Slashdot: House Panel Approves Bill Forcing ISPs To Log Users

[Teller]

Ok, that makes sense. The concern is that this basically becomes a nationwide wiretap. Is that right?

IMO, yes. Absolutely.

I'd qualify that, of course, by saying that if there's evidence that someone IS conducting illegal activity via their computer, then by all means get a warrant, and hammer the hell out of them. Especially pedophiles.

[Larry]

Why is this bad? Copyrighted material should be protected.

Right.

What's wrong with the government not only maintaining a database of every action taken, by every person in the world, with no probable cause whatsoever, but demanding that other people actually collect this data for them, and send it to them, just in case they should come up with a reason, later, to want it?

And combining this rule with already-existing rules that state that once data is collected, then businesses can sell, rent, or use this information n any way they want, without the person's permission, that's not a problem, either.

---------- Post added July-30th-2011 at 09:31 AM ----------

Hey, that dude's acquiring illegal music. Go after him. Oh wait, he's just doing what everyone else is doing

If the government takes action upon music "piracy" it'll be ridiculous, it's almost a part of culture now to torrent

Deal with it

Hell, we've been stealing things for so long that it's become an entitlement, right?

---------- Post added July-30th-2011 at 09:34 AM ----------

IMO, yes. Absolutely.

I'd qualify that, of course, by saying that if there's evidence that someone IS conducting illegal activity via their computer, then by all means get a warrant, and hammer the hell out of them. Especially pedophiles.

Agreed.

I kind of think that's the way things are supposed to be in this country.

1) Acquire probable cause.

2) Convince a supposedly neutral party that yep, that's probable cause, all right.

3) Go get 'em.

[Bang]

I think protecting copyrighted materials is way down on the list of what makes this attractive to it's proponents.

Marketing is likely top of the list for sorporate intertests.. having a database of pretty much every American internet user's surfing habits is invaluable in that regard.

Direct individual marketing is priceless.

For political interests, knowing who their enemies are is certainly important... let's say political party A takes power, and decides that political parties B and C are outlawed, and starts to round up everyone who visits websites that are geared to them?

Information is power.

Think of it this way..

would any one of us wear a bracelet that tells someone somewhere where we are, where we're shopping, what we're buying, what we're looking at, what we're doing?

(And the reasoning is,, everyone must wear this bracelet because some people steal..)

I very much doubt it.

This is no different.

~Bang

[Teller]

But to take the sinister look... let's say political party A takes power, and decides that political parties B and C are outlawed, and startts to round up everyone who visits websites that are geared to them?

Information is power.

~Bang

It definitely smells of a witch hunt. What form it takes doesn't matter to me, honestly. It just needs stopped.

[Bang]

It definitely smells of a witch hunt. What form it takes doesn't matter to me, honestly. It just needs stopped.

It certainly could turn into one.

the road to Hell is paved with the best of intentions, right?

~Bang

[Teller]

It certainly could turn into one.

the road to Hell is paved with the best of intentions, right?

~Bang

Indeed.

Although I, and I'm sure you, don't see unreasonable search and seizure as the "best of intentions."

[alexey]

Considering the relationship our country has with science and technology, I am not optimistic about our lawmakers' ability and willingness to make good choices in an increasingly complex environment.

A lot of things can be sold as long as they are wrapped in nice, expensive packaging.

The framework for making business is well established - protection of security when you want the government to do something for you, smaller government when those pesky environmental regulations and such get in the way.

[War Paint]

Hopefully the pen of "change" will prevent this from ever becoming law. Given its track record so far, I'm not optimistic.

Obama has lost me. My party is pushing me away with their idiocy. Is there ANY-****ING-BODY out there that I can even HALFWAY believe in or trust? ANYONE?!?!?!

Ron Paul.

---------- Post added July-30th-2011 at 10:13 AM ----------

Ah yes,, another taste of right wing "freedom".

~Bang

Which will probably be embraced by the left wing also.

[Larry]

Think of it this way..

would any one of us wear a bracelet that tells someone somewhere where we are, where we're shopping, what we're buying, what we're looking at, what we're doing?

(And the reasoning is,, everyone must wear this bracelet because some people steal..)

I very much doubt it.

This is no different.

~Bang

We already do.

We carry cell phones, and use credit cards.

Side note: I've read that recently, a Brittish MP decided, as an experiment, to see how much information his cell phone company was gathering about him. So he filed a FOIA request, demanding that his cell phone provider give him all the information they had collected on him, for a two month period.

And he discovered that in addition to tracking every action he performed with his phone. Every phone call, every text message, every web site; that his cell phone provider had queried his phone's physical location

3,600 times

over a two month period.

This works out to an average of every 25 minutes, 24x7. And was retaining this onformation. Just in case it might be worth some money, down the road.

And the government has decided that if we carry a cell phone and use credit cards, then we have consented to that. And that, since we consented, then the government doesn't need a reason for the government to have it, either.

[ACW]

Ron Paul.

Which will probably be embraced by the left wing also.

Sad but true.

Or Gary Johnson.

