you should read this article for another opinion on this issue: "The Times-Free Press of Chattanooga last week reported that when Dorothy Cooper, 96, a lifelong voter, went to a state office to obtain her free photo ID, she brought her birth certificate, Social Security card, a rent receipt and her lease. She was turned away because her married name was not on her birth certificate. Cooper, who is black and has never had a driver's license, said she didn't realize she should have brought her marriage license too. "Officials recommended that Cooper avoid another wait in line on her walker by voting absentee, which under the new law does not require a photo ID. The retired domestic said she will miss voting at her neighborhood poll, where (important point) everyone knows her. "Democratic secretary of state candidate Alison Lundergan Grimes cites a similar example to explain her opposition to Johnson's proposal. It would "require my 91-year-old grandmother to go get a government-issued ID to vote at the precinct she's been voting at for the last 40 years." Read more: http://www.kentucky.com/2011/10/11/1916325/voter-id-laws-not-needed-partisan.html#ixzz1aUbP0UBm As I said, the Republicans have been trying to erect different barriers to restrict voters who may vote for the Democratic Party. If Democrats were doing this, ND, you and other pro-Republican voters would be going nuts. But hey, since these laws are aimed at the other party, it's all good, right? LIberty and freedom, my arse. What a bunch of hypocrisy. This is all about politics, which is why Republicans have opposed motor-voter registration efforts, because lower income people may be more likely to vote for the Democrats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
December90 Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Why? It's their right to not have them if they don't want to have them, and their right to vote cannot be taken from them because they choose to exercise another of their rights as free citizens.---------- Post added October-10th-2011 at 10:54 AM ---------- And yet, it is a burden. *edit And when it comes to voting a government CANNOT mandate burdens upon the people in order for them to exercise their right to vote. Proving you are eligible to vote is simply stated not an undue burden. Do you believe that people should not be required to register to vote? Pretty simple when you register here is what you need to cast your vote and if you don't have any of them then here are the forms to get them. The only ones who will say that there is no voter fraud in the US are either the ones committing the fraud or the ones with their heads (um... how can I say this on this board cleanly? ... doing a self colorectal screening) ---------- Post added October-11th-2011 at 12:59 PM ---------- How is it harder for Dems to cast their votes if all they have to do is display their ID card? You have to show it when you make a large purchase with a credit card, when you hit the lottery, go to the hospital, apply for unemployment, etc. I can only guess that the point of the article is that there are more uneducated uninformed Sheeple in who call themselves Democrat than call themselves Republican. They can figure out how to vote [D] as many times as they can, but they cannot figure out how to prove they are eligible to vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Yea, we should just let everyone vote,leagal or not, and as often as they want too. Right, because that's exactly what LKB said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimboDaMan Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 The only ones who will say that there is no voter fraud in the US are either the ones committing the fraud or the ones with their heads (um... how can I say this on this board cleanly? ... doing a self colorectal screening)Care to back that up? Not with 10 wingnut sites screaming about ACORN, but with actual news of significant voting fraud. You can scour the internet and I'm sure in a country of 350 million you will find a handful of documented cases over the years. But that doesn't represent a significant voting fraud problem, and the tiny number of fradulent votes is dwarfed every year by the people who are disenfranchised by the inability to get to a polling site during open hours.How's the view from in there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Change the words to, I love the left, And I can agree. The problem is we are both probably right. Agreed, I'm just referring to this topic in particular with that post though. ---------- Post added October-11th-2011 at 02:13 PM ---------- Proving you are eligible to vote is simply stated not an undue burden. If you are properly registered then you are eligible, end of discussion. Do you believe that people should not be required to register to vote? Pretty simple when you register here is what you need to cast your vote and if you don't have any of them then here are the forms to get them. And yet again for the 100th time what you are suggesting is that someone needs to sacrifice one right in order to exercise another...brilliant. The only ones who will say that there is no voter fraud in the US are either the ones committing the fraud or the ones with their heads (um... how can I say this on this board cleanly? ... doing a self colorectal screening)Yeah, that's right, only Texas would beg to differ....3 million dollars spent on a voter fraud investigation to prove that there was not widespread voter fraud....brilliant!! But, seriously don't let the facts get in the way of your opinion, it's far more entertaining this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
