Big Play TD's

[Skins Wingman]

I understand fully, but appreciate a big play being something other than a long TD. If is great in video games and fantastic for your fantasy teams, but not always the best thing in an actual game. I am guessing that Fitzgerald would trade his big play for a win in the game resulting from a bunch of small plays made at critical times.

With that said... F it...go deep!

im not saying that i would trade wins for big plays. im just trying to figure out why our team cant hit these big plays like every other team in the nfl does. sometimes you need a big TD play to help you win. without fitzgeralds big play, the cardinals had ZERO chance to win. that play brought them back into the game.

jason campbell threw a ball up to some receiver last week, and he came down with a 50yd TD reception. he never did that with us, so does that mean the raiders have better receivers? i dunno. maybe we never call plays like that. i dunno. the point of this thread was to get feedback on why people think we cant hit these big runs and passes.

id like to see the redskins on the highlight reels every once in a while

[SkinsCrushCowboys]

im not saying that i would trade wins for big plays. im just trying to figure out why our team cant hit these big plays like every other team in the nfl does. sometimes you need a big TD play to help you win. without fitzgeralds big play, the cardinals had ZERO chance to win. that play brought them back into the game.

jason campbell threw a ball up to some receiver last week, and he came down with a 50yd TD reception. he never did that with us, so does that mean the raiders have better receivers? i dunno. maybe we never call plays like that. i dunno. the point of this thread was to get feedback on why people think we cant hit these big runs and passes.

id like to see the redskins on the highlight reels every once in a while

gotcha... the offense is a quick hitting offense andup until this year our O line did not allow enough time for a QB to drop, set and throw deep on a regular basis. That may change some. That has also been a derailer in Grossmans carreer, going deep for the home run and ending a drive with a bad play. High risk, high reward. It is intersting that we do not have a lot a big ones, but that may change as teams have to really stack the box to stuff the run.

Shanny also has a history of going deep first play after a turnover. We will see.

[Skins Wingman]

gotcha... the offense is a quick hitting offense andup until this year our O line did not allow enough time for a QB to drop, set and throw deep on a regular basis. That may change some. That has also been a derailer in Grossmans carreer, going deep for the home run and ending a drive with a bad play. High risk, high reward. It is intersting that we do not have a lot a big ones, but that may change as teams have to really stack the box to stuff the run.

Shanny also has a history of going deep first play after a turnover. We will see.

this also goes for runs too. the last big TD run we had was portis back in '05.. it was 47 yards. after what hightower did in preseason, i was looking forward to breaking some big runs. against dallas would be the perfect start. remember santanas monday night miracle? took 2 big TD catches to win that game

[SkinsCrushCowboys]

this also goes for runs too. the last big TD run we had was portis back in '05.. it was 47 yards. after what hightower did in preseason, i was looking forward to breaking some big runs. against dallas would be the perfect start. remember santanas monday night miracle? took 2 big TD catches to win that game

Just for you...I will guarantee at least one play Monday night for the Skins over 40 yards...book it!

[Skins Wingman]

Just for you...I will guarantee at least one play Monday night for the Skins over 40 yards...book it!

its gotta be a TD tho

[wrecker]

I understand fully, but appreciate a big play being something other than a long TD. If is great in video games and fantastic for your fantasy teams, but not always the best thing in an actual game. I am guessing that Fitzgerald would trade his big play for a win in the game resulting from a bunch of small plays made at critical times.

With that said... F it...go deep!

I incorrectly used the term "big play" instead of "homerun play".

If you choose to read the previous posts you may just get the point the OP is making.

POINT : The Washington Redskins very rarely score touchdowns with plays of 40 yards or more as do many other teams in the NFL....some with less talent than us.

It has nothing to do with how well our overall offense is doing, nor does it have anything to do with winning or losing. Hello!

[Goingforburgundy]

Last year wernt we ranked in the Top 5 in plays over 40 yards? I havnt seen nearly as many deep throws this year

[SkinsCrushCowboys]

I incorrectly used the term "big play" instead of "homerun play".

