The continued O-line problems that blight the Washington Redskins.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

This thread was born out of an interesting debate today on here as the final roster cuts were being made, and whilst I may be preempting things with trades and pick-up's (hopefully) still to be made before the Giants opener; with all the pre-season focus being on the QB battle; let's take a look before next week's announcement at what Beck or Grossman will have protecting them. The big ugly's up front.

Is the 2011 offensive line of the Washington Redskins that much better than the 2010 version that finished 28th overall in line play; giving up the 28th most sacks at 46; and the joint most QB hits with Jacksonville at 110? I aren't so sure personally we're going to see that great a difference when the real stuff starts. The front five are improved, no question. But it's hardly a top end group, with the main worries still being on the interior, the one area that has totally changed.

Last season, we opened against Dallas with a front five consisting of:

LT. Williams. (R.).

LG. Dockery.

C. Rabach.

RG. Hicks.

RT. Brown.

With a further 3 linemen on the roster. (Lichtensteiger, Heyer, Montgomery.).

As we currently stand, we'll open against NY with a front 5 of:

LT. Williams.

LG. Lichtensteiger.

C. Montgomery.

RG. Chester.

RT. Brown.

2 of the 5 starters (the tackles) from a year ago remaining, with two of the backup's (Lichtensteiger and Montgomery) now starting. Continuity, but not of any great quality. The 3 backup's this time round are Cook, Locklear and Smith. (R.).

Overall, not that much difference in 2011's group to 2010's. The front five is marginally stronger by virtue of Brown now fully recovered from his ACL tear, and Montgomery replacing the pitiful Rabach at center, Chester's a better fit for the ZBS, but is the average Lichtensteiger any better than the average Dockery? He improved as last year went on, but he was that woeful at the start that improvement didn't amount to much. Monty has performed well when he's played. Real well in his one outing at center in TN last year. But he's not played center regularly since HS. How will he cope with the gig full time over the rigours of a pro season? And what's behind the front five is a mixture of the total unknown in Cook and the great story UFA Smith (who with his great athletic ability may just have the potential to take over from Brown a few years down the line if we're lucky and he progresses); and Sean Locklear; who although a veteran presence, was pretty darn poor through pre-season and lucky to make the cut in many observers eyes.

8 kept, 5 cut today with Hurt and maybe Capers going onto the PS for another year. (Although the way he played pre-season that's even open to debate.).

After seeing the lines only real test this pre-season against the Ravens, I really fear for whomever the guy under center is come the serious business of the regular season. We've improved the starters from last year, but we're still an average to good group at best IMHO. I sincerely hope we can pick some modicum of talent up the next few days, or we're going to be well and truly screwed going in with this 8 over 16 long, tough weeks for me.

In the bigger picture, we SERIOUSLY need to address the O-line going forward and make it a draft priority. And not only a priority, but a HIGH draft priority to get quality starting caliber players. To be fair, the new regime has started off well on that front by taking 4 offensive linemen from 18 picks their first two drafts. That doesn't sound much, but when you consider prior to Allen and Shanahan, under this ownership we'd had 11 drafts, consisting of 69 picks since we took Jon Jansen with our 2nd pick in Snyders first draft back in '99; of which only SEVEN have been used on the O-line. And of that, only THREE have been taken in the top three rounds.

13 years on from that first draft under the current ownership, and we're still suffering mightily from the serious neglect him and his erstwhile racquetball partner did to the trenches.

We've made a start in turning that around the last two drafts, and we really need to step that up over the next few. But for now, sadly, I fear we'll see more of the same from one of our biggest problem areas over many years; the offensive line. With the overall performance of the offense following suit.

Am I the only one with serious concerns about this vital cog in the team?

Hail.

[Skinzfever2010]

This is the main reason I feel that we will only be able to edge out 4 maybe 5 wins. Our RB blocking is average - good at times but pass blocking is still poor. I expect the line to struggle at the beginning of the year but progress as the year goes on. We really need to address our line and the QB position next off-season.

[kleese]

I think you answered your own question(s). The OL is better, but not a finished product yet. Improvements were made, and we will see exactly how much of a difference it makes. Chances are we are still going to need OL to be a priority next year.

Am I concerned that the OL this year might give us some headaches? Sure. Am I concerned about the longterm prospects for our team at that position? No, not really. Shanny knows OL, he will either coach up the guys we have to an acceptable level or he will find guys that can get it done.