December90 Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 This is all about politics, which is why Republicans have opposed motor-voter registration efforts, because lower income people may be more likely to vote for the Democrats. So what you are saying is that those who pay nothing into the system and get paid by that system tend to vote for the people who pay them off with other peoples money? And I thought that the Democrats were supposed to be the "intellectual elite" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 So what you are saying is that those who pay nothing into the system and get paid by that system tend to vote for the people who pay them off with other peoples money?And I thought that the Democrats were supposed to be the "intellectual elite" No what he's saying is that the Democrats tend to care more whether or not the poor vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 I was wondering if anyone has found the actual law that says an ID is required for all adults in xx state? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allannis Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Right, because that's exactly what LKB said. I was just adding on to what he said.You don't agree?::evilg: ---------- Post added October-11th-2011 at 05:10 PM ---------- No what he's saying is that the Democrats tend to care more whether or not the poor vote. Are we saying the poor don't have the means to obtain an ID. What really is the big deal with people showing an ID when they vote . You have to by law show two forms of ID to get a job. maybe a picture on your voter ID card would solve the problem.I'm pretty sure that in a lot of states it is against the law not to have an ID. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 No what he's saying is that the Democrats tend to care more whether or not the poor vote. The Dems care about making laws that make it easier for people who are more likely to vote for Dems be able to vote. It has nothing to do with some great moral cause. The GOP is systematically dismantling what the Dems put in place because it benefits the. The exact and only reason the Dems did it in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 The Dems care about making laws that make it easier for people who are more likely to vote for Dems be able to vote. It has nothing to do with some great moral cause.The GOP is systematically dismantling what the Dems put in place because it benefits the. The exact and only reason the Dems did it in the first place. You can read the mind of every Democrat? Wow, that's impressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 You can read the mind of every Democrat?Wow, that's impressive. As much as the lefties here claim they can read those of every GOPer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 As much as the lefties here claim they can read those of every GOPer. So there is another reasonable argument for requiring IDs for voting other than limiting who can vote? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Sure. there are people actually are troubled by the possibility of voter fraud. Or are YOU now claiming to be able to read the minds of every GOPer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Sure. there are people actually are troubled by the possibility of voter fraud. Or are YOU now claiming to be able to read the minds of every GOPer? No, but I think there are a lot GOPers that aren't for requiring voter IDs. I think there are another group, like myself, that do support it, but would simultaneously push for a free required national ID, which would have other benefits. For the small government, decrease regulation GOPers that in this case are for expanding government powers/regulation to solve a problem that isn't really a problem (at least that won't be fixed by the proposed solution based on the info in this thread), they are either lying or just ignorant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Or the third option, they're just political. So the Dems pass laws that help Dem candidates, and now the GOP passes laws or repeals previous laws to do the opposite. Scorpions all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Or the third option, they're just political. So the Dems pass laws that help Dem candidates, and now the GOP passes laws or repeals previous laws to do the opposite. Scorpions all. But then they aren't really worried about voter fraud, right? And only if you assume that Dem candidates are passing the laws to help them vs. helping their constituents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Oh, Ive been clear from the beginning that the GOP isnt actually concerned with voter fraud (though I did post a link to a database of instances of it). And I also believe that the reason for the Dems actions are to benefit them, not "the people". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Oh, Ive been clear from the beginning that the GOP isnt actually concerned with voter fraud (though I did post a link to a database of instances of it).And I also believe that the reason for the Dems actions are to benefit them, not "the people". But if by "the people" you mean people that are likely to be disenfranchised by requiring an ID then what is good for them is good for their constituents. The logic is consistent, and therefore much more difficult to tangle political motivations from real concern about an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 It's a convenient by product of their actions, not the reason for them. And remember FLA 2000. It was the DEMS who went to court to try and block military ballots from being counted. And the GOP was in court arguing about the sanctity of a vote. Both were lying about their intentions, as both are lying now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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