Yahoo: America's biggest teacher and principal cheating scandal unfolds in Atlanta

[Rudechain]

No, the no child left behind concept started under the Clinton Administration. I don't dispute that it was the Bush Administration who pushed it through to completion but this was not a Bush original, so to speak.

I would point out that no changes to the current model have been introduced under this administration. To be honest, McCain wanted to introduce and expand the voucher system as part of his platform but President Obama rejected that in favor of the status quo. I personally think the entire Educatoin Department (Federal) has been a failure. It has consistently spent more and more money while producing lessor and lessor results.

I think we should consider going back to state run education.

are you sure that NCLB was started under Clinton? He was behind the "Improving America's Schools Act" in 1994. And there was LBJ with the Elementary and Secondary Education Act in 1965. So it seems to me, and I could be wrong, but Clinton was trying to improve on LBJ's work in 1965 and Bush tried to improve on Clinton's work in 1994.

[MartinC]

These educators had no choice but to cheat, if the students didn't do well on the standardized tests, they would lose their jobs. You tell me that's successful. You tell me "No Child Left Behind" works when teachers manipulate grades or else they lose their job

Well of course they had a choice. They could have done their level and professional best to educate their kids and prepare them for the test or they could take a short cut and cheat. That some choose to cheat is dissapointing but not surprising. You have to wonder what management action was being taken at State level to verify test results and to set the system up in the in the first place to mitigate as far as possible against cheating which should have been forseen.

As many have said this is not an isolated case, examples have been found in other States over a sustained period and thats likely the tip of the iceberg. The example in Chicago set out in Freakonomics is a good example.

[ABQCOWBOY]

are you sure that NCLB was started under Clinton? He was behind the "Improving America's Schools Act" in 1994. And there was LBJ with the Elementary and Secondary Education Act in 1965. So it seems to me, and I could be wrong, but Clinton was trying to improve on LBJ's work in 1965 and Bush tried to improve on Clinton's work in 1994.

I'm certain that it had it's origins under the Clinton Administration. Was it Clinton's idea? That I can not say 100% but I know that his administration is where it started. I suspect that it came from Kennedy and Clinton tried to push the flag up the hill, so to speak. Bush made a speech after being elected and said that some Democratic Ideas, like no child left behind, were good ones and that he would try and carry on with those good ideas. I remember hearing that speech. I didn't think much about it at the time because I felt as if the general sentiment was correct and that it should be that way. I didn't see the long term effects at the time but it didn't take long to figure them out. Now we are where we are.

The idea was not a bad one. In principle, it was a good one. It just had unforeseen effects that have proven to be bad IMO. It was a mistake. We should correct it and move on. That's kinda how I see this.

[Busch1724]

I liken this situation to boosters in the NCAA. You have a system that encourages cheating. You know how to get rid of it almost completely? Charge each person involved with cheating and in the case of the NCAA the boosters that give money to students with a felony. You need to have a deterence policy.

[Rudechain]

I'm certain that it had it's origins under the Clinton Administration. Was it Clinton's idea? That I can not say 100% but I know that his administration is where it started. I suspect that it came from Kennedy and Clinton tried to push the flag up the hill, so to speak. Bush made a speech after being elected and said that some Democratic Ideas, like no child left behind, were good ones and that he would try and carry on with those good ideas. I remember hearing that speech. I didn't think much about it at the time because I felt as if the general sentiment was correct and that it should be that way. I didn't see the long term effects at the time but it didn't take long to figure them out. Now we are where we are.

The idea was not a bad one. In principle, it was a good one. It just had unforeseen effects that have proven to be bad IMO. It was a mistake. We should correct it and move on. That's kinda how I see this.

But this all started with LBJ back in 1965. Clinton improved upon it in 1994 and then Bush with NCLB in 2001. I did find that Clinton was working on HB 1804 otherwise known as Goals 2000 Educate America Act and I suppose you could somehow tie that to NCLB. But to me it looks like it amends the Elementary and Secondary education act of 1965.

What's interesting is John Boehner was an author for NCLB.

As chairman of the House Committee on Education and the Workforce from 2001 to 2006, he co-wrote the bill establishing the first private school choice program in the District of Columbia, and worked with other reformers to ensure parental choice provisions were included in the bipartisan No Child Left Behind Act to reinforce its goal of bringing greater accountability to taxpayer-funded education programs.

http://johnboehner.house.gov/Biography/

And NCLB was introduced in the first session of the 107th congress (2001-2002) during Bush's watch.

I agree that the idea in principle was good, but I don't think the way they went about it in 2001 ( under Bush and signed into law by Bush on Jan. 8 2002) the correct way.

Are you sure about Clinton?

[PeterMP]

But this all started with LBJ back in 1965. Clinton improved upon it in 1994 and then Bush with NCLB in 2001. I did find that Clinton was working on HB 1804 otherwise known as Goals 2000 Educate America Act and I suppose you could somehow tie that to NCLB. But to me it looks like it amends the Elementary and Secondary education act of 1965.

