MySA: SAHA to ban smoking in public housing

[Renegade7]

You are absolutely correct! It's worse, imo.

The only problem I see is enforcement. Who is going to enforce the law and what are the consequences?

Worse then heroin? Seriously? You honestly believe that?

Look, I've said what I've had to say on this one, and Kool touched on it as well. But to me, it seems like a cop out to just lump "tobacco" in with other hardcore drugs instead of taking the time to actually regulate the industry and the additives put in some of these products.

Regular Cigar smoker DOES NOT EQUAL heroin addict. Anyone here of American Spirits? And don't you come near my dutches, you aren't even really supposed to smoke those, ya know?

[twa]

I've been informed smoking is a health hazard,fire hazard,a nuisance,damages the property,lower the quality of life and wastes money better directed to real needs.

Think of the children:pfft:

[Capt. Kaos]

Worse then heroin? Seriously? You honestly believe that?

Yes I believe what I said and Yes I am serious!

stats are from druglibrary.org but you can get pretty much the same information from just about any other relevant site.

----------------------------------------------------------

Drug Users Deaths per Year Deaths per 100,000

----------------------------------------------------------

Tobacco 60 million 390,000 650

alcohol 100 million 150,000 150

Heroin 500,000 400 80

Cocaine 5 million 200 4

----------------------------------------------------------

This is just the numbers concerning the end results, let's not take into account the emotional and financial burden that smoking and it's health issues carry with it.

**Let me add, I was a pack+ a day smoker for over 20 years**

[Special K]

They might have just said Menthol cigs are banned.

Not yet.

FDA is reviewing the scientific advisory committee's report regarding menthol (which recommended a ban). Hopefully we can get the ban withing the next year, that would be great.

[Renegade7]

Yes I believe what I said and Yes I am serious!

stats are from druglibrary.org but you can get pretty much the same information from just about any other relevant site.

----------------------------------------------------------

Drug Users Deaths per Year Deaths per 100,000

----------------------------------------------------------

Tobacco 60 million 390,000 650

alcohol 100 million 150,000 150

Heroin 500,000 400 80

Cocaine 5 million 200 4

----------------------------------------------------------

This is just the numbers concerning the end results, let's not take into account the emotional and financial burden that smoking and it's health issues carry with it.

**Let me add, I was a pack+ a day smoker for over 20 years**

C'mon, man, that's strictly a numbers argument. I've been smoking since I was 14 and have gone from a pack a day at 16-18 to one or two a day now. I will be the first to tell you it ain't f'n spinach, but those numbers are strictly skewed due to the fact tobacco and alcohol are legal while cocaine and heroin are not. I can go to a gas station right now and pick up a pack of newports and a 211, as can most Americans.

---------- Post added July-28th-2011 at 12:55 PM ----------

Not yet.

FDA is reviewing the scientific advisory committee's report regarding menthol (which recommended a ban). Hopefully we can get the ban withing the next year, that would be great.

We? What is with you people? Menthol is a naturally occurring substance found in mint plants, not that toxic green slime that made the ninja turtles.

[Corcaigh]

C'mon, man, that's strictly a numbers argument.

Exactly. The number of lives lost to heroin is a drop in the bucket compared to the damage done by tobacco to society.

[Madison Redskin]

I have no problem whatsoever with laws designed to make smokers pay for the costs they heap on society (e.g., laws creating taxes to offset healthcare costs resulting from smoking). However, I have a serious problem with laws designed to effectively kill the tobacco industry because smoking is bad for your health. If I want to be a 500 lb. beast who chainsmokes and drinks a 1/5 of JD a day, I should be able to do so.

[twa]

I have no problem whatsoever with laws designed to make smokers pay for the costs they heap on society (e.g., laws creating taxes to offset healthcare costs resulting from smoking). However, I have a serious problem with laws designed to effectively kill the tobacco industry because smoking is bad for your health. If I want to be a 500 lb. beast who chainsmokes and drinks a 1/5 of JD a day, I should be able to do so.

But not while on the public dole......ya'll done made others have a vested interest in your well being

enjoy

[Madison Redskin]

But not while on the public dole......ya'll done made others have a vested interest in your well being

enjoy

I'm not complaining about the regulation/policy that is the subject of this thread, I'm talking about the general notion the government should pass legislation to discourage people from smoking, or punish smokers, solely because smoking is harmful for your health.

