Homer: Pick one: Brandon Banks, Terrence Austin or Donte Stallworth?

[Skinsinparadise]

I think we must have the best WR depth in the league, considering how there supposedly will be a dozen teams lusting for anybody we put on the practice squad. I wonder how these future Hall of Famers lasted so long in the draft

Goof on the Skins reporter who thinks Paul won't make it through the waivers then. The dude is a 5th rounder, projected to go higher, who can return kicks and has been having a good camp. Devin Thomas was basically trashed by Shanny for having a poor work ethic and was on a team with a much weaker receiving crew then we got now which included Joey Galloway on our roster. Nonetheless, he was picked up after being released on to an active roster. And then the WR rich Giants took him because they need a special teams player. We waived Dixon and wanted to move him to our practice squad, even though our D line wasn't that hot, and he was picked up by the Eagles. That dude was an undrafted free agent. Yeah, dude I don't think its nuts to think that some team might want to pluck Niles Paul. We aren't going to know one way or another until it happens but yeah I don't get the whole idea that while we can debate Paul making our roster but its insane to think that another team might want him on theirs. Do we really have the worst WR group in the NFL?

[braindx]

Goof on the Skins reporter who thinks Paul won't make it through the waivers then. The dude is a 5th rounder, projected to go higher, who can return kicks and has been having a good camp. Devin Thomas was basically trashed by Shanny for having a poor work ethic and was on a team with a much weaker receiving crew then we got now which included Joey Galloway on our roster. Nonetheless, he was picked up after being released on to an active roster. And then the WR rich Giants took him because they need a special teams player. We waived Dixon and wanted to move him to our practice squad, even though our D line wasn't that hot, and he was picked up by the Eagles. That dude was an undrafted free agent. Yeah, dude I don't think its nuts to think that some team might want to pluck Niles Paul. We aren't going to know one way or another until it happens but yeah I don't get the whole idea that while we can debate Paul making our roster but its insane to think that another team might want him on theirs. Do we really have the worst WR group in the NFL?

Precisely why I may think we keep "7" WR.

Although the problem is at the expense of who

[PlayAction]

Banks isn't going to last long in the league as his body can't take the punishment. His value as a KR has dropped because many kicks are going to go either out the end zone or deep enough that the risk/reward doesn't justify running it out. As a punt returner he's still great but he's never going to be a backup WR that the Skins can turn to if a starter gets hurt.

Stallworth still has time to show that he's capable of beating out Austin. As of today he hasn't and Austin has the advantage of youth, i.e., 22 versus 30. If Austin shows that he's capable of being a solid backup then the Skins can count on him for a good number of years. Stallworth may only be around for 1-2 years. I think the Skins will stick with Austin barring injury.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Tea and cake or death!

Tea and cake or death!

Tea and cake or death!

Tea and cake or death!

[HigSkin]

Cooley can't go on the PUP. He has already practiced with the team at training camp. The same reason MK couldn't go on it last year.

Ah, I thought I read him and LL were on the PUP to the start of preseason. My bad.

[tibbidoe]

Tea and cake or death!

Tea and cake or death!

Tea and cake or death!

Tea and cake or death!

Cake please.

[#BgMase76#]

Wait a minute, does this mean it's a foregone conclusion that Kelly is done? I'm simply loving the fact that we have these issues. I love the direction we're headed in.

[lovemaskins]

I wonder if the Bears are having this same discussion about hester, and before any of you say he's a WR, the Bears are reducing his role to mostly special teams so he can excel in his natural fit. I'd have 2 say with Banks season last year he can or maybe already is on the level of hester at the return game. But we would think the Bears and their fans would be crazy to cut Hester, espcecially for a PRACTICE SQUAD PLAYER!!!.

[wrecker]

Ah, I thought I read him and LL were on the PUP to the start of preseason. My bad.

Landry and Moore are on the PUP.

[Skinsinparadise]

Why would another team sign Paul to the active roster, assuming we cut or PS him? (i.e. assuming the Redskins, a bottom-feeding team [especially in terms of WR development], did not deem is preseason performance compelling enough for a roster spot)

The premise is the Redskins DO have good depth at WR this year finally and that 2011 isn't 2010. These are mostly different receivers from 2010. Why would the Eagles pick Dixon from the bottom feeding Redskins? Why would the Colts want Tryon who didn't look like he was making our team? IMO the answer is good teams DO take players from bad teams, happens all the time. Better fits, some teams have more depth or less at certain positions.

The only argument I've seen so far is that somebody tweeted that Paul wouldn't last long if he got cut or PS'ed. The tweeter referenced the Giants being interested, but if they were interested (a) why didn't they draft him, and ( why do they have so many receivers in camp?

