WP: In the Shanahans’ eyes, John Beck is the Washington Redskins’ starting quarterback

[Commander PK]

I still don't see why they are trying to paint this as some conspiracy.

because that is what "they" do. There is nothing really controversial going on with the Redskins right now, hasn't been in quite a while. They have to drum up something to generate a buzz, and obviously this is it.

The Redskins have been quite "boring" as of late. A very welcome change...unless making your living depends largely upon the organization being in complete chaos and disorder.

[Mahons21]

Reid exaggerated in saying "the fix is in," but the idea that it's Beck's job to lose is entirely consistent with the facts. John Beck was signed to an extension while Rex was allowed to go to free agency. It was Rex who needed to be evaluated in 2010, not Beck.

Was Rex being evaluated or was the system (when properly run) being evaluated, we don't know either for sure. However, I don't find your argument very plausible. What you're suggesting is that Rex Grossman, who has played in countless more games than John Beck, who'd already been with Kyle for almost 2 years at that point, needed to be evaluated, meaning they don't know what they have in him. While Beck on the other hand, who's played all of 4 games with one of the worst teams in the past decade, and never spent time with either coach prior to last season, is more of a known commodity.

That's just not very logical.

[ouvan59]

Was Rex being evaluated or was the system (when properly run) being evaluated, we don't know either for sure. However, I don't find your argument very plausible. What you're suggesting is that Rex Grossman, who has played in countless more games than John Beck, who'd already been with Kyle for almost 2 years at that point, needed to be evaluated, meaning they don't know what they have in him. While Beck on the other hand, who's played all of 4 games with one of the worst teams in the past decade, and never spent time with either coach prior to last season, is more of a known commodity.

That's just not very logical.

I think this is absolutely correct. Grossman was put in to show the other players on the roster that the offense will work when properly run, something that McNabb wasn't doing. And that's exactly what happened. Grossman wasn't great but the offense looked a 100% better and mentally I'm sure it was huge for the other players.

[darrelgreenie]

A couple of gripes with your argument.

1.) Clearly more evident that Beck is more talented than Grossman. In what sense? Grossman may be inconsistent but he's shown flashes of brilliance and the ability to get it done. Beck has never shown the ability to get it done, sure he might have all the tools, but the tools don't matter unless you can get the job done.

I said talent not production.

Talent and production are 2 very different things.

One is purely a measure of individual abilities.

Production is situation dependent: scheme, pass protection, skill position talent etc.

he might have all the tools

Well 'tools' are the only aspect of Beck's game I was speaking of.

2.) I know I'm going to be in the minority here, but in my opinion the more talented player doesn't always win a competition in the NFL, rather it is the more coachable/dedicated player that will win out the majority of the time.

Why would you assume that you would be in the minority?

[Mahons21]

I said talent not production.

Talent and production are 2 very different things.

One is purely a measure of individual abilities.

Production is situation dependent: scheme, pass protection, skill position talent etc.

I see what you're saying.

Why would you assume that you would be in the minority?

Have you looked around ES lately? Half of the site is a bunch of knee-jerkers who seem to think the only way to ever win a game of football is to draft the most talented QB at the first overall pick, hence the suck for Luck campaign.

That pre-cursor was meant moreso for them, then somebody such as yourself.

[Oldfan]

Mahons ~ Was Rex being evaluated or was the system (when properly run) being evaluated, we don't know either for sure.

Mike has been running virtually the same scheme for 16 years. Rex had never started a game in the scheme. I don’t have any doubt that Rex was being evaluated not the scheme.

However, I don't find your argument very plausible. What you're suggesting is that Rex Grossman, who has played in countless more games than John Beck, who'd already been with Kyle for almost 2 years at that point, needed to be evaluated, meaning they don't know what they have in him. While Beck on the other hand, who's played all of 4 games with one of the worst teams in the past decade, and never spent time with either coach prior to last season, is more of a known commodity.

That's just not very logical.