If you choose to read the previous posts you may just get the point the OP is making.

POINT : The Washington Redskins very rarely score touchdowns with plays of 40 yards or more as do many other teams in the NFL....some with less talent than us.

It has nothing to do with how well our overall offense is doing, nor does it have anything to do with winning or losing. Hello!

Real sorry the Skins are not helping our your fanstasy team with the bomb....this team has SUCKED for the last 15 years. We have not had a QB that was more that marginal during that time, a handful of head coaches, old players and you wonder why we have not been really successful at the long TD plays?? Hell, we have not been successful at anything...hopefully things are changing, but we are 2 games into a season with new players and things should get better.

True, we have struggled in scoring touchdowns of more than 40 yards....we have struggled period.

Hello!

[Skins Wingman]

Last year wernt we ranked in the Top 5 in plays over 40 yards? I havnt seen nearly as many deep throws this year

yes, but my point is they weren't TD's. how many of those big plays turned into stalled drives, field goals, or missed field goals.

[wrecker]

Real sorry the Skins are not helping our your fanstasy team with the bomb....this team has SUCKED for the last 15 years. We have not had a QB that was more that marginal during that time, a handful of head coaches, old players and you wonder why we have not been really successful at the long TD plays?? Hell, we have not been successful at anything...hopefully things are changing, but we are 2 games into a season with new players and things should get better.

True, we have struggled in scoring touchdowns of more than 40 yards....we have struggled period.

Hello!

I don't play fantasy football.

You will never grasp the gist of this thread.

[santanathegreat]

10 short passes for a TD or 1 long pass for a TD...who cares. If the shot is there I am sure we will take it....on the fourth down TD last week, he checked off of an open WR in the flat and threw into the endzone for a TD. Take what the defense gives. I nice long time consuming drive is fine with me. Wears out the opponents D and rests ours.

It matters.

Threat of the deep passes spread the defense out and opens up room for the running game. It's psychological.

[Truant]

Fitzgerald is an elite WR. Steven Jackson was an elite RB and still has it when healthy... at the start of that carry he was fresh and ready. A lot of it comes down to players. Look at our core offense:

Grossman - cast off

Hightower - traded away

Moss - not highly coveted when he was a free agent, but he definitely would have been scooped up

Gaffney - traded away

Armstrong - bounced around practice squads and lower league football first

Cooley - not a supreme talent, but good player when healthy. not explosive

Davis - showing signs, but to this point in his career i wouldn't say explosive

These aren't players that are designed to beat you physically. We have system that goes beyond just winning one on one matchups. We operate within the confines of the offense and try to free someone up in space. The answer isn't one thing. I'm positive Kyle would have liked Grossman to hit Gaffney/Davis in weeks 1 and 2 in-stride, but there's the talent gap. A QB like Brady probably makes those throws for TDs.

If you're looking for the "cool", sorry to disappoint. Look at those players from a pure talent perspective. Everyone in the NFL is good. To have explosive plays you need to have the right mix of talent and playcalling. We have the talent to run a very competent offense and, with more time in the offense and likely skill upgrades, the big plays will come. But to yearn for this cast of characters to do so is greedy.

[SkinsCrushCowboys]

I don't play fantasy football.

You will never grasp the gist of this thread.

You are right...I am wrong.... I need to to "grasp" some lunch...

[wrecker]

You are right...I am wrong.... I need to to "grasp" some lunch...

Go have some tender ribs for lunch!

[SkinsCrushCowboys]

Go have some tender ribs for lunch!

I am thinking the same thing brotha! Hail....

[skinnyskins]

Home run plays look great for RedZone Channel and fantasy, but I like having our team able to sustain grinding (6 min+) drives and move the chains. It's a huge change from the stutter and choke drives of the past decade. Also, it keeps their D on the field and wears them down. Just look at our time of possession domination these past two weeks and the amount of yards we've produced.