I just used the Giants as an example, been reading the NY papers where the writers are nervous about the Giants options for the 3rd receiver. But there are a whole bunch of teams in the league obviously. Yeah I'll see if I can dig it up but one of the reporters who covers the team on twitter speculated that if Paul wouldn't make it to our roster squad he would be taken. Yeah its an educated guess on his end. It seems intuitive to me. And its cool if it seems counter intuitive to you. To each their own. Actually another reporter said the same about Kelly but I can live with him moving on.

And as to why they haven't drafted him again I just used the Giants as an example not as something that I have any inside info on. But to play along, yeah only one pick per round. Just because you want a player obviously it doesn't mean you land them. There are other teams doing picks besides your team. Regardless, why would it matter if you had draft designs on a specific player to sign him off waivers? Why didn't the Giants draft Devin Thomas? the Eagles had 7 rounds to take A. Dixon and didn't but still wanted him when he was available. so I don't see how the draft point has any relevance.

Please remember, in order to "steal" Paul from our PS another team has to sign him to their active roster for several weeks. This is a late-round ROOKIE WR we are talking about. WRs are notoriously slow to develop, rookie WRs are notoriously unpolished, and this is a late-rounder at that. They have to have him on their active roster.

Yeah I think we all get that. And it happens all the time. Marko Mitchell was a 7th rounder made the team his rookie season. WRs who play special teams have an edge, you need backup players who can play teams. It's part of the reason why I don't think its far fetched that he gets claimed. the Giants didn't seem to grab Devin Thomas because they like him as a WR but liked him as a special teams guy. Paul was a good team's player in college. And no, we've not had one of the worst special teams in the league year in and year out. Not every team has a good returner.

How would you feel if the Redskins signed a rookie WR from the Bengals' practice squad to our 53 man roster? Would you feel like you got a steal? The Bengals cut the guy, he wasn't worth a roster spot on their team...but he was worth a spot on our final 53? He had 2 weeks of training camp, and he has never even been through OUR camp! He doesn't even know how to run the Bengals' routes...but he's going to quickly learn how to run our routes?

IMO its a strange way to approach this. We picked D. Hall from the Raiders scrap heap. The dude was released. I think we are fine with taking him from arguably the NFL's most dysfunctional franchise. I don't think the Steelers felt bad about taking our FA reject Ryan Clark who we didn't want to resign. The Bengals have been much more loaded over the years at WR than us -- yeah I'd be fine with it, depends on the player. Its really tough for me to buy that teams just assume that other teams who have played poorly have completely bad rosters across the board position by position and its a given that they had a bad draft.

[bhi4582]

During one of the Shanny pressers in the last few days, when asked about Banks not fully practicing, Shanny said something to the effect of 'we're following a plan to make sure he is ready to go week 1'

My reading of the tea leaves is he is a virtual lock to be the starting returner... we've all seen it and there is no arguing what he is capable of there. Since he is listed as a WR, he'd be the 6th WR, but you could list him RB, LB, LT, whatever... he's the returner.

I see the competition for the 5th WR spot as being between Paul, Austin, and Stallworth. And I guess Aldrick Robinson and the others... but those 3 on top. To me, that is a really tough call. Stallworth is obviously the best guy to help us right now, but that would mean exposing the others to every other team and no guarantee of being able to stash them on the practice squad.

Luckily there are 3 more games to see whats what.

I could not agree with you more. Banks is on the team. He's the best return man we've had since B mitch. I think he's better. I think he's one of the top 3 best punt returners in the game. Even though kickoffs have been moved back, he's still a huge asset in the punt return game. Not to mention his value as a WR performing bubble screen's or merely as a decoy.

[Brotherz]

Yea, I gotta say I'd find a way to get him the ball more outside of special teams. I know its not Madden out there but i really find it hard to believe there is no way to get this guy with the ball in his hands in the offense. Wildcat? Direct snap? Reverse? Bubble screen?

I don't get it. A few times every game I'd like to see that little dude jukein through a defense.

[LaRonDontLikeUgly]

People around here seem to really like Paul for no apparent reason.

Yes, he's big-- but there doesn't seem to be much fluidity in his hips and aside from possibly being able to light-up DBs on a crackback, I don't see the need for him.

Paul and Robinson will head to the PS and no one will take them from us.

[Botched]

Semptember 2011, in the offices of 31 NFL teams...

GM: Holy mother of god.

Owner: What?

GM: I just received word that the Redskins have placed their sixth best wide receiver on the practice squad.

Owner: You mean....?

GM: Yes. He's ours for the taking.

Owner: Gas up the jet. Let's move before it's too late.

GM: No room on our roster. We'll have to cut somebody so we can bring him in.

Owner: Cut whoever used to be our number one. It's time to win some Super Bowls.