[GoDeep81]

Team still has a long way to go, that's for sure! Should still be fun to watch if the starters can stay healthy.. But no reason to get excited or hopes up until at least mid season-next year.. (In other words, they can't address all the issues in a year..)

[WyomingRedskin]

I think anyone has a right to be concerned or skeptical of this group. When you have an average QB who needs help around him, a weak offensive line is going to spell disaster. I think you were pretty fair in your assessment. I want to see us upgrade the line. But I think we could be successful with what we have. I think the big improvement we see this year will be in run blocking. We have got better backs, we are going to run the ball a lot more and not give up on it. Success in the running game alone will be really beneficial to whomever our QB is. Everything is intermingled together. If our defense plays well and doesn't put us in a deficit, it will also allow us to run more and pass less. We are fine at tackle. I can see using a higher round pick on a quality center. But you wouldn't use a first or second rounder typically on a zone blocking guard.

[SonnyandSam]

Did you guys not watch the offensive line at all in the first three pre season games. They looked pretty good. I'm more concerned about the lack of depth than I am the starting five at this point.

[DavidGQ]

We could bring back your Jarmon as a back up OL?

---------- Post added September-3rd-2011 at 11:15 PM ----------

Did you guys not watch the offensive line at all in the first three pre season games. They looked pretty good. I'm more concerned about the lack of depth than I am the starting five at this point.

That line did an amazing job against the Ravens.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

This is the main reason I feel that we will only be able to edge out 4 maybe 5 wins. Our RB blocking is average - good at times but pass blocking is still poor. I expect the line to struggle at the beginning of the year but progress as the year goes on. We really need to address our line and the QB position next off-season.

I have us down for 3/4, due in large part to the those two major areas you noted we need to address.

Hail.

[addicted]

I completely agree

This is the least talked about concern I have from watching all of the preseason

While most posters here were talking about the 50 yard runs or arguing which QB was better

The only constant I saw with both of them was that the opposition was regularly getting pressure on the QB

I dare anyone not thinking this is our offensives biggest weakness to go back and watch the highlights. Or just read this post I made after the Ravens game looking at Grossman's highlights

http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?352492-Why-John-Beck-is-Likely-to-Win-the-Job&p=8498442&viewfull=1#post8498442

Fact is when given time Grossman can make the throws we need him to make

But the problem like last year is how much time he has to setup for those throws

It's too late imo to expect much change here but I think like always

Our season rests on the ability for the line to protect and I have the same heartburn you do about this. It's not good

[WyomingRedskin]

This is the main reason I feel that we will only be able to edge out 4 maybe 5 wins. Our RB blocking is average - good at times but pass blocking is still poor. I expect the line to struggle at the beginning of the year but progress as the year goes on. We really need to address our line and the QB position next off-season.

So do you think our OL is the same or worse than last year? With all of the improvements we have made I simply do not understand how anyone expects us to go backwards.

[DavidGQ]

Sorry. But this line is much younger and quicker than last year.

[RemoveSnyder]

Am I the only one with serious concerns about this vital cog in the team?

Nope, I feel ya.

[kleese]

Don't forget that Shannallen HAS made OLna top priority since they arrived. Unless I'm not remembering correctly I don't think we have one OL left from the team they inherited. Their first draft pick was an OT at #4 and one of their first big moves was to trade for Brown. Heading into 2010, I'd say they made OT their top off season priority. In 2011, we addressed the interior, albeit with less intnesity. Of course they have had plenty of other areas that needed attention along the way. If you believe Kerrigen is going to be a star, you don't pass him up for an OL that you have pegged as average.

Of all the positions on the team, OL is where I most trust Shanny to get it right.

[DavidGQ]

I have us down for 3/4, due in large part to the those two major areas you noted we need to address.

Hail.

So after we win 3 -4 games, we should just take the rest of the season off? That way you and other national media can be right? Just sayin. Don't be surprised if we that many before first half.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

I completely agree

This is the least talked about concern I have from watching all of the preseason

While most posters here were talking about the 50 yard runs or arguing which QB was better

The only constant I saw with both of them was that the opposition was regularly getting pressure on the QB

I dare anyone not thinking this is our offensives biggest weakness to go back and watch the highlights. Or just read this post I made after the Ravens game looking at Grossman's highlights

http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?352492-Why-John-Beck-is-Likely-to-Win-the-Job&p=8498442&viewfull=1#post8498442

Fact is when given time Grossman can make the throws we need him to make

But the problem like last year is how much time he has to setup for those throws

It's too late imo to expect much change here but I think like always

Our season rests on the ability for the line to protect and I have the same heartburn you do about this. It's not good

Another reason why I wouldn't be surprised to see Beck named the starter come Monday/ Tuesday of this week. Grossman won the on-field contest no question; but with the line still being pushed around so much in pass pro. this pre-season Becks better athleticism and decision making under pressure may just swing it in his favour.