Im all for us having a home run play but let's not get too picky about how we score. The big plays will come, but the Team shouldn't force them.

[eljeasel]

Let me throw out a factor we havent discussed: Downfield blocking

I heard some coach talking about one of the reasons teams get these bigger plays and even home run plays was they had great downfield blocking. This at least intuitively makes sense. This coach went on (Im not mentioning who because I honestly cant remember) to say that another factor that helps downfield blocking is bigger receivers.

In the last 5 or so years, the only bigger receivers who were on the field were Cooley and Sellers regularly. The other guys on the field were Moss, Randle El, Keenan McCardell, one of the Caldwells, and Thrash. Guys like Devin Thomas, Malcolm Kelly, and Marko Mitchell never made it regularly onto the field, which isnt to say they should have. Further, our line was so run down and deficient in pass protection that Cooley and Seller were often tucked in to protect and couldnt get out downfield (not to say Cooley is a fantastic blocker anyways).

It might not explain everything, but it something we hadnt discussed at all.

[acuratl1984]

IMO, its on the QB. The last two years AA has been behind the D but we cant seem to make the throw. Like week 1 with Gaff and last week with Davis. Love the way Rex is playing but if we want to make the big plays he has to make those throws.

Note: last year it was usually McNabb under throwing AA.

Dont blame it all on McNabb, there was quite a few plays where Armstrong just could not stay up after the catch, either he falls for no reason or runs out of bounds.

[Darth Tater]

For about the first half of last season, the only TDs we scored were big plays. If I was defending the 'Skins last year, I'd have played defense to stop the 'Skins from hitting the big play TD because once the team needed it, the short game sucked hard. With the potential exception of the Davis play Sunday, teams seem to still be defending it that way. We know Grossman can hit the long ball and Hightower and Helu can likely break big. We get our short game back to 2008 standards along with a solid short passing game without sacrificing the threat we established last year, we'll be poppin' big play TDs.

[Skins Wingman]

Let me throw out a factor we havent discussed: Downfield blocking

I heard some coach talking about one of the reasons teams get these bigger plays and even home run plays was they had great downfield blocking. This at least intuitively makes sense. This coach went on (Im not mentioning who because I honestly cant remember) to say that another factor that helps downfield blocking is bigger receivers.

In the last 5 or so years, the only bigger receivers who were on the field were Cooley and Sellers regularly. The other guys on the field were Moss, Randle El, Keenan McCardell, one of the Caldwells, and Thrash. Guys like Devin Thomas, Malcolm Kelly, and Marko Mitchell never made it regularly onto the field, which isnt to say they should have. Further, our line was so run down and deficient in pass protection that Cooley and Seller were often tucked in to protect and couldnt get out downfield (not to say Cooley is a fantastic blocker anyways).

It might not explain everything, but it something we hadnt discussed at all.

thank you

somebody who actually read my OP and is offering good information. i never even thought about that, it does make sense. thank you for your contribution.

its so funny how many people on here are "anti-big play" like, 'nah man, i hope moss drops that bomb so we can have a longer drive." thats so dumb. you take yards however u can get them in the nfl. its not like its an option, either we have big plays or long drives. during our drives, we have opportunities to make big plays, but we just cant get over the hump. that is why i started to thread, to find out what we need to hit these plays. people are taking this way out of context.

[Darth Tater]

if we want to start scaring teams and show that we're for real, i think we need to hit some of these big plays. seems like we can never bust one tho. i look at teams like the patriots and they make a 99yd TD pass look so easy.

But if you look at WHY the hit a 99 yard TD, you will realize it was because they have such an effective short game.

---------- Post added September-23rd-2011 at 12:37 PM ----------

looking at nfl.com real quick, looks like portis had a 47yd td run back in 2005. his longest was 78 in 2009 but it wasnt a touchdown. there was a couple of years in between where our longest runs were in the 30's.. :doh:

That goes back to having only one true WR threat who was also our best downfield blocker and a QB that couldn't consistently take advantage of the threat. Teams could roll to Moss' side, meaning when we ran it, even when CP got 7-8 yards downfield cleanly, Moss could take one guy out but there'd be two that CP would have to shake meaning that even if he was successful, some one behind would have the angle and time to make the play.