[Skinsinparadise]

People around here seem to really like Paul for no apparent reason.

Yes, he's big-- but there doesn't seem to be much fluidity in his hips and aside from possibly being able to light-up DBs on a crackback, I don't see the need for him.

Paul and Robinson will head to the PS and no one will take them from us.

If you feel comfortable from your own scouting that this dude is a dud, that's cool. This is Murf's thread, Murf actually thinks he makes the roster, so I presume either he likes him or he thinks the coaches like him. I am curious Murf if Paul gets bumped off the roster, is its nuts to think that a team will be interested? My gut tells me yes but got not clue of course.

---------- Post added August-16th-2011 at 04:43 PM ----------

Semptember 2011, in the offices of 31 NFL teams...

GM: Holy mother of god.

Owner: What?

GM: I just received word that the Redskins have placed their sixth best wide receiver on the practice squad.

Owner: You mean....?

GM: Yes. He's ours for the taking.

Owner: Gas up the jet. Let's move before it's too late.

GM: No room on our roster. We'll have to cut somebody so we can bring him in.

Owner: Cut whoever used to be our number one. It's time to win some Super Bowls.

Yes, its true, nobody ever signs players that played for bad teams from the previous season -- if its a bad team, it ALWAYS means their roster is bad THROUGHOUT and its impossible for a team's talent to improve from the previous year. You got me. I am sure Andy Reid was laughing at the Eagles front office when they signed Dixon. A player from the Redskins are you kidding me ha, ha, ha. That Dixon dude must be terrible. The NY press was lampooning the Giants for taking the Skins reject, Devin Thomas. The Steelers with Ryan Clark on and on. And the whole league knows that Shanny doesn't find mid rounder talent on offense -- so whomever he chooses must be awful.

Murf happens to have that joke player, Paul, making our roster, am curious as to his take about his talent being laughable.

[bedlamVR]

Good talking point Murf -

I think the top 3 are as you say Gaffney, Armstrong and Moss in the slot . 5th reviver - the guy who might get a sniff of the field on occasion I think unless he does more to instill confidence is Hankerson, Banks is in as a special teamer (again if Austin or one someone else can step up they better do it soon) so this is really a battle for 4th WR - and it is the question of if you want the backup to be young or old . I am not sure on Stallworths reputation in terms of health but my heart says Austin

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

Seems like nobody realizes that the number five and six receiver won't see the field unless they play ST or because of injury. Banks will be back there for every punt and kickoff. Austin or whoever is at the bottom of the depth chart won't see the field. The obvious and only choice should be Banks due to his game changing ability and he will actiually PLAY.

:cool:

Apparently you missed this. But Austin is listed the 4th receiver on the depth chart. He was on the field playing when our starters were as well.

[Skinsinparadise]

I don't pretend to be a scout, I just noticed that some of the draft geeks were high on him before the draft, he was projected to go higher than the 5th round by many. I recall it was one of the picks lauded by many draft geeks post draft. I couple that with reading he's having a very good camp, better than Hankerson, from multiple people covering the team especially Paulson and Keim -- and with one reporter saying he needs to make the team otherwise they will lose him.

He's a big dude, who could block, with 4.45 speed, can return punts and kicks, here's Kiper's highlights http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-uyAe9CwJ4

Shanny has a history of finding good players on offense in the mid rounds. And yeah I am not the only guy saying they have good depth at WR this year. Murf has him making the team on his roster projection. I am not saying this dude is a stud, got no clue. But based on his versatility where he can play teams, has good size dimensions and speed, hype about his play in camp, draft geek buzz, etc -- coupled with one reporter thinking he would be picked up if put on waivers -- don't get why its insane to think this dude will be picked up?

The main comeback here seems to be the Redskins suck so no one will want the dude. That theory is been shut down already. Well the Skins have sucked for awhile and we've seen some of our players picked up. To say why would any team care about any player on our roster is a funny point and taps well into the anger about us sucking on this board but the facts don't back up the point that our roster is ignored for that reason. Am curious if anyone has a hard core point specific to Paul aside from the Redskins sucked last year? You didn't like him in college? He's overhyped? You've been watching him in camp, and you don't buy the media's hype, etc.

[Xero21]

Banks has already made the 53, as a returner. He's no longer a WR from a roster accounting view. He'll see the field as WR only in special circumstances, such as screens. Will also be used as a decoy, since his rare appearances will distract the defense.

Barring injuries, here's the WR roster:

Active Roster

1. Moss
   
2. Gaffney
   
3. Armstrong
   
4. Austin*
   
5. Stallworth**
   
6. Hankerson***
   

*Austin sees the field more than Stallworth due to his youth and career upside. Also serves as game-day backup to Banks.