[Renegade7]

Exactly. The number of lives lost to heroin is a drop in the bucket compared to the damage done by tobacco to society.

Your missing my point: If heroin was legal it would cause a much larger amount of damage to our society then tobacco. Smoking tobacco is not good for you, we know that, but saying it's more dangerous then heroin (which is what the original posters argument was) simply because tobacco kills more people is illogical. Someone can smoke one cigarette and not be taking nearly the same risk of someone taking one injection of heroin in the arm. It's not even close.

[twa]

I'm not complaining about the regulation/policy that is the subject of this thread, I'm talking about the general notion the government should pass legislation to discourage people from smoking, or punish smokers, solely because smoking is harmful for your health.

While I agree..... we need to expand this regulation to include healthcare for the needy

Think of the savings and improvement to quality of life.

Next is ya'lls diet and exercise

[Corcaigh]

Your missing my point: If heroin was legal it would cause a much larger amount of damage to our society then tobacco. .

I understand your point, and it's irrelevant as it's based on the IF. You are stating that if we had different laws in this country, tobacco would be less dangerous to society than heroin. Until laws are changed and heroin is legalized, tobacco is much more dangerous to society.

[Destino]

Can we stop banning substances people want? Perhaps instead stop allowing tabacco companies from making their product more addictive by adding all sorts of wonderful ingredients. We should have learned by now that banning substances does not have a positive effect on society.

[Capt. Kaos]

Your missing my point: If heroin was legal it would cause a much larger amount of damage to our society then tobacco. Smoking tobacco is not good for you, we know that, but saying it's more dangerous then heroin (which is what the original posters argument was) simply because tobacco kills more people is illogical. Someone can smoke one cigarette and not be taking nearly the same risk of someone taking one injection of heroin in the arm. It's not even close.

If is a powerful word, like I tell my kids, If your aunt had balls she'd be your uncle.

That one word can completely distort an entire topic of conversation.

I didnt qualify my statement, you shouldnt either.

As it stands in The good ol' US of A tobacco is more dangerous than heroine. Physically, emotionally and financially tobacco wins this debate without a second look. And if you don't want to discuss numbers in this particular topic what should we use, taste? odor? looks?

To not use numbers in this conversation is asinine. Numbers are the foundation for this topic, there's no other way to look at it, logically that is.

[twa]

I understand your point, and it's irrelevant as it's based on the IF. You are stating that if we had different laws in this country, tobacco would be less dangerous to society than heroin. Until laws are changed and heroin is legalized, tobacco is much more dangerous to society.

Ah, so if we make laws to reduce the level of smokers(and naturally the impact) then you will stay the hell out of my business?

Ban smoking for any receiving welfare or govt assistance ,we got a natural lever just like hwy funds:evilg:

[Renegade7]

I understand your point, and it's irrelevant as it's based on the IF. You are stating that if we had different laws in this country, tobacco would be less dangerous to society than heroin. Until laws are changed and heroin is legalized, tobacco is much more dangerous to society.

My argument is with the same laws still in place. You don't have people going to rehab clinics for smoking cigarettes, but instead of fixing one of the few stable industries this country has left, people want to wipe it off the face of the earth. Tobacco is not a hard core drug and should not be treated like one.

---------- Post added July-28th-2011 at 01:47 PM ----------

If is a powerful word, like I tell my kids, If your aunt had balls she'd be your uncle.

That one word can completely distort an entire topic of conversation.

I didnt qualify my statement, you shouldnt either.

As it stands in The good ol' US of A tobacco is more dangerous than heroine. Physically, emotionally and financially tobacco wins this debate without a second look. And if you don't want to discuss numbers in this particular topic what should we use, taste? odor? looks?

To not use numbers in this conversation is asinine. Numbers are the foundation for this topic, there's no other way to look at it, logically that is.

Honestly, the word "dangerous" is what through me off about our debate. You and I both know heroin is worse for the body then tobacco, but more people are getting killed from tobacco because it's legal and it's everywhere. But the reason why I came into this thread is because even though I understand what San Antonio is doing, I do not like where this is going at all.

