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Pakistan's ISI (Intelligence Agency) urged attacks on US Targets


CounterTrey

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http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/us/Pakistan-ISI-urged-attacks-on-US-targets-Officials/articleshow/10078409.cms

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-15024344

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/us-sharpens-warning-to-pakistan/2011/09/20/gIQAdqlNjK_story.html

Keep giving them billions of dollars each year. Keep molly coddling them and every once in a while they will catch someone and turn them into you to appease you. But sooner or later, just like a snake you let enter your home, you will get bitten.

Had the United States paid attention to Indias concerns and repeated warnings of terrorism emanating out of Pakistan, 9/11 and most other incidents would have been avoided.

But keep giving them billions because most of that money will eventually find its way to groups like the Haqqani network which will then use it to strike back at you.

It time this country gets tough with Pakistan once and for all. The time for BS is over....and as an Indian American I couldn't be happier. We are sick and tired of getting bombed and blown up too and it happens to us more than anyone else each year.

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The ISI has been doing this for decades now. No big surprise.

We know very well what goes on in Pakistan. We can't do much because any kind of major political unrest could put very dangerous people in control of a nuclear state. It's better two have faced backstabbers than people who want to completely destroy you and your allies.

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Yes please explain this theory of yours..I'm interested to hear your take on this.

I'm not saying India knows best, but something has to give here now. We've been giving them **** loads of money for years and being promised this and that and really we haven't gotten anywhere close to what we were promised. So now what? Do we keep throwing money at them hoping an praying one day they will come around cause that trust me is not happening.

Plus you can't just attach them, India knows this as Pakistan is not Palestine..its got a pretty big Army, and well Nukes.

So what do we do now? Is threatning them even more just going to fall on deaf ears as its done in the past?

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Is this a real question?

Kashmir.

What about Kashmir..Should we just bend over and say Ok..its yours..take it. We've already given a 1/3rd of it tot hem, should be just say take the rest? That's not going to happen..maybe the US should just give parts of its territory back to England, or France or Mexico? And because of Kashmir, we should just accept terrorists under the guise of Freedom Fighters?

Pakistan's time is coming and its going to be soon...The all Osama hiding in Pakistan was the first blow and trust me, we all knew in India exactly what was going on we just didn't expect it 100 yeards from their West Point.

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India has been saying this for YEARS. They knew Pakistan and the ISI were shady, they knew they were behind the Mumbai attacks in 2008. They are not a country to be trusted, and it's about time we take care of em.

The Mumbai attacks are what finally sent me over the edge. As an Indian, there was always tension about Pakistan but when my cousin and his wife were murdered at the Oberoi, that was it.

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The Mumbai attacks are what finally sent me over the edge. As an Indian, there was always tension about Pakistan but when my cousin and his wife were murdered at the Oberoi, that was it.

And Pakistan sat back and denied everything. It was obvious they funded the group that was behind the attacks, and provided them with the weapons used. It's about time that the US realizes that India is a TRUE ally and Pakistan is as fake as fake can be.

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The entire Asian subcontinent is ****ed, truthfully. No argument that Pakistan is messed up but let's not advocate "taking care of" them.

It's important to note that our policymakers are not naive, either. We know what they are. We use them anyway. You guys haven't uncovered anything.

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I'm not defending Pakistan or the ISI or terrorists. So don't bother trying to make it sound like I am.

All I'm saying is that there has been a 75 year conflict over a large and beautiful piece of territory where 80 percent of the people were Muslim at the time of the partition and clearly wanted to be a part of Pakistan, but Mountbatten convinced the Hindu Maharaji to cede it to India instead, and India promised to hold a plebicite but never followed through on that promise, and so on. You can't convince me that this 75 year long conflict has not played a part in the gradual radicalization of the ghettos of Karachi. It would be like an Israeli trying to tell me that the Palestinians were the only cause for the conflict there.

If you are making the discussion into a simplistic "either-or" proposition, of course I will agree that the ISI is the worst player in this whole mess, and in direct comparison, India is much more trustworthy than Pakistan. But I'm not absolving India for its part in creating the conditions in which this all developed over the years.

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Indian territory that India has been defending against terrorist groups like Lashkar-e-taiba?