What's interesting is John Boehner was an author for NCLB.

As chairman of the House Committee on Education and the Workforce from 2001 to 2006, he co-wrote the bill establishing the first private school choice program in the District of Columbia, and worked with other reformers to ensure parental choice provisions were included in the bipartisan No Child Left Behind Act to reinforce its goal of bringing greater accountability to taxpayer-funded education programs.

http://johnboehner.house.gov/Biography/

And NCLB was introduced in the first session of the 107th congress (2001-2002) during Bush's watch.

I agree that the idea in principle was good, but I don't think the way they went about it in 2001 ( under Bush and signed into law by Bush on Jan. 8 2002) the correct way.

Are you sure about Clinton?

I'm pretty sure that NCLB is an outgrowth of a TX plan that Bush implemented while govenor.

http://chronicle.com/article/Texas-Study-Suggests-No-Ch/40460/

[Rudechain]

I'm pretty sure that NCLB is an outgrowth of a TX plan that Bush implemented while govenor.

http://chronicle.com/article/Texas-Study-Suggests-No-Ch/40460/

Well that makes sense considering it says so in the article.

A recent study of the impact of Texas’ public-school accountability system, which served as a model for the federal No Child Left Behind Act, found that it directly contributed to lower graduation rates in the large urban districts examined by creating incentives for schools to welcome the early departure of academically troubled students.

[PeterMP]

Well that makes sense considering it says so in the article.

A recent study of the impact of Texas’ public-school accountability system, which served as a model for the federal No Child Left Behind Act, found that it directly contributed to lower graduation rates in the large urban districts examined by creating incentives for schools to welcome the early departure of academically troubled students.

Yeah and the other thing is that people were cheating in TX too.

http://www.richgibson.com/houstonschools.html

[Larry]

Yeah and the other thing is that people were cheating in TX too.

http://www.richgibson.com/houstonschools.html

Cheating in Texas? I'm shocked.

(Sooner fan, getting in some partisan college football digs.)

[HailGreen28]

The test was too hard! Test are stupid and don't prove anything anyways! I had to pass the test!

What's the difference between a student caught cheating saying this, and a group of school staff caught cheating saying this?

[twa]

Well that makes sense considering it says so in the article.

A recent study of the impact of Texas’ public-school accountability system, which served as a model for the federal No Child Left Behind Act, found that it directly contributed to lower graduation rates in the large urban districts examined by creating incentives for schools to welcome the early departure of academically troubled students.

From my recollection they were diverted into alt education centers if tutoring and curriculum changes didn't help...not departing from schools period

[Rudechain]

I recall reading about a high numbers of dropouts in Texas but am not sure of the accurracy

[twa]

I recall reading about a high numbers of dropouts in Texas but am not sure of the accurracy

Certainly a high number,but there are also programs directed to prevent it. (about 30% of 9th graders will not graduate)

Hard to fight culture and the lure of money to young hispanics......many of us work from a early age,and in a lot of cases it is expected of them.

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:wc_cKxGq_8wJ:www.edb.utexas.edu/hsns/HSNSbrief2.pdf+texas+dropout+rate+vs+us&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESicv0zQqctFXMffTRwN7FRJwQ6MZj7q6MScliahseOyMnt9yFVKyUn4ECY1_vjx36VDTnNv6EFvQugt117Zq8Ok_pvSI6Uztt3LuZJgTYg2Ri4EELQH8K_52QXJmHIikodkO5O-&sig=AHIEtbRa6zKBmON6JBRn_V5JJm4q6tSOUg

[Rudechain]

I actually graduated from high school in San Antonio many many moons ago (1985). I don't remember 1 in 3 students dropping out back then.

But why does Texas have such a poor graduation rate? In 2009 they had the 43rd best graduation rate in the country with only 61.3 percent completing high school.

http://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2010/feb/05/bill-white/texas-has-43rd-best-graduation-rate-united-states/

Somewhere along the line, the public education system and the students parents have failed. I am not sure of why, but it certainly did not seem that high when I graduated.

[twa]

I blame the Mexicans

http://www.idra.org/Research/Attrition/

Much has changed in 25 years…

but the dropout problem hasn't.

At 29 percent, the overall attrition rate was less than 30 percent for the first time in 25 years.

About three of every 10 students from the freshman class of 2006-07 left school prior to graduating with a high school diploma – meaning, Texas public schools are failing to graduate one out of every three students.

The gaps between the attrition rates of White students and Hispanic students and Black students are dramatically higher than 25 years ago. The gap between the attrition rates of White students and Black students has increased from 7 to 18 percentage points, and the gap between the rates of White students and Hispanic students has increased from 18 to 24 percentage points.

Five Texas regions have persistently high student attrition rates, and racial-ethnic gaps have increased in all regions.

your politifact stat is a bit off as it does not account for many aspects

[Rudechain]

Hence the reason I asked you why the dropout rate is so high TWA.