Steve Young wasn’t evaluated on his performance with the Bucs. Jake Plummer wasn’t evaluated on his performance with the Cardinals. Jay Cutler wasn't evaluated on his performance with Vanderbilt. Mike Shanahan is evaluating Grossman and Beck on what he sees of their talent. It seems obvious that he thinks Beck is more talented.

The more talented QBs aren’t always going to perform better in his scheme , but they usually will. Lacking a crystal ball, we make good decisions based on Probability. Until he sees more of Beck in his scheme that's what Mike is doing.

[Mahons21]

Mike has been running virtually the same scheme for 16 years. Rex had never started a game in the scheme. I don’t have any doubt that Rex was being evaluated not the scheme.

Well is this Mike's scheme or Kyle's scheme? While I see concepts that Mike used to use during his days in DEN, I also see a much more wide-open passing attack with multiple receivers sets, this is no the same scheme as 16 years ago.

And if it was the QB being evaluated, why wouldn't they evaluate the player they believe could be the starting QB, a position infinitely more valuable to a team then a backup QB?

Steve Young wasn’t evaluated on his performance with the Bucs. Jake Plummer wasn’t evaluated on his performance with the Cardinals. jay Cutler wasn't evaluated on his performance with Vanderbuilt. Mike Shanahan is evaluating Grossman and Beck on what he sees of their talent. It seems obvious that he thinks Beck is more talented.

Everyone of these guys was evaluated on their performance at the respective teams you listed. Maybe their production wasn't evaluated, but their skill-set certainly was. When you have lots more game footage on someone at the NFL level, you'll have a much better chance at evaluating how their skill-set transfers to the NFL in the given scheme they're playing in. Which would logically lead one to he's the more known commodity between himself and Beck.

If he felt Beck was more talented why wouldn't he have put him in down the stretch last season? Isn't it your opinion that the only true way to evaluate a player is to see them in a game? Isn't that why you advocate using the entire season as evaluation period for rebuilding teams?

So if Shanny thought Beck was the man for the job, wouldn't he want to confirm those beliefs in some meaningless games? Or was Shanny so confident in himself and his son, even after they botched it with McNabb, that they just knew Beck would be the guy, without ever seeing him even perform within the system.

[darrelgreenie]

I think something a lot of media like to gloss over is that the 3rd string QB doesn't know the offense.

Inserting Beck as the starter for the last 3 games would be akin to starting a QB from off the street.

I think playing Grossman down the stretch was more about McNabb not playing and partial evaluation of the scheme like you said.

[Oldfan]

Mahons ~‘Well is this Mike's scheme or Kyle's scheme? While I see concepts that Mike used to use during his days in DEN, I also see a much more wide-open passing attack with multiple receivers sets, this is no the same scheme as 16 years ago.

It’s 90% the same scheme that Mike’s been running since 1995.

If he felt Beck was more talented why wouldn't he have put him in down the stretch last season? Isn't it your opinion that the only true way to evaluate a player is to see them in a game? Isn't that why you advocate using the entire season as evaluation period for rebuilding teams?

Seems pretty obvious to me. The decision to keep Beck had already been made. He was already signed for two more years. The decision to re-sign Rex had not been made.

[Mahons21]

I think something a lot of media like to gloss over is that the 3rd string QB doesn't know the offense.

Inserting Beck as the starter for the last 3 games would be akin to starting a QB from off the street.

I think playing Grossman down the stretch was more about McNabb not playing and partial evaluation of the scheme like you said.

I agree with all of this. However, I still think that if starting Beck(this season) was the plan last year as OF has suggested, than he would have gotten some live reps.

[Titaw]

To me this is just Jason Reid trying to create drama that isn't there. The Post and other columnists want drama hell they NEED drama to sell papers.

[Mahons21]

It’s 90% the same scheme that Mike’s been running since 1995.

I won't put any percentage on it, but I agree Kyle uses similar concepts, I don't agree that the schemes are nearly identical.

