Adam Carriker - Core member of our defense for the foreseeable future?

[Chump Bailey]

It seems to me that there exists quite a bit of opinion difference regarding the play and value of DE Adam Carriker whom we acquired in a trade with the Rams, which I thought was an absolute steal. The former 13th overall player selected in the 2007 draft IMO has played extremely well for us. I've seen more than a few posts taking shots at Carriker when commenting to the state of our DL and it's quite puzzling to me in all honesty. Carriker IMO can be our Aaron Smith for several years. I believe he's capable of being that good. I've seen him play up close and it's amazing to me how a guy his size can move so well. Let's not forget that Aaron Smith also has the luxury of playing next to the best NT in the game and Brett Keisel is not exactly a slouch either. Adam is finally playing in a position that best suits him. That, along with the anticipated upgrade at NT when FA starts, leads me to believe that we will see many good things from Adam in the years to come.

To this member, Adam Carriker is without question a core member of this defense and a building block.

What is your opinion?

Happy 4th!

[Darrell Green Fan]

Gotta admit I didn't focus on Carriker as much as you did. But I guess that could be because I don't remember him standing out enough to bother.

[kappaluvacee]

Our D-Line is a sum of all the parts. Until it improves dramatically I don't think any particular person is a lock to be a member on it for several years.

With that said, I this Adam was one of the better trades last season. It just gets overshadowed by the horrible McNabb trade and the Haynesworth saga!

[DRSmith]

I like Carriker it is funny atching him and PD trades jabs on Facebook about who is the strongest in the weight room

[Oldfan]

CB, you will almost certainly get the majority of posters agreeing with you since the unrealistic homer crowd rules on this board. However, in the thread I started last November which asked for objective opinions based on a scale of five, KDawg gave Carricker a 2.5, somewhat below average. I, along with four or five other posters, agreed with KDawg's evaluation on him and others.

Carricker had a couple of top notch games to close out the season. Before that, the coaches reportedly liked his play, but his name was rarely called as making plays. Do those good late games signal improvement or were they just randomly good? In my opinion, Carricker needs to show more to prove that he can be counted on as an average NFL starter at his position.

I started this thing of grading core players, but there's no reason that you, or anyone else, has to agree with my standards for selection. I have six or seven players on my core list now. If someone wants to relax the standards, they can come up with 8, 9, 10 or 11 core players.

I'm now thinking this is a pointless exercise. I'm going to try to come up with an objective standard for measuring the current quality of our roster that leaves no room for debate on individual qualifications.

[wwSEANd]

CB, you will almost certainly get the majority of posters agreeing with you since the unrealistic homer crowd rules on this board. However, in the thread I started last November which asked for objective opinions based on a scale of five, KDawg gave Carricker a 2.5, somewhat below average. I, along with four or five other posters, agreed with KDawg's evaluation on him and others.

I felt he was a 3.5 at the very least. He did his job, and he did it well. I don't want to imply that you don't know what to look for, because I respect your knowledge of the game, but you do say this...

the coaches reportedly liked his play, but his name was rarely called as making plays.

... seems to imply that you feel that a 3-4 DE is a position which allows for lots of "playmaking." I noticed him several times this past season doing very impressive things, and only once or twice noticed him screwing up. More often than not, he had to compensate for the NT beside him screwing up, and he did well in that respect.

I'm going to try to come up with an objective standard for measuring the current quality of our roster that leaves no room for debate.

I don't think such a thing can be made. Even if you do, it's just going to be a measure of what you think is true/important.

[DWinzit]

I don't consider him a core member. I do however hope they use him as one of the pieces of the future. I've always been a fan and if he can keep himself healthy, could become a bigger part of the defense.

Carricker had a couple of top notch games to close out the season. Before that, the coaches reportedly liked his play, but his name was rarely called as making plays. Do those good late games signal improvement or were they just randomly good? In my opinion, Carricker needs to show more to prove that he can be counted on as an average NFL starter at his position.

I'm hoping that came from more consistency (Fat Albert) and familiarity with the players around him as well as coaches. Another thought was is it possible early in the season could he still have been feeling the affects or being tentative as a result of the 2009 season ending shoulder issue?

[Oldfan]

... seems to imply that you feel that a 3-4 DE is a position which allows for lots of "playmaking."

