moondog Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Definetly don't agree with Cooley as the number 1. Obvious reasons: he's coming off an injury, has not played one snap, He's not in GAME shape and Davis and Paulson are. they have taken the majority of the snaps and are in good game shape. He should earn it back from those guys who have particpated in preseason. I see Torain is number 3 on the depth chart...... I see what you're saying here. While Cooley has definitely earned his stripes much more than Torain (he's are longest tenured player along with Sellers, a Pro-Bowler, and has never been anything but a dedicated and hard worker since he got here), typically when a starter is injured and hasn't see a single snap like Chris, you list the other guys above him with an asterisk next to his name basically saying he's #3 because he's injured. I love Cooley but quite frankly I don't see the point in rushing him back from a lingering knee issue when we have an outstanding pass catcher in Davis and Paulsen is our best blocking tight end. I truly see the most prudent decision as being to shut Chris down until he's completely healthy for a couple reasons: (1) If you rush back with a relatively serious injury/lingering issue, it is more likely to continue to be a serious problem and it becomes a distraction for the position group because he may not be able to put in the practice time but then he's getting the reps in the game. Again, Cooley has earned his respect from this organization, but Davis is a potential star as well and has clearly put in the work in practice and the offseason to deserve a chance since Cooley hasn't been able to practice. (2) Fred Davis is a relatively proven stud pass-catching tight end. He has put in the work this offseason and has also earned the right for playing time. In no way am I comparing attitudes or personalities, but Cooley starting or getting the majority of the reps against the Giants would be similar to what Portis did for a couple years and it was a major locker room issue. Yes, he gave it his all on Sunday like Cooley would, but it didn't sit too well with a lot of guys because he wasn't practicing. Right now, regardless of why, Davis has put in the work in practice and Cooley has not. Davis is in game shape and ready to go - at this point he should be the starter until Cooley is ready and able to fully practice for a week or so. Then it becomes a coach's decision who is the starter when both are healthy and practicing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
posse87 Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 I love it....I drafted Helu around the 14th round in my fantasy draft. I think torain went around the 8th or ninth! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLongshot Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Not sure why people are getting bent out of shape about Hankerson, unless people's expectations for the kid were too high. I remember when he was drafted people were automatically penciling him in as a starter. I never thought that because I know that there is an adjustment for all rookie WRs, and there are more which need time to adjust than those who can have an instant impact. There wasn't any sign from preseason that either Hankerson or Paul should be anything but on the bottom rung of the WR depth chart at this time. That isn't to say that they are going to stay there, but they have a lot to learn about the league. As for Cooley, I think people forget that we run a lot of two TE sets, so Davis will still get a lot of reps. Also, Cooley does know the offense. As a veteran, he should be able to function out there. The timing may be off with the QB for a bit, but he isn't going to get that back without playing time. As to how this differs from Portis, I think some were resentful of the coaching staff holding him out during the week. I don't think that is going to happen with Cooley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadySkinsFan Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 At least we have a decent depth chart this year, unlike several years past. I'm encouraged! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THEREALTOR1 Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Definetly don't agree with Cooley as the number 1. Obvious reasons: he's coming off an injury, has not played one snap, He's not in GAME shape and Davis and Paulson are. they have taken the majority of the snaps and are in good game shape. He should earn it back from those guys who have particpated in preseason. I see Torain is number 3 on the depth chart...... I see what you're saying here. While Cooley has definitely earned his stripes much more than Torain (he's are longest tenured player along with Sellers, a Pro-Bowler, and has never been anything but a dedicated and hard worker since he got here), typically when a starter is injured and hasn't see a single snap like Chris, you list the other guys above him with an asterisk next to his name basically saying he's #3 because he's injured. I love Cooley but quite frankly I don't see the point in rushing him back from a lingering knee issue when we have an outstanding pass catcher in Davis and Paulsen is our best blocking tight end. . I presume both you guys feel the same way about Landry and feel that Reed should be starting at SS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moondog Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 As for Cooley, I think people forget that we run a lot of two TE sets, so Davis will still get a lot of reps. Also, Cooley does know the offense. As a veteran, he should be able to function out there. The timing may be off with the QB for a bit, but he isn't going to get that back without playing time. As to how this differs from Portis, I think some were resentful of the coaching staff holding him out during the week. I don't think that is going to happen with Cooley. Like I said, Cooley is definitely not the same situation, just something I tried to offer up for comparison. Like you said, however, the timing may be off for a bit with the quarterback. So why not work Cooley in as the 2nd TE behind Davis? Like you said, we run plenty of 2 TE sets, so he would still be seeing playing time but not as much so that it rests his knees. He can get the playing time to work out the kinks without over doing it. I don't know, I'm just not comfortable with rushing a guy back from injury or more specifically putting a guy out there who hasn't practiced in a month when we have a qualified starter behind him who has put in the work in practice, preseason and in the offseason. Even Grossman said Davis knows exactly what he's supposed to do out there in this offense. If we had scrubs for backups, I'd be more worried. I know Cooley is a worker and is dying to get back on the field with his teammates, but I think it makes the most sense for him to rest and for Davis to start in this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 wonder if hankerson will even be active for game days? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSO Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 I'm not. I'm looking at it as it is. He's 7th string. (4th for his specific position). That's not good. He has time to improve, sure, and I believe he will. But it's not a promising start. So, basically, let's not read too much into it, lol. On a side note, man, you gotta love our WR corps right now. I think Moss/Gaffney/Armstrong/Austin are a good-to-great tandem (both Armstrong and Austin still have upside, so yes, they can be great). Everyone decided to not give two ****s about Armstrong this preseason, poor guy, but all he's done is look improved and effective every game. I won't hesitate to say this is the best WR corps we've had in, I don't know, over a decade? We've had some great paper ones (Moss/Randle El/Lloyd) that could've been amazing, but never materialized. I think, with this one, you've got actual productive guys who will work hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1972FAN Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 I presume both you guys feel the same way about Landry and feel that Reed should be starting at SS? Don't presume for me, Totally different situation. Really surprised as a Redskin fan you compare the two? Number one Fred Davis is more than capable to run as the first line TE. He faster and stronger than Cooley like it or not, Reed does not come close to Landry. Landry has not practice and has been on the PUP list till recently but if he is not ready he shouldn't play as he stated himself. The Coach will play the best available which apparently is your beloved (sarcasm) Reed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THEREALTOR1 Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Don't presume for me, Totally different situation. Really surprised as a Redskin fan you compare the two? Number one Fred Davis is more than capable to run as the first line TE. He faster and stronger than Cooley like it or not, Reed does not come close to Landry. Landry has not practice and has been on the PUP list till recently but if he is not ready he shouldn't play as he stated himself. The Coach will play the best available which apparently is your beloved (sarcasm) Reed. I don't know whats funnier, the fact that you went straight for my fancard, or that you assumed i'm in love with #37 over #30. Maybe you should do some post history research before trying to make either one of those statements, because they both make you look foolish. The reason I make the presumption is because like some on here you were quick to point out your unhappines with the 47/86 situation while glossing over the exact same scenario going on between 30/37, and then try and justify it with some bull**** excuse. I don't have time to get into the whole 47/86 debate again this morning, I already went through that yesterday morning in the "trade cooley" thread. As far as 30/37 go, if you truly believe that a 100% healthy #37 in the SS position is more of a liability on the field against the giants, then a not healthy, not having played/barely practiced all preseason #30, then our conversation probably ends here with an agreement to disagree, because there's no way in hell i'm buying that. If we we're talking about the FS position, i'd agree with you. If we're talking about #30 not being 100% healthy but having played/practiced, then i'd agree with you. But I don't agree with you on the present situation, not as it stands now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theboomking Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Do we have a defensive depth chart update yet? I'd like to see how the outside linebackers shake out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyclarkforhall Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 I love it....I drafted Helu around the 14th round in my fantasy draft. I think torain went around the 8th or ninth! While the depth chart says 3rd string, gameday will prove otherwise. I am surprised that Shanny was inconsistent with Cooley as #1 vs Davis since he missed as much time as Torain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.T.real,lights,out Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Didn't expect to see Torrain as 3rd string back. I have a feeling tho him and Hightower will be sharing a lot of carries this year. Which IMO is a very good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moondog Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 I presume both you guys feel the same way about Landry and feel that Reed should be starting at SS? You make a good point, but if you read my earlier quote, I mentioned I would feel differently if we had lesser player(s) filling in behind Cooley. If our depth was Paulsen and someone else, I would agree it makes much more sense to see if Chris can go. But you have a guy in Fred Davis who has the potential to be a star in his own right. He came in and in a little more than half a season put up as many TD's (6) as Chris has in three years with a similar ypc. He caught the same number of TD's last year as Chris with about 1/4 the number of catches. This is NOT a trade Cooley argument or anything of the sort. My point is that Davis is arguably the better pass catcher while Cooley is the better blocker - the dropoff is minimal if at all if you feel like the gain/loss may offset each other. I love Reed Doughty - he's the type of worker and player you want (I wish he was more physically gifted with the same attitude) but he's just not that great of an athlete compared to others at his position. The dropoff from Landry, who is a star and when healthy last year was easily our best player, to Reed is substantial and that to me makes a difference when considering how you handle the situation. The team can afford to rest Cooley and play Davis much more so than it can to rest Landry and play Doughty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c4man5282 Posted September 6, 2011 Author Share Posted September 6, 2011 Didn't expect to see Torrain as 3rd string back. I have a feeling tho him and Hightower will be sharing a lot of carries this year. Which IMO is a very good thing. He will be a great short down/goal line back. Plus when was the last time we had a backfield that all 3 RB's could be starters in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.T.real,lights,out Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 He will be a great