Penalties against our defense and penalties not being called for our defense

[THEREALTOR1]

:applause: The team has to take this one on the chin and correct this before 9/11.

In a way this is good for them I want to see how they respond to adversity. Maybe the first two games were too easy and you think you are okay? I'm sure Shanny,Sr. will reiterate the importance of doing the little things right and focusing on your job. We'll be okay

Couldn't agree with you more Santana. This game appeared absolutely sloppy. Stupid penalties on both sides of the ball, ST still doing the same stupid mistakes they've been doing for years, and it almost appeared at times like some of the players were just going thru the motions. I hope Shanny absolutely gives them hell, and lights a fire under their ass before week 1. Could care less that we loss (although I would've loved to beaten baltimore, ugh), but the play on the field and the execution just seemed sloppy.

[Veretax]

I also saw at least one play where Cofield was being blocked up high, then stunted around the Olineman who then went low taking out his legs.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

This is when we are going to miss Bubba the most.

[Bliz]

Only on this board would people complain about penalty calls in preseason. Good gravy.

The Moss call on the drop was obvious. You may not like the rule, but it is what it is. Ultimately it was irrelevant since we scored the TD anyway.

Evans was a little closer. Would have liked to have seen a better replay. But I could see where he maybe had control and took two steps before the strip.

What we think of as holding happens on virtually every play. We get away with just as many as they do. Get used to it, or you're going to spend 16 weeks complaining about no-calls.

We had some critical penalties that were correct calls. Particularly the running into the kicker and one of the neutral zone infractions on Kerrigan. As the OP said, he's a rookie and these things happen. Good to have it in preseason so he can start thinking about it a little more.

[AsburySkinsFan]

Sloppy discipline on both sides of the ball + Refs not calling choke-holds = Same old same old.

[DC9]

Lots of missed calls, but the Redskins also shot themselves in the foot time and time again with the ST and defensive penalties that allowed the Ravens to sustain drives.

HTTR

I'll agree to an extent, but Lorenzo did not run into Koch on the punt, it was another Raven. That was a rediculous call.

Now, towards the end of the game, I believe it was Gibson or Scott who were pursuing Tyrod Taylor on his run to the right, and he was held like a new born baby and no flag. Either way... it's eh.

I think Harbaugh left his two's in there for the whole second half when we had our 3's and practice squad....he just wants to win because the press in Baltimore is giving him a hard time. He even got upset at a reporter last night in his presser.

[Santana_89]

Couldn't agree with you more Santana. This game appeared absolutely sloppy. Stupid penalties on both sides of the ball, ST still doing the same stupid mistakes they've been doing for years, and it almost appeared at times like some of the players were just going thru the motions. I hope Shanny absolutely gives them hell, and lights a fire under their ass before week 1. Could care less that we loss (although I would've loved to beaten baltimore, ugh), but the play on the field and the execution just seemed sloppy.

Shanny,Sr. did NOT look happy at all during his press conference as he was asked about the penalties. I bet the team is going to get a earful in meetings and pratice (rightfully so). The team was focused and disciplined vs Pittsburgh I would like to see that team again.

[rictus58]

Sloppy discipline on both sides of the ball + Refs not calling choke-holds = Same old same old.

I don't care if it's the Skins or the opposition, anytime you have the crook of your elbow in someone's neck, that's a hold.

[AsburySkinsFan]

I don't care if it's the Skins or the opposition, anytime you have the crook of your elbow in someone's neck, that's a hold.

Oh I know and 100% agree, and they did the same thing to Orakpo last year....continually with no calls, I lost count of how many times the holds were replayed with the commentators saying sheepishly...."looks like the offense got away with one there...." Rak's sack count suffered for it too....looks like we're in for more of the same this year is all I'm saying.

[rictus58]

Oh I know and 100% agree, and they did the same thing to Orakpo last year....continually with no calls, I lost count of how many times the holds were replayed with the commentators saying sheepishly...."looks like the offense got away with one there...." Rak's sack count suffered for it too....looks like we're in for more of the same this year is all I'm saying.

