Facebook friend just posted this video of Gov Christie

[DRSmith]

As someone who had to suffer thru the successive disasters of McGreevey and Corzine, I love the guy. My wife, who is a public school teacher, is less enthused...

That was something I found bad about him, he talked about shared sacrifice to get through bad times and the rich were spared everyone else was ask to take cuts but no tax increases

[PeterMP]

My only real gripe with Christie here in NJ is that his cuts tend to weigh too heavily on the schools for my taste. There are a lot of places to trim the fat in this state, but Christie always seems to cut most deeply into the education budget. Aside from that I don't really have any major issues with the man.

Christie isn't actually awful in terms of funding education.

http://www.northjersey.com/news/123710164_Christie_s_education_spending_may_be_surprising.html

http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/phillipsburg/index.ssf/2011/07/gov_chris_christie_increases_s.html

http://www.politifact.com/new-jersey/statements/2011/jul/11/jim-whelan/state-sen-jim-whelan-says-gov-chris-christie-slash/

He's run into issues with the teachers union because he's gone after their benefits.

[SkinsHokieFan]

That was something I found bad about him, he talked about shared sacrifice to get through bad times and the rich were spared everyone else was ask to take cuts but no tax increases

NJ has been devestated with high taxes. That is why half the state is leaving. Keeping taxes, or hopefully lowering them, will help rebuild that base

Good for Chris Christie. I may actually have an R I can vote for again

[Koolblue13]

While I'm disgusted at what the national GOP has become, if you lived in NJ and have a lick of common sense, you'd detest the local Democratic party, regardless of your allegiances at the national level.

Despite NJ politics being an absurd mess for years and years, pretty much everybody I know (almost all Dems) would rather Dick Chenney run the state of NJ, instead of the Chins. I think he is doing a lot of necessary things the state needs and he doesn't worry about making enemies. I hope it works out for them.

[DRSmith]

NJ has been devestated with high taxes. That is why half the state is leaving. Keeping taxes, or hopefully lowering them, will help rebuild that base

Good for Chris Christie. I may actually have an R I can vote for again

I would not raise taxes on all, since you are making cuts on everyone else just on those not affected by the cuts.

Then when things are good cut the taxes.

[PeterMP]

That was something I found bad about him, he talked about shared sacrifice to get through bad times and the rich were spared everyone else was ask to take cuts but no tax increases

I don't think that Christie ever talked about raising taxes on the wealthy. I think he's always been pretty clear that he wouldn't do that. NJ has pretty high property taxes, which than hits people that are pretty well off (i.e. people that can afford houses in NJ).

In addition, NJ is in a tricky situation in that it is neighbored by states that actually had lower income tax rates than it does (PA and NY (though NY has raised its tax rates essentially to match NJ, but they were careful to match and not exceed NJ)).

[Larry]

I don't think that Christie ever talked about raising taxes on the wealthy. I think he's always been pretty clear that he wouldn't do that. NJ has pretty high property taxes, which than hits people that are pretty well off (i.e. people that can afford houses in NJ).

Just pointing out that I'm pretty certain that renters pay property taxes, too.

(I don't know if they pay a higher percentage of their income, than homeowners do. I don't know if their burden is higher or lower. Just pointing out that it isn't zero.)

[PeterMP]

Just pointing out that I'm pretty certain that renters pay property taxes, too.

(I don't know if they pay a higher percentage of their income, than homeowners do. I don't know if their burden is higher or lower. Just pointing out that it isn't zero.)

I'm assming you mean as part of the rent? Because I've rented place in NY, NJ, and DE, and never paid a property tax.

[Larry]

I'm assming you mean as part of the rent? Because I've rented place in NY, NJ, and DE, and never paid a property tax.

But I guarantee you that the landlord isn't paying it out of his generosity.

When people say corporations should pay taxes, we're told that "Oh, no, we can't tax corporations, because they pass their taxes on to consumers". But when the subject is property taxes, then suddenly poor people don't pay them.

Yeah, it's at least kind of a semantic point.

[PeterMP]

But I guarantee you that the landlord isn't paying it out of his generosity.

When people say corporations should pay taxes, we're told that "Oh, no, we can't tax corporations, because they pass their taxes on to consumers". But when the subject is property taxes, then suddenly poor people don't pay them.

Yeah, it's at least kind of a semantic point.

1. You've never heard me say that.

2. Rentors have more flexibility and negotiating power, especially in a state like NJ where the majority of the populace lives not to far from another state.