**Veteren experience makes him an effective backup at all WR positions. Injury history risk negated by limited touches.

***Makes the 53 strictly as a developmental player and fear that he'd be picked up off waivers before ever reaching practice squad. Inactive on most game days.

Practice Squad

1. Paul*
   
2. Robinson**
   

*Has almost zero risk of being claimed by another team. He's this year's Austin.

**At risk of being an outright cut if he doesn't show something.

Couldn't have said it better myself, though I do believe Stallworth would see more regular season playing time than Austin at this point.

I'm not sure what all the love for Niles Paul is all about. Apparently he's had a good camp but there's always players who have good camps that get cut anyway. The guy's made one preseason catch thus far I believe? He is prime practice squad material, at least to start the season.

[s0crates]

I think themurf's coverage of Redskins camp is better than a lot of what WaPo, the Times, and the Examiner are printing these days.

If the choice is between Austin, Banks, and Stallworth, then I vote for Banks. Like many others, I think a special teams ace like him is well worth the roster spot, even with the rule change. Unlike many others, I can also see a speedster like Banks being used on offense for reverses, screens, and stretching defenses.

That being said, it will be hard to cut Stallworth. He looks good.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

john_keim

FYI: Brandon Banks will not play vs. the Colts because of his knee. Tried to run some routes in practice; didn't respond well.

Well that doesn't sound good. In for a few plays in the first preseason game and his knee is back to being too bad to practice. Someone that small can't take a full seasons worth of punishment.

And his knee eliminates him from the 2nd preseason game. Guess we'll see a lot more of the other returners.

[Enter Apotheosis]

Austin and Banks kept, Stallworth cut, Paul to PS. Unless Paul has a hell of string of games to close the preseason we can get away with it.

Seven wide outs and eight offensive linemen is absurd. No team in the history of football has ever kept as many receivers as offensive linemen. Try again.

8 is still too few offensive linemen.

yup.

need 10... you need another Tackle and another Center.

Keeping 7 receivers is pretty outrageous in and of itself but that kind of receiver to OL ratio isn't completely unrealistic. Just glancing at some old rosters, Shanahan has kept six wideouts and seven offensive linemen on his 53-man roster before (2004 Broncos). In fact, Shanahan actually has a bit of a habit of carrying less than 10 OL but he always has a few guys stashed on the practice squad if he needs them.

I doubt Paul would make it to the practice squad just based on camp reports. Other teams' scouts do read articles, and it's pretty clear that he's been flashing in practice.

Austin made it to the practice squad last year and he stood out at camp, too. Hell, Banks didn't get claimed off waivers or the practice squad either and he looked damn impressive as a return man when he wasn't fumbling the ball. There is just enough disincentive in signing a practice squad player that most teams are hesitant to do it unless they are extremely confident in that player (hard to be given the limited public exposure of most PS players) or desperate.

[Skinsinparadise]

Austin made it to the practice squad last year and he stood out at camp, too. Hell, Banks didn't get claimed off waivers or the practice squad either and he looked damn impressive as a return man when he wasn't fumbling the ball. There is just enough disincentive in signing a practice squad player that most teams are hesitant to do it unless they are extremely confident in that player (hard to be given the limited public exposure of most PS players) or desperate.

Austin is a small dude, what is he 170 pounds? He is a 7th rounder, agree he had a decent camp a year ago. And i like him. But, Paul was drafted higher up. Paul's size combo with speed likely puts him a peg up IMO on how teams might have looked at Austin in year 1. Banks was an undrafted free agent, who in the pre season had some nice returns but it seemed like he had questionable hands with his fumbles.

Again, you got me if a team picks up Paul but I don't agree with the whole get out of here, no one will touch the dude chorus. And i am not the only guy with this opinion. All right off of my soap box. Yeah and I'm curious when Murf catches up with the thread what he thinks, he has Paul making the roster.

[jayneal7]

Got to keep the return homerun! Banks stays

[Skinsinparadise]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/16/belichick-says-league-wants-to-eliminate-kickoffs/

Belichick explained that, for now, it will impact the decisions made when shaping a roster.

“If, instead of covering 60 kickoffs in a year you think you’re only gonna be covering 30, then is that coverage player as important, or — on the flip side of it — is the return game?” Belichick said. “If you’re going to be returning 30 instead of 60, are the guys who block on the kickoff return [as important?] If you think you’re gonna be returning more punts than kickoffs [there's a decision to weigh]. Usually you’re going to be returning more kickoffs than punts but if you think you’ll be returning more punts than kickoffs, then maybe you put more of a priority on your punt returner than your kickoff returner.”

He’s right. Kickoff returners have less value, and a kickoff specialist who can put the ball into the front row — or who can hang it high and drop it inside the five — will have greater value.