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Why are people against the players on this?


cchhdd25

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I understand we all want football. And it appears the owners made their approval.. here's the thing.

They did not approve a CBA. They approved a settlement to the lawsuit. Inside of that settlement was the CBA. That CBA per the NFLPA was basically the same 2008 CBA. Per email given to player reps

"Demands that the players re-form as a union and provide evidence by Tuesday, July 26 that a majority of players have signed union authorization cards virtually all provisions of the old CBA would become final on Saturday, July 30th. If the NFL does not agree to the players’ proposed changes, the old terms on benefits, discipline, safety, etc. will remain unchanged for another 10 years."

So basically the NFL said that despite all this bargaining, we are giving you the same CBA from 2008, you have three days to change it (granted a lot of that work has been done already), but if we don't vote on it and approve, then your locked in for the next 10 years at the 2008 CBA.

Sound like a good deal to you guys? Well it gets better. The settlement also had no mention of the money the players were due to receive on the TV contracts lawsuit in it.

Sorry guys... this is bait and switch all the way. The owners are evil. This I feel is going to go on for a while. This was basically kicking sand in the players face.

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I understand we all want football. And it appears the owners made their approval.. here's the thing.

They did not approve a CBA. They approved a settlement to the lawsuit. Inside of that settlement was the CBA. That CBA per the NFLPA was basically the same 2008 CBA. Per email given to player reps

"Demands that the players re-form as a union and provide evidence by Tuesday, July 26 that a majority of players have signed union authorization cards virtually all provisions of the old CBA would become final on Saturday, July 30th. If the NFL does not agree to the players’ proposed changes, the old terms on benefits, discipline, safety, etc. will remain unchanged for another 10 years."

So basically the NFL said that despite all this bargaining, we are giving you the same CBA from 2008, you have three days to change it (granted a lot of that work has been done already), but if we don't vote on it and approve, then your locked in for the next 10 years at the 2008 CBA.

Sound like a good deal to you guys? Well it gets better. The settlement also had no mention of the money the players were due to receive on the TV contracts lawsuit in it.

Sorry guys... this is bait and switch all the way. The owners are evil. This I feel is going to go on for a while. This was basically kicking sand in the players face.

All of what you wrote is wrong.

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I'm against the players mainly, but the players have some valid points.

Players want more money to do less work. (less off season training).

I only stand with the players on 2 items. no to 18 games, but agree that 4 preseasons games is to many. And don't allow to tag a player twice.

The main reason im against the players is because they get paid enough to play a sport that any of us would jump up and do for free. They also just waste the money on toys anyways and fail to invest into there future after football.

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I understand we all want football. And it appears the owners made their approval.. here's the thing.

They did not approve a CBA. They approved a settlement to the lawsuit. Inside of that settlement was the CBA. That CBA per the NFLPA was basically the same 2008 CBA. Per email given to player reps

"Demands that the players re-form as a union and provide evidence by Tuesday, July 26 that a majority of players have signed union authorization cards virtually all provisions of the old CBA would become final on Saturday, July 30th. If the NFL does not agree to the players’ proposed changes, the old terms on benefits, discipline, safety, etc. will remain unchanged for another 10 years."

So basically the NFL said that despite all this bargaining, we are giving you the same CBA from 2008, you have three days to change it (granted a lot of that work has been done already), but if we don't vote on it and approve, then your locked in for the next 10 years at the 2008 CBA.

Sound like a good deal to you guys? Well it gets better. The settlement also had no mention of the money the players were due to receive on the TV contracts lawsuit in it.

Sorry guys... this is bait and switch all the way. The owners are evil. This I feel is going to go on for a while. This was basically kicking sand in the players face.

Nonsense.

The document the owners agreed last night is not the old 2008 CBA which they have passed to the Union and said "change that'. Its a document which is the result of months of negotiation in which the Union leadership were in the room and which resulted in a document both sides lawyers were involved in drawing up. With electronic document control it takes seconds to do a version comparison to see any changes made to the latest draft.