You essentially have no negotiating power as an individual with respect to your property taxes. I know a bunch of people that bought new homes near the top of the bubble, were assessed at the value they bought, and now would happily sell for their assessed value (where I live was growing quickly. New homes were assessed at their selling price. I bought an older home. Its assessment wasn't changed when I bought it. As near as I can tell, my assessment value was established sometime in the early 1980s and is less than what the value of the house is now, which is less than what I paid. The people in the neighborhood down the street from me where it was all new homes are getting killed. New home values were hit harder than older home values (partly because of their property taxes) and their home values have plummetted, but their assessment hasn't changed one iota.)

[THEREALTOR1]

I'm assming you mean as part of the rent? Because I've rented place in NY, NJ, and DE, and never paid a property tax.

Correct. Only property owners pay real estate taxes. Its obviously their job to incorporate that into their overhead when determining how much they need to rent a property for (same as hazard insurance on the property), but in no way is it a renters obligation to pay property tax.

[ACW]

Christy just lost the Repub base

[mjah]

He's run into issues with the teachers union because he's gone after their benefits.

Well, that and then the part where he comes off as gloating about it.

The other day I heard a Christie "look at what I've done for NJ lately" radio ad in which he obliquely referred to teachers' benefits as "wasteful government spending." The reference was not hard to put together; radio ads are targeted to the average radio listener, after all. That sort of boneheaded pandering does him no favors in NJ. I had to shake my head.

PA is a crappy state in many respects and has problems aplenty, but NJ is one of the (few) area states I can look at and say "At least I don't live there."

[PeterMP]

PA is a crappy state in many respects and has problems aplenty, but NJ is one of the (few) area states I can look at and say "At least I don't live there."

And I'm sure that pre-dates the current govenor.

Though I'd much rather have Christie as govenor than Corbett from what I've heard. It sounds like he couldn't be in more in the pocket of big business if he tried.

[SkinsHokieFan]

I think whats important to take from this is we finally have a politician so clearly denounce the "anti Sharia/Muslim" hysteria that has gripped parts of the country over the last 12 months

[twa]

Christy just lost the Repub base

How does what he said differ from W ?

[Jumbo]

Given the dismal level of appeal of major political figures these days, Christie comes off better than many to me, allowing I know only a modest amount of the man and only over the last couple years.

[Predicto]

Good for Christie.

And as an aside, even this liberal acknowledges that New Jersey property taxes are insane.

[mjah]

And I'm sure that pre-dates the current govenor..

True, though in those days the governor's office seemed to engage in far less apparent gloating about cutting teachers' benefits.

NJ property taxes are out of control. But as a visitor what really bothers me is the mandatory full-serve gas, because the resulting pump queues even screw over non-residents. I know more than one NJ resident who is terrified to operate a gas pump, because they're used to just sticking a card out the window and watching their boxy white sedan's gauge needle magically swing to the right.

Mandating that kind of crap in the private sector is shallow, transparent politics. ...Just like gagging Florida pediatricians.

Recently I've seen a lot of people just gassing up their own cars and to hell with the slow-ass attendants.

[Larry]

True, though in those days the governor's office seemed to engage in far less apparent gloating about cutting teachers' benefits.

NJ property taxes are out of control. But as a visitor what really bothers me is the mandatory full-serve gas, because the resulting pump queues even screw over non-residents. I know more than one NJ resident who is terrified to operate a gas pump, because they're used to just sticking a card out the window and watching their boxy white sedan's gauge needle magically swing to the right.

Mandating that kind of crap in the private sector is shallow, transparent politics. ...Just like gagging Florida pediatricians.

Recently I've seen a lot of people just gassing up their own cars and to hell with the slow-ass attendants.

My brother lives in Oregon, the other state that does that. (And he tells me that, in Oregon, it's illegal for you to pump your own gas. If you pump your own gas, both you and the station (if they take your money) can be punished.)

He explained that the reasoning behind the law was that people who pump gas for a living don't have a whole lot of other career alternatives. That if self-serve caught on, (and it absolutely would), then all of the people pumping gas would simply be permanent welfare recipients.

As such, they figured that they had a choice.

1. Have motorists pay 2 cents/gallon estra, to pay somebody to pump the gas.
   
2. Have the taxpayers pay people to not pump gas.

It changed the law from one where I'm certain that the law is stupid, to one where I'm no longer sure which way is best. IMO, there's at least a plausible excuse for it.

[PeterMP]

True, though in those days the governor's office seemed to engage in far less apparent gloating about cutting teachers' benefits.

NJ property taxes are out of control. But as a visitor what really bothers me is the mandatory full-serve gas, because the resulting pump queues even screw over non-residents. I know more than one NJ resident who is terrified to operate a gas pump, because they're used to just sticking a card out the window and watching their boxy white sedan's gauge needle magically swing to the right.

Mandating that kind of crap in the private sector is shallow, transparent politics. ...Just like gagging Florida pediatricians.

