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NFL coaches no longer know how to close out games, and neither does Kyle Shanahan


SkinsHokieFan

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This weekend, and this season have been very interesting in how many big comebacks there have been. I am not talking 10 point comebacks, but 20+ point comebacks

A few that come to mind right away

Week 4

Cowboys vs Lions- Lions come back down from 24 in the 3rd quarter

Eagles vs 49ers- 49ers down 23-3 in the 2nd half and come back for the win

Cardinals vs Giants- Giants down late 27-17, come back and win in the 4th 31-27

Atlanta vs Seattle- Atlanta up 27-7 in the 2nd half, has to sweat out a Seattle missed FG and hold on to win 30-28

Week 3

Patriots vs Bills- Bills down 21, come back to win 34-31

Vikings vs Lions- Lions down 20 at halftime, Lions come back to win 26-23

Week 2

Raiders vs Bills- Raiders up 21 to 3 at halftime, Bills win 38 to 35

Week 1

Cowboys vs Jets- Jets rally from 14 down in the 4th to beat the Cowboys 27-24

Trends? Tough to tell 4 weeks into the season. It tells me either a) the NFL is now a comeback league, or B) coaches no longer know how to shorten a game and win in the 4th quarter

Which brings us to Kyle Shanahan

Kyle is new school. He wants to do what GB did against Denver, and when up big continue to score points. This is what New England mastered in 2007, rather then run the ball in the 4th quarter, they play actioned on 1st and kept scoring.

We saw the Redskins get bitten by this vs Dallas, and nearly against the Rams.

The Redskins in particular were once a team that if there was a 10 point 4th quarter lead, shut the door. 8-9 runs in a row, 3-4 first downs, suddenly the last 6 minutes of the 4th quarter are gone and the game is over.

It doesn't appear that teams are unable to run the ball, on the contrary the teams that blew these leads have RBs such as Adrian Peterson, Lesean McCoy, Michael Turner, Darren McFadden. These are guys you can close a game out with.

Simply put, coaches no longer want to run out the clock. Jason Garret for years has put the ball in the hands of Romo sits to pee in the 4th quarter with a lead, and Romo sits to pee consistantly throws games away. If Dallas simply handed off the ball the entire 2nd half vs the Lions and punted, they win.

The New England model of 2007, keep scoring damnit, is starting to bite teams in the ass, including ours. And these are teams with excellent running backs (Vikings, Falcons, Eagles) who are refusing to run in the 4th quarter.

My fear is Kyle falling into this trap. Its no longer an anamoly to see a 20+ point comeback, and that is more of a result of teams passing late, not killing clock and commiting late turnovers.

Its something to watch as the season goes along. It almost cost the Redskins yesterday. It has cost the Cowboys, Vikings, Eagles, Patriots, Raiders, badly this season

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Another difference is just how efficient offenses can be these days. It wasn't too long ago where a 3-point lead at the 2 minute warning seemed like a win in the bank. Teams just couldn't march down the field the way they can now.

More teams feel like they need to keep scoring or their opponents will creep back into the game while they run into the line three times and punt it away. I would agree that Dallas being up 3 scores in the 4th quarter was a situation that might never require another passing play. But I think teams are figuring out that they'd rather go get more points when they have a buffer than when they see that they are now up 4 with three minutes to go and have lost all rhythm they had on offense.

Good thread.

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agreed, SHF. especially when its starting to work, you run the ball with a lead, especially on the road. you run it down their throats.

like i said in another thread, i swear its like play callers calling plays like they are playing madden. everyone loves the big, sexy play. we have seen garrett do it. in fact, he did it last year vs the skins , which is exactly why we won the game. unfortunately, it seems kyle thinks his system will work with grossman and moss as it did with schaub and AJ.

i admit i was excited when he came here with mike. now, i'm not sure he has a clue how to 'win' a game as opposed to putting up nice stats for his QB. witness arian foster tearing it up in houston last year. dont think that happens if he's still there. he just appears to want to pass no matter what.

its a big part of why the vikings are 0-4.

i dont get it. the passing league trend apparently means you pass even if it loses you the game.

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You're an old crumudgeon, living in the past.

This isn't 1982 anymore.

That doesn't work in this league anymore.

You can't just pound somebody with the run game anymore.

Be ready for these because this is what i got for basically saying that Kyle was too pass happy in the second half vs Dallas and he got too cute on 3rd and 1 yesterday.

Madden football:whatever year, has ruined the football IQ of the younger generation.

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You're an old crumudgeon, living in the past.

This isn't 1982 anymore.

That doesn't work in this league anymore.

You can't just pound somebody with the run game anymore.

Be ready for these because this is what i got for basically saying that Kyle was too pass happy in the second half vs Dallas and he got too cute on 3rd and 1 yesterday.

Madden football:whatever year, has ruined the football IQ of the younger generation.

I think there is a difference in a 1-4 point game, and a 17-20 point game.

I'd do the same thing vs Dallas. Against the Rams, I'd have ridden Torrain to an easy win

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NNT. Did we really need another thread slamming Kyle Shanahan? Wouldn't one of the previous 3 or 4 been a good place for you to drop this deuce?

Uh, this is a pretty good thread on its own.

I like it and the point. I wish that we COULD just run it out with our THREE starting running backs. :(

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I think there is a difference in a 1-4 point game, and a 17-20 point game.

I'd do the same thing vs Dallas. Against the Rams, I'd have ridden Torrain to an easy win

Everytime we balanced the offense vs Dallas, we got to the redzone and actually scored.

2 runs to 11 passes in the 4th qtr is Spurrier Ball and doesn't work.

Dad should interject more late in games.