Also keep in mind, the NFL is constantly evolving, just because one scheme worked with a completely different group of players years ago, does not mean this will be the case for an entirely different group of players, playing in a different NFL.

Seems pretty obvious to me. The decision to keep Beck had already been made. He was already signed for two more years. The decision to re-sign Rex had not been made.

So the team chose to use the 3 game evaluation period on someone that could be their back-up QB? Rather than a QB they believed would be their starting QB? Despite the fact that KS had already been with Rex for a year prior, and despite the fact that they'd already seen Grossman run the offense in practice, as opposed to Beck who was most likely running the scout team offense majority of the time. All because they had to decide whether or not Grossman was worth vet min+ (more or less).

That's not logical in my opinion. Especially when considering how low the amount of guaranteed $ is on Rex's contract, he could very easily be cut. I doubt a team would use a 3 game evaluation period to decide whether or not someone deserves such a team-friendly contract, that allows the team to easily release the player at any point.

This really gets into cap mgmt, but the main reason Rex wasn't re-signed was because he wanted a larger contract/guaranteed starting position, two things the Redskins were not willing to concede. In my opinion this isn't because they felt Beck was the answer, but rather they simply felt Rex was replaceable.

[Skinsinparadise]

That's a possible and valid take.

For me I think its even simplier then that.

Coaches don't look at circumstances they evaluate talent.

And to me I think its clearly evident that Beck is more talented then Grossman.

Therefore Shanahan would expect talent to win out in a QB competition, but he's not gonna hand anyone the job.

If he likes Beck's potential more, yeah I presume he thinks he's more talented. So yes, I agree.

---------- Post added August-16th-2011 at 11:56 AM ----------

That's possible. Shanny is a guy who seems pretty stubborn, but also nimble. He might really like Beck, but I bet he doesn't like him so much that the winner of the camp won't be the QB.

I'd agree, I guess. Depends on how you define winner. If the battle is close, my point there is potentially more upside to explore the unknown (Beck) over the known (Grossman)

[Mahons21]

Beck's getting the start friday, will be fun to see.

[iMeast]

Strangely, Kornheiser, who really could write, loves Reid, and won't stop gushing about Reid on his radio show (when he is on the air). I understand Reid has a nose for controversy, but what you id here -- the backpedaling -- and his logic, which is is jumpy at best and nonexistent at worse, not to mention his writing, which can seem like Tweets smashed together into a "column", make me wonder what TK sees in him.

I can't stand Kornheiser or Reid but at least Kornheiser could write. I think the advent of social media has dumb down some sports writers ... Reid being a prime example.

HTTR

[Boss_Hogg]

Guess what Reid? You're wrong again.

[The Full Monty]

Hey Dum Dum Reid, we know you read this site:

You suck at life . "The fix is in" FAIL

[HailSkins83]

I find it funny that in Washington, the so called "insiders" know less about the Redskins and their potential moves than the fans and the members of extreme skins do. Some are obviously better than others but Reid is a joke. And GP and KJ only break news thats a few hours old.

[DavidGQ]

I am not sure which one I am more shock of? Reid is wrong again or JLC is right for once

[HateYanksDukeCowboys]

Can't find an updated practice squad thread anywhere. Not in breaking news, not in the stadium. Did a search too. Anyone know where an updated P.S. article is?

[authentic]

Nice bump... Show thy self Reid!!!

[Lavarleap56]

No other way to respond but :nana::poke::thud:

[Thirtyfive2seven]

Grossman is obviously the starter. WtF?

[DGREENHULK]

J Reid......crickets...churp churp

[Sweet Sassy Molassy]

@JReidPost: I always wrote Grossman could still start, and it was a column and not a news story, but I thought Beck gave them best chance. MORE

@JReidPost: Shanahan didn't. That's all that matters.

By this he means, "I have no idea what I'm talking about, but don't call me on it, because I threw a qualifier in there to cover my ass just in case I was wrong. I may be a journalist but I'm no more credible than anyone."