Yeah, I'm not getting it. To me, it seems like what happened is that Kashmir was 'religously' more Hindu initially anyway (was my understanding), and was NOT part of disputed land when Pakistan was formed, they decided to fight for it anyway and now...India is supposed to??? It's the same old playbook, no different than Israel, really.

EDIT: Mistaken on religious populations, I'll take Predicto's word on it at this time.

Question Predicto---what was the cause of radicalized Sudanese government when it went around murdering and enslaving in the south (then in Darfur?) I always hear this "XYZ was radicalized by this issue" and no doubt it happens but can someone tell me when people are responsible for their OWN bad interpretations?

This is like someone being a jerkoff in line, you say, "hey, could you not cut in front and also be loud like that?" --the douchebag gets 'radicalized' and throws punches and then goes and gets his family to come also mess with you and yours. Is the solution surrender? Are you "wrong" for your part?

And I'd say the US and the world is more responsible for Palestinians than Israel...at what point do we look at Lebanon and remember what it USED to be and start blaming..the Druze? lol the moderate Sunnis who used to rule the roost?

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This is probably yet another one of Larry's overly simplistic, idealistic, fantasies, but . . .

I'm wondering how things would work if we were to go to them and say "You want our aid? Hand over the nukes. All of them. And the program."

Ordinarily, I would consider that to be an absolutely idiotic position to take. But I wonder if, in this case, it might work.

Bear in mind that the folks in "control" over there, they don't want to lose power, either. (Because they know that will happen to their Phillys if they lose power.) So, from the people who would be actually making the decision, it wouldn't be a choice between "nukes or no nukes", it would be a choice of "no nukes, or I die and somebody else has nukes".

Would it work? And/or would it be worth rolling those dice?

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And Pakistan sat back and denied everything. It was obvious they funded the group that was behind the attacks, and provided them with the weapons used. It's about time that the US realizes that India is a TRUE ally and Pakistan is as fake as fake can be.

I like India, but they are hardly a "true ally" of the US. They were the founders of the non-aligned movement, they favored the Soviets over the US in the Cold War, and they go their own way on foreign policy. Nothing wrong with that - they are a power in their own right. The US and India have gotten closer in recent years, but mostly because both have common problems with Muslim extremism, not because we are "allies."

I guess I'm just nitpicking a little.

---------- Post added September-22nd-2011 at 11:32 AM ----------

This is probably yet another one of Larry's overly simplistic, idealistic, fantasies, but . . .

I'm wondering how things would work if we were to go to them and say "You want our aid? Hand over the nukes. All of them. And the program."

Ordinarily, I would consider that to be an absolutely idiotic position to take. But I wonder if, in this case, it might work.

Bear in mind that the folks in "control" over there, they don't want to lose power, either. (Because they know that will happen to their Phillys if they lose power.) So, from the people who would be actually making the decision, it wouldn't be a choice between "nukes or no nukes", it would be a choice of "no nukes, or I die and somebody else has nukes".

Would it work? And/or would it be worth rolling those dice?

Wouldn't work. Pakistan would keep its nukes and turn to China for support. Pakistan is terrified that India will invade them (and they know that if it happened, Pakistan would get its ass kicked and only the nukes can prevent it).

India has its own long-running problems with China. The last thing they need is greater Chinese influence to the west of them as well.

---------- Post added September-22nd-2011 at 11:36 AM ----------

Yeah, I'm not getting it. To me, it seems like what happened is that Kashmir was 'religously' more Hindu initially anyway (was my understanding), and was NOT part of disputed land when Pakistan was formed, they decided to fight for it anyway and now...India is supposed to??? It's the same old playbook, no different than Israel, really.

EDIT: Mistaken on religious populations, I'll take Predicto's word on it at this time.

Question Predicto---what was the cause of radicalized Sudanese government when it went around murdering and enslaving in the south (then in Darfur?) I always hear this "XYZ was radicalized by this issue" and no doubt it happens but can someone tell me when people are responsible for their OWN bad interpretations?

This is like someone being a jerkoff in line, you say, "hey, could you not cut in front and also be loud like that?" --the douchebag gets 'radicalized' and throws punches and then goes and gets his family to come also mess with you and yours. Is the solution surrender? Are you "wrong" for your part?