I've often read that if the defensive players doesn't attempt to get out of the hold, a lot of times the ref won't call it. I've also noticed that Orakpo seems to hold the tackle's arm there.

Orakpo needs to learn some moves to improve his game. Swimming outside the Tackle isn't working for him as often as it should since they just wrap their arm around hime.

Of course, none of this is an excuse. A hold is a hold and should be called.

[AsburySkinsFan]

I've often read that if the defensive players doesn't attempt to get out of the hold, a lot of times the ref won't call it. I've also noticed that Orakpo seems to hold the tackle's arm there.

Orakpo needs to learn some moves to improve his game. Swimming outside the Tackle isn't working for him as often as it should since they just wrap their arm around hime.

Of course, none of this is an excuse. A hold is a hold and should be called.

Agreed on both counts....and maybe he should "fake" a takedown or two. jus sayin'

[Woofer]

I disagree. Just because the defender's hand was close to the ball doesn't mean Santana didn't have complete control. Santana only lost control after it was wrestled free after he went down. He didn't begin to lose possession at all until he had touched the ground and it was a direct result of the defender fighting for it after Santana got three feet down before falling.

Santana never had "complete" control. When he hit the ground, the ball hit the ground also and popped out. The call was correct - incomplete pass.

[rictus58]

Agreed on both counts....and maybe he should "fake" a takedown or two. jus sayin'

I wouldn't fault him if he did. In fact, I'd cheer him on until the refs start calling it. There were more than a few against the Ravens OL last night.

Santana never had "complete" control. When he hit the ground, the ball hit the ground also and popped out. The call was correct - incomplete pass.

The call was correct. On the replay from the back right of Santana, you could clearly see the ball was not secured, and the DB had a hand in there. Moss never had complete control.

[orlskinsfan]

everyone take a step back and breath...its only preaseason..

we played a good first half 1 vs 1's and came out on top 21-14, this is against one of the supposed best defenses in the league. We also held their offense down if you take away some of the penalties that kept drives alive and hail mary pass to evans which was actually covered pretty good by hall, great pass, great catch...it happens.

They played their starters into the third quarter to tie the game, we played most players who are fighting for jobs or will be cut next week and still only lost by 3 points...if it werent for the horrible interception thrown by our 3rd string qb and awful punt coverage this game would have been a win.

So while the penalties are a concern when it was 1 vs 1's we came out on top, i like what i saw.

[Skins4life88]

I love how when Lee Evans bobbles the ball, it's a touchdown. When Santana Moss bobbles it, it's incomplete.

What a joke.

I was pointing that out to my GF. You win some and lose some

[jflow78]

Holding has been something they've really REALLY let go this preseason, and not just in the Skins games. Maybe they're just waiting for the regular season to really come down on it.

I hope so, otherwise it's going to be ridiculous all season long. I really hate refs.

[Hazel-Ra]

I haven't watched a replay yet, but the roughing the kicker penalty just looked like bad luck. The ground was wet and our guy appeared to just slide into him.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Santana took three steps before going down. So by that logic, his should also have been a TD. As soon as Santana gets both feet down...no?

No, and it doesn't matter how many steps you take if you're going to the ground.

[WeBB15]

The calls were correct on the Evans and Moss plays... But the missed holding calls have always plagued refs for decades.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

Unfortunately Kerrigan will struggle with that neutral zone infraction penalty for awhile. He's still adapting to the 2 point stance, it isn't natural to him. Hopefully he can rectify it as the season progresses. But I'm guessing offenses will try and take advantage of that in the regular season.

[BackToGlory]

Am I the only one who constantly saw multiple holds on Kerrigan and other defensive players. There were a few times I had even seen Kerrigan's jersey above his neck and almost over his head. How on earth could this not be called?

Of course the biggest issue was 14 points were scored due to penalties leading to longer drives by the Ravens. Kerrigan was called for two neutral zone infractions but he's a rookie and rather have it now versus the regular season but defensive holding by Doughty on third down was just sad to see.

This is why I don't like Reed starting. He is too darn slow to keep up and has to hold not to get burned like a cheap cigar!