[Special K]

We? What is with you people? Menthol is a naturally occurring substance found in mint plants, not that toxic green slime that made the ninja turtles.

Woh woh.

Menthol is added to cigarettes as a flavor. This makes them more marketable to younger smokers. Check the scientific literature if you don't believe me. These studies are what the FDA's scientific advisory committee based their recommendations on. These recommendations are made on the basis of public health impact...not the fact that the FDA wants to torture you. But go ahead and play victim all you want.

I'll be more than happy to help enforce that law that makes cigarettes less desirable to young kids. Just like I help enforce other laws aimed at decreasing access to young kids. I'm cool with tobacco companies, smokers, and libertarians hating me.

[twa]

Katy , kids are already forbidden to buy tobacco,much less market to them

want to raise it to 30?

[Renegade7]

Woh woh.

Menthol is added to cigarettes as a flavor. This makes them more marketable to younger smokers. Check the scientific literature if you don't believe me. These studies are what the FDA's scientific advisory committee based their recommendations on. These recommendations are made on the basis of public health impact...not the fact that the FDA wants to torture you. But go ahead and play victim all you want.

I'll be more than happy to help enforce that law that makes cigarettes less desirable to young kids. Just like I help enforce other laws aimed at decreasing access to young kids. I'm cool with tobacco companies, smokers, and libertarians hating me.

The government has already gone out of it's way to curtail marketing of cigarettes to children. Now you want to knock out a quarter of the industry just to make sure there's nothing left? What about everyone else who likes menthols simply because they hate the taste of regular cigarettes? Believe it or not, young kids already know smoking can and will eventually kill them. This isn't about saving the kids or playing the victim as it is starting the process of banning tobacco.

And for the record, I don't hate you. But putting that smiley face with your last sentence, whether you know it or not, comes across as you telling me to go screw myself with a smile on your face. This mentality bothers me, and it's all over the place now.

[GhostofSparta]

I'll be more than happy to help enforce that law that makes cigarettes less desirable to young kids. Just like I help enforce other laws aimed at decreasing access to young kids.

I know this is a side-track, but I'm inclined to ask: Does that mean you're willing to start treating alcohol the same way we treat cigarettes/tobacco in general? I've gotten in argument with those "Truth" anti-tobacco people at various events when they try to pretend that alcohol isn't as bad as tobacco and therefore not worth the effort. If you can't advertise tobacco anywhere because of "the children" then why can Budweiser buy 5 Super Bowl ads every year? Seems a tad contradictory.

Anyway, rant over. I agree with this move. It's public housing, not your house. Some apartments owned privately ban smoking, so I don't see the issue. Or be smart and skirt it by smoking next to a window with a fan behind you to blow the smoke out.

[Special K]

Katy , kids are already forbidden to buy tobacco,much less market to them

want to raise it to 30?

Right. And can I just tell you tobacco companies still actively market to kids? Their marketing strategies are under the auspices of marketing to adults, but it's obvious it's to kids. Camel Crush, anyone?

Furthermore, you know how easy it is for kids to get tobacco products? It's a joke. My FDA kids get crap on a daily basis during our stings. I never realized the deception of the tobacco companies until I started working in the tobacco field.

---------- Post added July-28th-2011 at 10:15 AM ----------

I know this is a side-track, but I'm inclined to ask: Does that mean you're willing to start treating alcohol the same way we treat cigarettes/tobacco in general? I've gotten in argument with those "Truth" anti-tobacco people at various events when they try to pretend that alcohol isn't as bad as tobacco and therefore not worth the effort. If you can't advertise tobacco anywhere because of "the children" then why can Budweiser buy 5 Super Bowl ads every year? Seems a tad contradictory.

Anyway, rant over. I agree with this move. It's public housing, not your house. Some apartments owned privately ban smoking, so I don't see the issue. Or be smart and skirt it by smoking next to a window with a fan behind you to blow the smoke out.

I'm completely FOR treating alcohol like tobacco as far as advertising.

There is a slight difference between the public health impact of alcohol, addiction rates, etc. But I firmly believe alcohol should be cracked down on, particularly in regards to marketing to the younger demographic. I fully supporting banning Four Loko and other energy alcohol drinks.