---------- Post added September-23rd-2011 at 12:54 PM ----------

yes, but my point is they weren't TD's. how many of those big plays turned into stalled drives, field goals, or missed field goals.

Big plays come in the style of offense we run when you've got a solid short game threat that can only be defended by sacrificing over the top help and/or the quick pass rush. That is, we need to establish a fear of our running game and/or short passing game. I think this'll come given that in 2 regular season games and 4 preseason ones, we've pretty much dominated TOP and have a solid execution rate in the short game (except in the RZ where it has been only average).

[wrecker]

Also the constant turnover of QB's, RCVRs, OL, coaches, coordinators hasn't helped much. I think if we can somehow keep a roster and coaching staff together for few years, we will hit a lot more of these plays.

It seems so far that Rex has a pretty good feel with Moss, Gafney, Davis and AAA. It may not be long before we start hitting some homeruns.

[Darth Tater]

Let me throw out a factor we havent discussed: Downfield blocking

I heard some coach talking about one of the reasons teams get these bigger plays and even home run plays was they had great downfield blocking. This at least intuitively makes sense. This coach went on (Im not mentioning who because I honestly cant remember) to say that another factor that helps downfield blocking is bigger receivers.

In the last 5 or so years, the only bigger receivers who were on the field were Cooley and Sellers regularly. The other guys on the field were Moss, Randle El, Keenan McCardell, one of the Caldwells, and Thrash. Guys like Devin Thomas, Malcolm Kelly, and Marko Mitchell never made it regularly onto the field, which isnt to say they should have. Further, our line was so run down and deficient in pass protection that Cooley and Seller were often tucked in to protect and couldnt get out downfield (not to say Cooley is a fantastic blocker anyways).

It might not explain everything, but it something we hadnt discussed at all.

Thing is, Moss is one of the best downfield blockers in the NFL. He's not small, size-wise he is one of the biggest guy WR on the roster (only Paul is bigger in that respect). In any case, technique not size is the key to down field blocking (Austin at 175 or so is one of the better down field blockers on our team). Our problem with long runs not getting good down field blocking is that Moss has pretty much been our best threat in the passing game while he's also been the best down field blocker.

[Nomadskin11]

I think the reason is that more often than not at least one of the players in the long-play equation is an elite player at a skill position. We haven't had an elite player on offense in a very, very long time.

I love Moss, and Cooley, and I appreciated Portis. But they are as close as we have gotten to that elite level, which they aren't. And as much as I love my Skins, I can say that even if he was in his prime Moss is not a Fitzgerald or a Calvin Johnson, or for that matter a Steve Smith. Cooley is no Gates, and Portis was no Peterson. We've barely had even average quarterbacks, so I won't go there.

That being said, we do have several above average skill players all the way around right now to varying degrees, including Moss, Cooley, Hightower, Helu and perhaps most importantly, Grossman. I also think that of our current players, Freddy Davis has the talent and now the drive to become elite. I believe that once the offense gets its rhythm & timing going, we are going to start seeing some of those TD plays we have been missing.

As an added point, I also think Santana in his prime with a good quarterback and franchise stability would have produced many more big plays than he did (and he was already in on most of the few big TD plays we have had in recent years.)

[Rpredskins]

Big play offense is not as good as you think. The main reason we are 2-0 is time of possession and field position. The NFL is at a point where basically every team except Seattle is capable of moving the ball and scoring fast, so getting a huge 70 yd touchdown doesn't give you the kind of advantage it used to.

Look at the Eagles, their defense is supposedly one of the best but they give up 20+ points per game because Vick/Jackson/Mccoy score so quickly. Last week Arizona had 2 big touchdown passes but weren't consistent enough to keep drives going. That gave Rex ample opportunity to win the game.