---------- Post added August-26th-2011 at 12:23 PM ----------

There was alot of missed calls, however the silver lining is STILL our starters BEAT thier starters in just about every facet. It's pretty bad when your starters have to go against our second and third string scrubs to make a touchdown. So all in all we won the game even though the score board doesn't show that. The fact is this year will again be tough because Orakpo will be held and there will be no calls, that is when Orakpo needs to slam a ref, I know suspension and fine, so maybe HB Blades then can do it for him, God knows he is awful! Also Fox should have had Rice on his TD run he over pursued. Fletcher would have NOT missed that tackle! HTTR!!!

[Dro89]

I disagree. Just because the defender's hand was close to the ball doesn't mean Santana didn't have complete control. Santana only lost control after it was wrestled free after he went down. He didn't begin to lose possession at all until he had touched the ground and it was a direct result of the defender fighting for it after Santana got three feet down before falling.

the ball was never in his hand firmly it was moving around the entire time.. both calls were correct.. take the B&G shades off bro.

[skinsfan242]

It appears some people have very thick B&G glasses on.

Moss's call WAS NOT EVEN CLOSE TO A TD. He never once had possesion.

Lee Evans TD is debatable - they should have at least looked at it. Seemed strange that the refs didn't review it even though they say they look at every TD.

I thought its funny how DHall was complaining and Shanahan just looked at him an basically said its preseason I want to see our offense in the two minute drive then they both laughed.

[@DCGoldPants]

Bro. BANG will agree with you. . Seriously though, i hear you. Danny Smith IMO is over rated. It would have been nice to bring someone else in for the job. Hopefully the FO will see the light.

I agree. Seems that Special Teams never comes up when you need it the most. That punt should have been out of bounds and not returnable at all. The punt coverage was suspect again. Danny has had some quick return guys, but that doesn't mean he's a great Special Teams coach. If he were, somebody would have hired him to be an O or D coord by now.

[GeneralStonewallTaylor]

the ball was never in his hand firmly it was moving around the entire time.. both calls were correct.. take the B&G shades off bro.

No, both calls were not correct you clown...so watch your tone bro. The same rule should apply to both plays, despite Santana ending up on the ground. Go re-watch the play in slow-motion. He was not going to the ground on his own in order to make the catch, he made the catch and was brought to the ground/tackled IN THE END ZONE. If D. Hall wasn't allowed to fight for the ball and the play ended as soon as Evans secured the ball and got both feet down, then the same logic should have been applied to the Santana catch. Are you guys serious? You really don't even know what you're looking at?

As soon as Santana's hands are on the ball and he brings it into his body, it stops moving and is secure. He is not going to the ground on his own and gets both feet down in the end zone with possession. Using the Evans TD as precedent, Santana should have been awarded a TD at that moment - end of play. He takes two steps and the defender makes contact and begins to try and tackle him as he takes his third step...after already gaining possession in the end zone. It is the EXACT SAME PLAY as the Evans TD, only D. Hall didn't try to tackle Evans in the end zone after he already had possession, he fought for the ball while running. Only AFTER Santana made the catch and AFTER the defender caused Moss to go to the ground was the ball ripped out; he wasn't going down on his own, he didn't lose the ball on his own, the ball never touched the ground, and only began to move after he started sliding on the ground and the defender dislodged it. Would you argue that it was incomplete if Santana made a wide-open catch in the end zone and a defender came out of nowhere and crushed him, took him to the ground and stripped the ball? No - because that's ridiculous - and the play is theoretically over as soon as the receiver gets possession and gets both feet down, as evidenced by the Evans TD. Well, that is exactly what happened with Santana, it just happened a little faster and in front of inconsistent referees. Going to the ground is only a factor if the player is doing so to facilitate making the catch, not as a result of a defender trying to save face after getting beat for a TD. Or would you argue that Evans' was incomplete if D. Hall brought him to the ground as the ball came out?

Again, both Evans and Moss lost possession due to the defender fighting for the ball AFTER they had initially gained possession in the end zone with both feet down. The ONLY difference is Santana was brought down by the defender and then stripped of the ball, while Evans was stripped of the ball without being brought down.