And I'd say the US and the world is more responsible for Palestinians than Israel...at what point do we look at Lebanon and remember what it USED to be and start blaming..the Druze? lol the moderate Sunnis who used to rule the roost?

As Koala said, there are no easy answers, and everyone involved thinks that they are the REAL victims.

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I'm not defending Pakistan or the ISI or terrorists. So don't bother trying to make it sound like I am.

All I'm saying is that there has been a 75 year conflict over a large and beautiful piece of territory where 80 percent of the people were Muslim at the time of the partition and clearly wanted to be a part of Pakistan, but Mountbatten convinced the Hindu Maharaji to cede it to India instead, and India promised to hold a plebicite but never followed through on that promise, and so on. You can't convince me that this 75 year long conflict has not played a part in the gradual radicalization of the ghettos of Karachi. It would be like an Israeli trying to tell me that the Palestinians were the only cause for the conflict there.

If you are making the discussion into a simplistic "either-or" proposition, of course I will agree that the ISI is the worst player in this whole mess, and in direct comparison, India is much more trustworthy than Pakistan. But I'm not absolving India for its part in creating the conditions in which this all developed over the years.

Your initial claim was that India has played a "large" role in the radicalization of Pakistan, I don't believe this to be true. The Kashmir conflict is just one of a plethora of reasons why Pakistan is still a struggling country. They've been playing with fire by harboring terrorist groups for decades and now it's coming back to bite them in the rear end. Pakistan should also look inwards at its broken education system while in the same independent time span, India has been working towards developing a highly advanced medical and engineering foundation.

Imagine if our neighboring countries in the U.S. had Al-Qaeda cells that were constantly pumping in terrorists with almost daily car bombings and other suicide attacks. The entire Kashmir issue has turned into a gigantic pissing match between both countries, but the way Pakistan went about handling it was there own decision, independent of anything India forced them to do. They couldn't do it with military, so they chose to harbor terror groups. Now the same terror groups are causing them equal amounts of problems. But the decision to side with radical fundametalists instead of going with the philosophy of Jinna is what has ultimately led to them being where they are today.

EDIT: although I will say that India is no saint itself. Stupidity like the demolition of the Babri masjid that was carried out by BJP (Indian conservative) party leaders is an embarrassment to the secular foundation India was built upon. The rapidly forming Hindu nationalist movement is quite dangerous IMO.

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As Koala said, there are no easy answers, and everyone involved thinks that they are the REAL victims.

I don't know Predicto, if you want Kashmir, then man up and go to war. Funding or encouraging people to blow up civilians, hotels, markets, etc is a really ____ way to do it. But it's how the commies, left-anarchists and Muslims do things. The one weird exception (in terms of suicide bombing) were the Tamils and I can't really explain that one...At some point, people DO what they prefer/choose to do, it's not just some 'outgrowth' of what's happening. I mean, are Tibetans blowing up schoolchildren in China?

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The Mumbai attacks are what finally sent me over the edge. As an Indian, there was always tension about Pakistan but when my cousin and his wife were murdered at the Oberoi, that was it.

Are you serious? I'm so sorry to hear that, my mother was at the Taj and left 4 hours before everything went down. Plus I worked as an Intern at 7 World Trade Center in the summer of 2001 and luckily JMU where I went to school started a little early that year so I left NYC on September 7,2001 to go back to school.

You see when stuff like this hits close to home, most people on this board have no clue what you've gone through and what I still go through..I still have nightmares that I was there when 9/11 happened or my mom was stuck in the hotel.

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I don't know Predicto, if you want Kashmir, then man up and go to war. Funding or encouraging people to blow up civilians, hotels, markets, etc is a really ____ way to do it. But it's how the commies, left-anarchists and Muslims do things. The one weird exception (in terms of suicide bombing) were the Tamils and I can't really explain that one...At some point, people DO what they prefer/choose to do, it's not just some 'outgrowth' of what's happening. I mean, are Tibetans blowing up schoolchildren in China?

Actually suicide campaigns tend to have much less to do with religion or ideology than with occupation of a territory.

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