I still don't recall a high drop out rate when I was there in high school, but that's probably because the bong resin was getting in the way. I do recall one person dropping out and it was big news around the school and us classmates, but I can only recall one. If it were so high back then, I suspect I would have heard of more but I don't doubt it could have been pretty high nearly thirty years ago.

What I did find interesting was attrition rates and how hispanic drop out rate is so much higher. So I did a little digging about where I graduated in Bexar county and looked at those attrition rates for 2008-2009. I found these on the IDRA site. thanks for the link. some good info there.

2008-2009 Bexar black42 white24 hispanic45 total39

Those numbers are a bit of a concern.

so I looked back to see if they improved from the prior school year

2007-2008 Bexar black40 white23 hispanic46 total 40

modest improvement in one year but still troubling that Bexar county has a 40 percent attrition rate. So I went back to the 2006-2007 school year

2006-2007 Bexar black37 white23 hispanic43 total38

Ok so this is a serious problem here that is going to cost the state of Texas in income

"In 1986, IDRA conducted Texas' first comprehensive statewide study of high school dropouts. Using a high school attrition formula, IDRA found that 86,276 students had not graduated from Texas high schools that year, costing the state $17 billion in forgone income, lost tax revenues, and increased job training, welfare, unemployment and criminal justice costs"

http://www.idra.org/IDRA_Newsletter/October_2000_Dropout_Prevention/Attrition_Rates_in_Texas_Public_High_Schools/

and in the same article

"The annual attrition rate has increased by 21 percent from 1985-86 to 1999-00. Over the past 15 years, attrition rates have fluctuated between 31 percent and 43 percent. However, there has been an upward trend in attrition rates over the period, from 33 percent in 1985-86 to 40 percent in 1999-00. The percentage of students who have left school prior to graduation has increased by 21.2 percent from 1985-86 to 1999-00.

Numerically, 146,714 students were lost from public high school enrollment during the period of 1996-97 to 1999-00 as compared to 86,272 during the period of 1982-83 to 1985-86. From 1998-99 to 1999-00, the attrition rate declined by 4.7 percent, from 42 percent to 40 percent. "

Those numbers tell me that there are serious problems in the Texas School system and it's quite sad.

[twa]

Those numbers tell me that there are serious problems in the Texas School system and it's quite sad.

The problem goes beyond the school system,it lies in immigration and welfare policy and the sub-caste it creates.

There are serious efforts in the Texas schools to address the needs,but they are never gonna beat the system till it changes.

http://www.reporternews.com/news/2010/jul/21/staying-in-school-n-texas-dropout-rate-down-for/

[Rudechain]

Well that's good that we are seeing improvement, and I would be interested when TEA releases the graduation rates by district for that year.

This table I found is interesting, although it's a bit dated (11-2001) it shows graduation rates by state and race.

http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/cr_baeo_t1.htm

Not that it's new groundbreaking news, but it does show that Texas had modest improvement from 2001 to the 2008-2009 school year. ( Ga really looked bad in 2001)

What the heck is Iowa doing to have an overall grad rate of 93 percent? ( this was before NCLB as it was signed into law in 2002 )

[NavyDave]

I wonder how charter school and private school kids would perform with that standardized test?

Its time for the monopoly know as public schools get a little help via competition and most parents as well as children get an option known as School voucher. If just half the money alloted to a DC public schoolkid was given to the parents to choose a better school and the rest was given to the school system for a kid not there to cause overcrowding in the classroom both would benefit.

[deejaydana]

So does anyone have any faith at all that any of the teachers and administrators will lose their jobs by this ethical lapse? I have none. This is part of the problem with unaccountable gov't. They did this so they could qualify for federal funds, get caught with their pants down and probably nothing will happen as a consequence. The children get screwed once again.

[twa]

I believe all that confessed were already fired(about 80),of course they will probably just rehired elsewhere.

to much publicity to sweep under the rug.

---------- Post added July-9th-2011 at 02:08 PM ----------

What the heck is Iowa doing to have an overall grad rate of 93 percent? ( this was before NCLB as it was signed into law in 2002 )

Do they practice social promotions?....in Texas it used to be if you showed up long enough they would give ya a diploma just to get rid of you.(I graduated with some kids that could barely read)

stats are only as good as the controls used in compiling them

add

a quick search shows Iowa practiced social promotions and fought grade retentions.

more

Every state, except Iowa, has adopted standards in at least some academic subjects and 48 states have testing programs designed to measure how well students perform on those standards (Olson, 2000).

numbers only tell part of a story:)

[techboy]

So does anyone have any faith at all that any of the teachers and administrators will lose their jobs by this ethical lapse?

I don't know anything about that school district, and I haven't been following this very closely (and frankly, just the word "school" is verboten in my house right now ), but in the county I work in, there are teachers fired every year for what seem to be lesser lapses involving standardized testing, in this case the SOL tests, or at least, that's what we're told in a threatening manner.