Recertification is a critical prerequisite for the CBA. Without a Union there can be no collective agreement so recertification was always going to be needed. It appears that the process of both communicating what is in the agreement so players are able to vote and going through the recertification process are what is holding things up. Both of these are the repsonsibility of the Union and players. So yes I'm blaming the players - or at least their representation - for the delay in an agreement.

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please enlighten me on how its wrong?

Considering the owners ended the old CBA early; why on earth would they want to go back to 2008 rules? What you said doesn't match with reports about what the new CBA will contain.

If the owners did do a bait and switch; then I side with the players and let them tear the NFL apart.

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The owners just agreed to this. You can't just expect the players to agree to it right away. There are probably countless pages to sift through. All the lawyers have to carefully read over it to make sure something wasn't "slipped in", by the owners. Guys, this is a little more than buying a car. It takes time.

And this by no means is saying I am taking one side or the other. I blame both parties--equally. There's no reason that this whole process should have taken this long. Especially considering I heard its basically the same deal that was on the table in March.

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Considering the owners ended the old CBA early; why on earth would they want to go back to 2008 rules? What you said doesn't match with reports about what the new CBA will contain.

If the owners did do a bait and switch; then I side with the players and let them tear the NFL apart.

Its not a bait and switch.

It looks like the 'changes' the players are talking about are actually omissions. The settlement of the judgement against the league for the TV deal that included insurance monies and the players demands for the return of $300M of benefits lost in the final year of the old CBA.

The owners position on these is that all law suits relating to the old CBA are settled by the act of a new CBA and that the $300M was a provision of the old CBA and we are not reneogitaiting that.

Here is what should happen. The players Union should redline the document the owners approved on the issue of the law suit settlement and drop the $300M issue as they pulling that out of their ass. They should have the players vote on this redlined document and presumably approve. Then they punt it back to the owners. If they do this we would probably get to an agreement pretty quickly.

I think this is what the NFL are doing - forcing the Union to say what exactly the want on these issues as a bottom line. Here is what we are happy with - what do you want to change?

Bottom line it looks like they are about 97% of the way to an agreement but in these things that last 3% can be hard to get to.

---------- Post added July-22nd-2011 at 03:12 AM ----------

The owners just agreed to this. You can't just expect the players to agree to it right away. There are probably countless pages to sift through. All the lawyers have to carefully read over it to make sure something wasn't "slipped in", by the owners. Guys, this is a little more than buying a car. It takes time.

There is electronic document control around now. You can do a look across in seconds and see changes - its not something you have to pour over for hours.

I do think there is an issue about getting the players to understand what they are voting on. But that was always going to be an issue - the Union should have been prepared for this and it seems to all now be a big surprise.

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The email sent out by the NFLPA to the player reps is the bait and switch here - there are elements in the NFLPA who wants to squeeze every last penny out of this process and extend and extend it - they did this pre lock out and they will do it again and again - the language in the email is very militant and throws the sides far appart - if a deal is not done today (friday) then i doubt there will be a 2011 season .

The players at some point have to realize while people are loosing their homes, strugling to put food on the table they are squabling over more and more money to play a freeking game - i wonder how many of these players would have any sort of income if there was no market for someone who could run and catch a football or be 300+lbs and shove other 300+lbs guys ....

This is pathetic - i say if the players refuse this CBA agreement and the NFL opens the doors for business on saturday then the players should be considered to be on strike and the teams could then look to bring in non union players to be able to go about their business - bring on the replacements .

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Most fans are not on the owners or players side.

They are on their own side. They just want football the fastest way possible, and aren't interested in right or fair between people trying to divide up nearly 10 BILLION dollars.

Fans (most of them, anyway) are going to show their ire at whoever seems like an impediment to that road to football. And right now, it seems like it is the players who are, nitpicking and seemingly stalling on every single issue.

The owners have basically told the players to put their money where their mouth is. You (meaning the NFLPA) have been saying all Spring and Summer that you want to play football and practice, but the owners were locking you out. Well, now the owners have said "Lockout over. Come back to work Saturday". So do it. Yes it is a pressure move, and probably cancelling the Hall of Fame Game was a pressure move.

As I said before, it has nothing to do with right or fair, it is just the way it is.

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I see it like this.