short down/goal line back. Plus when was the last time we had a backfield that all 3 RB's could be starters in the NFL. Yea, plus keep Torrain from getting injured. Hopefully half the amount of carries will equal twice the amount of games played?? Does that math work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlayAction Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 The team can afford to rest Cooley and play Davis much more so than it can to rest Landry and play Doughty. Agreed if we are talking about Landry having a boo-boo. But, with his achilles tendon and hamstring, Skins could easily wind up losing him for a good part of the season if he's rushed back too soon. I expect to see Doughty at SS against the Giants and I'm not worried about it. Skins D coaches may need to tweak things a bit to make sure he's not exposed too much with FS duties. The great thing about having Landry on the field is that opponents don't always know which safety will be mostly playing short/deep or run defense. But, Skins will be okay without him for a few games if really necessary to have him playing for the entire season. Note: he's not in game shape which is the main reason he pulled his hammy so soon after trying to practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitman21ST Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Yea, plus keep Torrain from getting injured. Hopefully half the amount of carries will equal twice the amount of games played?? Does that math work? Only in the NFL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c4man5282 Posted September 6, 2011 Author Share Posted September 6, 2011 Yea, plus keep Torrain from getting injured. Hopefully half the amount of carries will equal twice the amount of games played?? Does that math work? That's kinda what I was thinking too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 The Redskins are not settled at WR. Gaffney, Stallworth, Armstrong are all signed to short term deals. That gives guys like Austin, Hankerson, Paul and Co. time to move up the depth chart and become contributors here. Only Santana Moss has received any real bonus money from the club as firm commitment of his ability to contribute in 2011. Everyone else is on probation. Remember 2009 when Malcolm Kelly 'won' the #2 job and went on to be the least productive #2 receiver in the NFL that year? That won't happen in 2011 because Shanahan has options in case Gaffney, Armstrong don't perform. That's the purpose of having depth, something that the Redskins never seemed to worry about in previous seasons under Vinny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justice98 Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 wonder if hankerson will even be active for game days? Probably shouldn't be. Really, he probably didn't even earn being on the roster, let alone active on game days. Maybe as the season progresses and he starts improving in practice he might get a shot. But I think those other guys are rightfully in front of him at this stage. ---------- Post added September-6th-2011 at 09:20 AM ---------- Didn't expect to see Torrain as 3rd string back. I have a feeling tho him and Hightower will be sharing a lot of carries this year. Which IMO is a very good thing. I think Torain's gonna wind up being the odd man out. I think Helu's game breaking ability was the X-factor. Between Hightower and Helu, I would think there probably won't be many carries to go around for the third guy. And frankly, I don't think the lack of carries is gonna do much for Torain's durability. He's just as likely to get hurt in practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLongshot Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Remember 2009 when Malcolm Kelly 'won' the #2 job and went on to be the least productive #2 receiver in the NFL that year? That won't happen in 2011 because Shanahan has options in case Gaffney, Armstrong don't perform. Not the best example, because he was replaced by Devin Thomas halfway through the year. You'd have a better argument with Brandon Lloyd in 2006. In any case, all the WRs we have are no guarantee that we will have a productive passing game. We have struggled for years in finding good receivers, and given all the receivers we have drafted who ended up not doing much, I'm not expecting a whole lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c4man5282 Posted September 6, 2011 Author Share Posted September 6, 2011 Blog write up with the D depth. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/post/checking-out-the-redskins-week-1-depth-chart/2011/09/06/gIQANzwg6J_blog.html?wprss=football-insider click on link above for rest of blog... On defense, it’s Adam Carriker at left end, along with NT Barry Cofield, RDE Stephen Bowen, LOLB Ryan Kerrigan, ILB London Fletcher, ILB Rocky McIntosh, ROLB Brian Orakpo, LCB DeAngelo Hall, RCB Josh Wilson, SS LaRon Landry and FS Oshiomogho Atogwe. Lorenzo Alexander will relieve Kerrigan, and Rob Jackson will spell Orakpo, although Orakpo will rarely be off the field. As expected, McIntosh beat out Perry Riley for that inside linebacker spot. The hope entering camp was that Riley could get the job done, but coaches soon saw that without OTAs and minicamps, he still had a way to go in his education process. Keyaron Fox is Fletcher’s backup. Up front, Kedric Golston will back up Carriker at left end a year after starting 13 games at right end. Darrion Scott is listed as Bowen’s backup and rookie Chris Neild will spell Cofield. Kevin Barnes is listed as DeAngelo Hall’s backup, but likely will be on the field with the starters in nickel packages. Byron Westbrook is Wilson’s backup. Landry is listed as the starting strong safety, but it wouldn’t be a surprise to see Reed Doughty open Sunday’s game at the position, because Landry’s hamstring still isn’t 100 percent. Rookie DeJon Gomes split time between strong and free safety this preseason, but is Atogwe’s backup on the depth chart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.T.real,lights,out Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Man i really hope LL is good to go. I do not want to see Reed on the field for us anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cober Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 I honestly dont think LL is much better then Reed in coverage. He is better close to the line due to his natural speed advantage. But in coverage he was found wanting when he was our FS. LL wont be in game shape expect to see Reed a fair amount at SS. Which is a spot he is a decent player. Reed at FS is a worry but i have no issues with him being on the field as a SS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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