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The thing was after Torain had some success and we got up by 17, the Rams started stacking the box hard. I'm talking 8 in the box and just run blitzing the **** out of us and we were going no where. You have to have success with the one-on-one routes on the outside, and we didn't. I have no problems with the playcalling yesterday. Very bad execution on our part.

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The thing was after Torain had some success and we got up by 17, the Rams started stacking the box hard. I'm talking 8 in the box and just run blitzing the **** out of us and we were going no where. You have to have success with the one-on-one routes on the outside, and we didn't. I have no problems with the playcalling yesterday. Very bad execution on our part.

They stacked it so bad that Torain got us a first down that allowed Rex to take a knee at the end of the game.

When your running game is hot and you ride it to a 17-3 advantage, you don't abandon it on 3rd and 1 to throw a 3 yard pass to Moss in traffic.

The Cowboys kept throwing the ball up 24 points and it bit them in the butt. :)

We almost did the same thing.

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I'm a big believer in English...how about NFL coaches no longer KNOW how to close out games.

shouldn't that sentence end with a question mark, mr. english?

:)

you know people are going through your old posts looking for spelling and grammatical errors now, right?

:D

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I know everyone has been slamming kyle for passing late in games, but I'm all in favor of it. I have sat back and watch too long our leads disappear because we got stagnant on offense and stopped attacking, their is no such thing as a safe lead in today's NFL, and unless you have a dominant run game (we don't) then you can just sit back and pound away. We have to keep attacking until there really is no hope, which would probably be a double digit lead with under five minutes to go and you have the ball.

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I know everyone has been slamming kyle for passing late in games, but I'm all in favor of it. I have sat back and watch too long our leads disappear because we got stagnant on offense and stopped attacking, their is no such thing as a safe lead in today's NFL, and unless you have a dominant run game (we don't) then you can just sit back and pound away. We have to keep attacking until there really is no hope, which would probably be a double digit lead with under five minutes to go and you have the ball.

im not opposed to the concept, necessarily, but there are a couple of problems with this. first, we dont have the horses to carry that buggy. second, we've tried it and it hasnt worked. which means, it was quite possibly the wrong thing to do. third, you say we dont have a dominant running game. maybe, maybe not. we dont really know. i do know that the running game was starting to work when when scored our only TD in dallas- so much so that dallas bit on the play action, leaving hightower wide open for the TD. then we run twice the rest of the game? if you cant look at that as exhibit A as to how kyles playcalling is questionable, you probably have been playing too much madden.

fact is, running the ball with a lead is tried and true. it may be boring, but it burns clock and, when the D is wearing down late in a game, it wins games. calling 19 passes and 2 runs late in games on the road with rex and moss as your weapons does not.

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I know everyone has been slamming kyle for passing late in games, but I'm all in favor of it. I have sat back and watch too long our leads disappear because we got stagnant on offense and stopped attacking, their is no such thing as a safe lead in today's NFL, and unless you have a dominant run game (we don't) then you can just sit back and pound away. We have to keep attacking until there really is no hope, which would probably be a double digit lead with under five minutes to go and you have the ball.

We may not have a dominant running game, but we sure did yesterday and Kyle didn't have a clue as how to use it in the 4th quarter.

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im not opposed to the concept, necessarily, but there are a couple of problems with this. first, we dont have the horses to carry that buggy. second, we've tried it and it hasnt worked. which means, it was quite possibly the wrong thing to do. third, you say we dont have a dominant running game. maybe, maybe not. we dont really know. i do know that the running game was starting to work when when scored our only TD in dallas- so much so that dallas bit on the play action, leaving hightower wide open for the TD. then we run twice the rest of the game? if you cant look at that as exhibit A as to how kyles playcalling is questionable, you probably have been playing too much madden.

fact is, running the ball with a lead is tried and true. it may be boring, but it burns clock and, when the D is wearing down late in a game, it wins games. calling 19 passes and 2 runs late in games on the road with rex and moss as your weapons does not.

I like your points, but that was on the goal line, and a lot of teams would bite on that. But if they are stacking the box and we have to go 10 yards, it's a different story. I think it really depends on who you are playing. We could run the ball against the rams and not get the first down and expect our D to shut them down, but against a team like Dallas who has a better run defense and an explosive offense you probably don't want to give them the ball back with a 1 point lead. Trust me I'm all in favor of running out the clock with the running game, but sometimes it's not always the smartest move. Look back to the Joe Gibbs years as my exhibit A and remember all the leads we squandered because we tried to milk the clock too early.

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On the season:

54/46 pass/run ratio

4th in rushing attempts

6th in rushing yardage

18th in yards per rushing attempt

That's pretty well-balanced playcalling by modern NFL standards. In fact, with the sole exception of the Texans the only teams who really best us in run/pass ratio have QB situations that are currently at least as iffy as ours (Raiders, Jaguars, Vikings). That last stat is key, though. We really haven't been consistent enough as a running team to get away with doing what everyone who ****es about Kyle's play calling wants us to do and pretend to be the 1982 Super Bowl winning squad with the Hogs and Riggo in to close out games. We are still a team that has to be somewhat unpredictable offensively in order to be successful and that means we are going to have to occasionally have some success passing on first down while trying to eat clock in the 3rd and 4th quarters. Our coaching staff clearly knows this, the problem is that success is predicated on execution and our execution in the passing game has been downright atrocious at times with Rex at the helm. It's a tough spot for any play caller to be in and I don't see how you can lay so much blame at the feet of Kyle. You may think he gets too cute at times (as I do) but overall he's done a very nice job this season.

tl;dr: We can be the 1982 Redskins squad late in games when we start executing like the 1982 Redskins squad throughout games.

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