Recently I've seen a lot of people just gassing up their own cars and to hell with the slow-ass attendants.

I don't understand the mandatory full-serve gas (Though it is actually really nice in the winter. I hate being on the way back from the in-laws and on the PA turnpike on a winter night and looking at my gas guage and thinking, 'I'm not going to make it back to NJ.').

I think I've told this story before. My wife worked with a young guy in his early 20's. He didn't know how to use a gas pump and was moving to the DC area. They drove into NY from NJ and went to a couple of different gas stations putting like $2.00 in at each station show he could see the variety of gas pumps out there, and she could teach him how to use them.

---------- Post added August-5th-2011 at 01:51 PM ----------

My brother lives in Oregon, the other state that does that. (And he tells me that, in Oregon, it's illegal for you to pump your own gas.)

He explained that the reasoning behind the law was that people who pump gas for a living don't have a whole lot of other career alternatives. That if self-serve caught on, (and it absolutely would), then all of the people pumping gas would simply be permanent welfare recipients.

As such, they figured that they had a choice.

1. Have motorists pay 2 cents/gallon estra, to pay somebody to pump the gas.
   
2. Have the taxpayers pay people to not pump gas.

It changed the law from one where I'm certain that the law is stupid, to one where I'm no longer sure which way is best. IMO, there's at least a plausible excuse for it.

The other excuse they give in NJ is environmental. The people that pump the gas are suppossed to be more careful in terms of not spilling it, though that doesn't seem to be the case from what I've observed.

It seems to me, they must fell like they are going to go home smelling like gas any way, so what are a few more drops vs. I'm normally trying to go somewhere where I don't want to smell like gas so am extra careful not to spill it.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

How does what he said differ from W ?

And how does the base feel about W these days?

[mjah]

As such, they figured that they had a choice.

1. Have motorists pay 2 cents/gallon estra, to pay somebody to pump the gas.
   
2. Have the taxpayers pay people to not pump gas.

I'm fine with the idea of paying people to do a frankly menial task in a situation where it incurs no additional major costs etc., vs. paying them to do nothing. At least you get something for your money.

But in the case of NJ's mandatory full-serve law, there actually is a cost. Look at all of the people waiting in line at busy NJ pumps during peak travel times (which is when the largest number of people need gas). Rush hour, holidays, weekend travel... all of those people are being inconvenienced. It's costing them their time. Some of those rest-stop lines can be 15-20 minutes long during peak travel, or longer. I've occasionally waited longer than that, when I was really low on gas and hit a 25-minute line.

I wonder how many collective worker hours are lost each week in NJ, due to waiting for slow attendants with zero incentive to work quickly. Self-serve customers, by contrast, have an incentive to be done quickly and get moving -- and they actually can stand there and watch their own individual pump until it stops. There's no waiting for the attendant to shuffle around and finally notice that it's done.

So I'm not sold on the idea that the trade-off is worth it. Arguably the gasoline might be pumped more efficiently if the workers are paid to stay home!

I don't understand the mandatory full-serve gas (Though it is actually really nice in the winter. I hate being on the way back from the in-laws and on the PA turnpike on a winter night and looking at my gas guage and thinking, 'I'm not going to make it back to NJ.').

Not to suggest that you're framing it as black-and-white, but it's better to be cold for a few minutes at a self-serve pump than to run out of gas and be cold for many many minutes. And there are plenty of voluntary full-serve stations all over the nation. Surely you'll find a few along any long driving route, with a few trips' worth of investigation. It's the mandatory aspect in NJ that bothers me.

The other excuse they give in NJ is environmental. The people that pump the gas are suppossed to be more careful in terms of not spilling it, though that doesn't seem to be the case from what I've observed.

Agreed. About 6-7 years ago I ran into some interesting study results on safety at full- vs. self-serve pumps. I haven't looked for them again but basically there was no substantial difference found between the two. I imagine that the environmental differences would be pretty marginal too.

[Larry]

But in the case of NJ's mandatory full-serve law, there actually is a cost. Look at all of the people waiting in line at busy NJ pumps during peak travel times (which is when the largest number of people need gas). Rush hour, holidays, weekend travel... all of those people are being inconvenienced. It's costing them their time. Some of those rest-stop lines can be 15-20 minutes long during peak travel, or longer. I've occasionally waited longer than that, when I was really low on gas and hit a 25-minute line.

You're saying that there aren't enough gas stations to fill the demand?

Sounds like a job for . . . the market.

[twa]

And how does the base feel about W these days?

Obama is making him more popular every day.

My point being simply refuting prejudice is not gonna hurt Christie any more than it did W.

it is nothing but a talking point among the fringe.