[Larry]

Recalling a t-shirt I saw, years ago:

A donkey and an elephant, both pointing a gun at the camera.

"Your money" "Or your rights"

"Vote Libertarian"

[Bang]

Ron Paul.

---------- Post added July-30th-2011 at 10:13 AM ----------

Which will probably be embraced by the left wing also.

"Probably be" and "already did" are two entirely different things, eh?

~Bang

[PokerPacker]

Switzerland looks nicer and nicer every day

[Burgold]

.:tantrum:

And you guys made fun of me for my Republicans against the bill of rights thread :halo:

So far this year, Republicans at the state and national level have struck out against the Freedom of Speech, against the Second Ammendment and the right to bare arms, and against privacy laws. Woo hoo! Now, that's small government strict constitutionalism for ya.

[CurseReversed]

Ron Paul.

---------- Post added July-30th-2011 at 10:13 AM ----------

Which will probably be embraced by the left wing also.

I think its lucky someone as honest and trustworthy as him is even available as a choice. There is actually somewhere to go for those who can see the failures of both parties to stop both parties from doing what they want.

It could be so much worse.

You might not agree with him on every issue, but to know that this type of legislation would never pass under his watch and to know that no other big brother encroachments would either is a hopeful thing. There are a lot of things you could "depend" on with Paul as president that you could never hope too with any other politician. Most of them are positive IMO.

People will support him once they stop trusting the status quo of current govt to take care of the future of this country, not just the next couple of months.

Printing Trillions of dollars more to keep this thing going cannot be the answer, yet it is the only one we have from anybody but Paul.

[Destino]

Remember when people freaked out about the government looking into what books you checked out of the library? It's clear who won that battle isn't it. Privacy is dead and things are going to get worse at an accelerated rate.

[Larry]

Remember when people freaked out about the government looking into what books you checked out of the library? It's clear who won that battle isn't it. Privacy is dead and things are going to get worse at an accelerated rate.

Actually, it's worse than that.

People were freaking about the possibility that the government supposedly had the authority to demand your library records, if they had a reason to investigate you.

This (and similar laws) is more analogous to the government demanding that all libraries send the records of all citizens to the government, without being asked, just in case the government should decide later that it wants the information.

[Corcaigh]

How soon before ISPs just bundle anonymizer functionality into their offerings. It would be a good way to differentiate your offering.

http://www.anonymizer.com/

[Stugein]

"bill expands the information that commercial Internet providers are required to store to include customers' names, addresses, phone numbers, credit card numbers, bank account numbers, and temporarily-assigned IP addresses."

To be fair ISPs already keep all of that information. Subscriber information is kept at least for the life of the account, or up to a year longer. DHCP logs detailing who had what assigned IP through what times are currently kept anywhere from 30-180 days. ISPs keep those records of their own will for various purposes. This bill merely makes keeping those records REQUIRED and extends the times they must be kept for a year or more. NOthing new is really be kept that wasn't already..it's just mandated now instead of the ISPs doing it just because.

[Major Harris]

And you guys made fun of me for my Republicans against the bill of rights thread :halo:

So far this year, Republicans at the state and national level have struck out against the Freedom of Speech, against the Second Ammendment and the right to bare arms, and against privacy laws. Woo hoo! Now, that's small government strict constitutionalism for ya.

voted for by 4 dems don't forget.

[Burgold]

voted for by 4 dems don't forget.

Boo on them too.

Btw, on a more sincere term, I'm discouraged by the unanamynity that seems to accompany almost every vote. There's something wrong when on every bill 99% or Republicans vote one way and 99% of Democrats vote the other way.

[Major Harris]

Boo on them too.

Btw, on a more sincere term, I'm discouraged by the unanamynity that seems to accompany almost every vote. There's something wrong when on every bill 99% or Republicans vote one way and 99% of Democrats vote the other way.

agreed 100%. it's beyond pathetic. to be honest, it's hard not to be apathetic when you consider the plight.

[Larry]

I actually heard some goy on the radio, a few weeks ago, talking about politics and polarization. And he mentioned some political watchdog organization that watches politicians, and rates them on various scales.

And he mentioned that, this Senate marks the first time on the history of this ratings service, where the most liberal Republican in the Senate, is more conservative than the most conservative Democrat.

And he said that the "overlap" in the House, was like three people.

[Burgold]

I actually heard some goy on the radio, a few weeks ago, talking about politics and polarization. And he mentioned some political watchdog organization that watches politicians, and rates them on various scales.

And he mentioned that, this Senate marks the first time on the history of this ratings service, where the most liberal Republican in the Senate, is more conservative than the most conservative Democrat.

And he said that the "overlap" in the House, was like three people.

Do you remember what show that was or which watchdog group?

[Teller]

And he said that the "overlap" in the House, was like three people.

And I'd say the overlap in the Tailgate is like three people too.

The difference, of course, being that you could lock you, Burg and Predicto in a room with ND, twa and I, and we could hammer something out. Though I wouldn't put it past you guys to use some unsavory tactics...withholding alcohol from twa, forcing me to sign off on Affirmative Action to get a debt limit deal, or roping ND into grants to mosques.