Hail.

[kleese]

I have us down for 3/4, due in large part to the those two major areas you noted we need to address.

Hail.

Your logic makes no sense to me. 3-4 wins means we'd e significantly worse than last year even though by your own admission we improved the OL at least marginally. I suppose if you think Beckman is a major drop off from McNabb that would explain your prediction, but in that case I'd say you are looney for thinking that. Throw in the fact that our schedule is softer this year and I just don't get where you are coming from. To me, the pessimistic view of this season would be 5/6 wins. The wildly optimistic would be 9/10 wins with 7/8 being the most realistic/most likely. To be thinking 3/4 or 11+ seems very very crazy to me.

[DavidGQ]

Your logic makes no sense to me. 3-4 wins means we'd e significantly worse than last year even though by your own admission we improved the OL at least marginally. I suppose if you think Beckman is a major drop off from McNabb that would explain your prediction, but in that case I'd say you are looney for thinking that. Throw in the fact that our schedule is softer this year and I just don't get where you are coming from. To me, the pessimistic view of this season would be 5/6 wins. The wildly optimistic would be 9/10 wins with 7/8 being the most realistic/most likely. To be thinking 3/4 or 11+ seems very very crazy to me.

He said we r 3 - 4 because we traded Jarmon to Denver and he will have many monster years over there

[dfbovey]

With an improved defense and improved running game, I don't see how this team will be a 3-4 win team. I think they'll be in the 6-8 win range realistically.

[braindx]

I think we draft a guard next year.

I don't like our current line situation in the interior, but they have looked good to decent so far (except the Tampa game) so we'll see how it plays out.

[MusicCitySkin]

The ability of this line to pass protect is going to be frustrating to watch, particularly on the left side. Trent hasn't shown anything to prove he's improved in pass blocking. I'm in the camp that's for putting Brown on the left side until Trent can get a grasp on it. Lichtensteiger has improved, but he's more suited for run blocking. Monty is a vast improvement over Rabach simply for the fact that he doesn't step on his QB's foot. Chester should be better than Hicks, who was released today. If that isn't an indication of improvement, I don't know what is.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Your logic makes no sense to me. 3-4 wins means we'd e significantly worse than last year even though by your own admission we improved the OL at least marginally. I suppose if you think Beckman is a major drop off from McNabb that would explain your prediction, but in that case I'd say you are looney for thinking that. Throw in the fact that our schedule is softer this year and I just don't get where you are coming from. To me, the pessimistic view of this season would be 5/6 wins. The wildly optimistic would be 9/10 wins with 7/8 being the most realistic/most likely. To be thinking 3/4 or 11+ seems very very crazy to me.

This is probably best served for another thread, but I did start it so I'll answer.

When your a team coming off a 6-10 season, with only 6 winning season's in the last 19 since the last Lombardi, NO game on the schedule can be considered 'soft.' Throw in we're a team in transition, with a multitude of new faces, many young and relatively to totally inexperienced; with a major question mark over whomever is the QB to lead them; and I honestly don't see much of anything results wise. I think they'll be a lot to take from this season in terms of the development of the young guys, and the forming of a team; but I don't see that transitioning into many wins. They'll play hard in all the games, but I envisage them falling short 9 times out of 10.

But this year isn't about results, It's about continuing to build for the future.

Hail.

[whatmeworry]

Sorry. But this line is much younger and quicker than last year.

I agree and we got rid of Rabach who truly had become an embarrassment. Hopefully Monty will be able to hold his own and negate the pressure up the middle which was a major source of our problems last year. Obviously these aren't the Hogs Reincarnate but they should be respectable.

[StillUnknown]

If the starters hold up, I think we'll be fine. Unfortunately, there's only a slim chance that happens. The players behind our starters leave alot to be desired as presently constructed.

[Boss_Hogg]

Of the Redskins' three backup offensive linemen, eight-year veteran Sean Locklear is the only one with NFL experience.

This is downright scary. However I have faith that Bruce and Mike could make some moves and bring in some more depth before the season commences. If not, then we will have 2009 all over again.

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

Only thing that scares me is depth; I think the pass blocking will be average, and the run blocking will range from good to VERY good (as in TH geting 125-175 yards on the ground on 6-7 ypc)