The players play 16 games + playoffs and get really good money for that. They earn there money by doing what they love to do, playing football. The players never invested a dollar in the teams or league so they run no financiele risk.

The owners worked 'hard' to earn the money to buy a team. They keep investing in the teams to keep it up to date (facilities, stadium, coaching etc.) and they do run a financiele risk because al lot of there money is invested in the teams.

Players need to see that they life a great life and get payed a huge amount of money to do that. Whitout the league and the owners ,who invested in the NFL, they would't be able to get rich.

But at the end it is all about pride and showing 'who is in controle'. Nobody cares who get's that amount and who get's the other....it is like two headstrong little childeren who both just want to be proved right. I am right. No I am right, you are wrong. No I am right. No I.

We as fans made this league this big. We make sure that players and owners life wealthy. Without us there wouldn't be a NFL. And at this point we are the losers. The most important group is just left out, nobody shows us respect.

Maby we should start a own union, the fans. Come with milions of fans to D.C. or NY and just sit there infront of the mediation room until they stop this stupidness.

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Most fans are not on the owners or players side.

They are on their own side. They just want football the fastest way possible, and aren't interested in right or fair between people trying to divide up nearly 10 BILLION dollars.

Fans (most of them, anyway) are going to show their ire at whoever seems like an impediment to that road to football. And right now, it seems like it is the players who are, nitpicking and seemingly stalling on every single issue.

The owners have basically told the players to put their money where their mouth is. You (meaning the NFLPA) have been saying all Spring and Summer that you want to play football and practice, but the owners were locking you out. Well, now the owners have said "Lockout over. Come back to work Saturday". So do it. Yes it is a pressure move, and probably cancelling the Hall of Fame Game was a pressure move.

As I said before, it has nothing to do with right or fair, it is just the way it is.

Canceling the HOF game was not a pressure move. It was canceled for the simple fact that those two teams wouldn't have enough time to prepare for the game.

---------- Post added July-22nd-2011 at 04:26 AM ----------

I'm against anyone who makes over $300k a year and complains about money.

Yeah, but without those guys, the owners wouldn't be billionaires.

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The owners worked 'hard' to earn the money to buy a team. They keep investing in the teams to keep it up to date (facilities, stadium, coaching etc.) and they do run a financiele risk because al lot of there money is invested in the teams.

I was under the impression a lot of owners inherited either the franchise or the money to buy the franchise, which ones worked hard? Any of them crippled because of it? Do some die young because of it?

Remember this isn't normal business. It's not a coke v pepsi deal.

I still want the owners to open their books. I think some cities that help fund a stadium etc are going to be pissed if that ever happens when/if the gravy train ever comes to light.

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I really hate the injury talk when it comes to players. Sure they have a big risk to get injured, but you can't even compare them to the military, police, firefighters, construction worker and even auto-mechanics, yet most of them get paid dirt and don't have a lot of benefits either. I'm not going to sit around for one second and listen to players whine because they aren't getting enough. If people can survive out here making 20,000 a year, then they should too, even if they are being paid the league minimum.

Quit buying huge houses, expensive cars, etc and everything will be okay. Unfortunately most of them don't listen and then complain about it.

I like that the younger players who aren't making big $$$ are saying hey, I want to play, hopefully that'll get these other rich pains to step it up.

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I'm against anyone who makes over $300k a year and complains about money.

I look at it a little differently. What would any of you do if you were to hire someone to mow your grass or to say be your house keeper and they wanted to see your financial statement before they could tell you what salary they wanted?

The email that should have been sent out from the owners would have read something like this... Guys we are going to have a football team this year and try outs will be on (insert date). We would love to have you show up but completely understand if you dont want to play this year. If you choose to begin a new carreer I would like to be the first to congradulate you and wish you good luck in the future.

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Yeah, but without those guys, the owners wouldn't be billionaires.

And without the fans, there'd be NO football and no mega money for anyone.

That's why people have been pissed off with both sides, not just the players, acting like petulant lil' school kids right through this. Now, with the owners at least making a move to end it, if the players turn them down over a minimal amount compared to what's on the table, than they deserve all the public vitriol that will come their way.

Man up, compromise and get back to doing your jobs already.

Hail.

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