What I said didn't imply that at all. It implies that SOME playmaking is expected from the position. We, in fact, saw some in a couple of late season games.

[SkinsWarrior81]

Another thread where Oldfan reminds us all how much better of a fan he is. Who would have thought?

Carriker was a diamond in the rough last year considering how bad our defense really was. He was able to hold down the position all year with little to no screw ups. In a first year 3-4, that was pretty great all things considered. For what we gave up for him, this was a steal. Whether you like him or not is not really relevant, considering there will be nothing done and no one brought in to unseat him. He instantly melded with the team and played well enough to be the starter. He did what he was supposed to do considering the utter lack of a NT next to him for most of the season.

Is it a coincidence that you feel his play got better as the year went on, when it is considered that Anthony Bryant's play got much better as the year went on? I think it took some time for the D to kind of gel and with the emergence of at least a serviceable NT for a few games, the level of play increased.

[bowhunter]

PD is 38, Vonnie H is 35. We have 2 youngsters in JJ1 and JJ2. I hope Carriker develops into a core guy. He has the tools. I think if the rest of the DL(read NT) gains some consistency, and Kerrigan/Orakpo creata a fearsome outside rush, then he will flourish. I don't know enough about our D scheme to say for certain if not hearing his name is a bad thing.

[gutlead74]

no one ever appriciates a two gap DL. except his LBs. my only beef with Adam is he consistantly one of the last off the ball.

[NewCliche21]

I'm with SkinsWarrior81 and the OP. He improved as Bryant stepped it up. From my sophomoric knowledge of line play, the improvement of one player raises the ceiling of play for the rest of the linemen as attention has to be more evenly distributed. This is the same logic as believing that Kerrigan's mere presence will improve Orakpo's performance.

[Skins4SB]

How would any of you evaluate his play last season? To be quite honest, I don't recall hearing his name called throughout the year.

[Oldfan]

Another thread where Oldfan reminds us all how much better of a fan he is. Who would have thought?

I'm on a streak. I think this is the third poster in a row with the "no new threads" tag taking personal shots at me. I must be doing something right.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

I'm on a streak. I think this is the third poster in a row with the "no new threads" tag taking personal shots at me. I must be doing something right.

Of, I was gona' pick up on the irony in that; but I figured I'd leave it to you as your this months, uhmmm, 'popular' poster.

As for Carriker ..... solid depth who's useful whilst we re-build (only so many positions you can attend to at a time); but with the best will in the World if your wanting to progress he's not upper echelon NFL starting caliber IMHO.

Hail.

[Audible_Red40]

Carriker is solid no doubt about it. His play will get better with better personnel around him. A 3-4 DE will never be too flashy all alone.

[SkinsWarrior81]

I'm on a streak. I think this is the third poster in a row with the "no new threads" tag taking personal shots at me. I must be doing something right.

Yes... I remember every day with shame when I got completely drunk and wrote about Rex Grossman and his sexual prowess. I certainly am crying inside over it.

If I were taking a "personal shot" at you, it would be in no uncertain terms. What I did do was point out the truth, where you again called everyone else an "unrealistic homer crowd". Certainly not the first time I remember you touting how much more insightful you are than almost everyone else.

With that, you are still wrong. Carriker was at the least a serviceable starter throughout the season with a very poor, unorganized, undermanned, and inconsistent defense. His improved play came specifically with the improved play of those around him. That did actually happen, and it doesn't take an unrealistic homer to see it. To come up with a serviceable starter with a high upside playing in his natural position on a developing and newly young defense, it is not a far flung idea that this man could be a very core member of the defense for years to come. He bonded well with the vets, earned the respect of the team and coaches, and hes a great mindset for the game and the way the coaches want their team run.

Is going against the grain of your anti-trade/FA rant so much that you are looking for one of the only decent spots of our D last year to be mediocre/bad?

[757SeanTaylor21]

How would any of you evaluate his play last season? To be quite honest, I don't recall hearing his name called throughout the year.

Not in the last few games??? How many times do u expect to hear a 3 4 de name?? He does his job well enough and will get better. Think of it as his rookie season in a 34 because he played in a 43 in stl. Give him a break. Hes not supposed to make many plays due to the system. He had 37 tackles 1.5 sacks in his first year

[bedlamVR]

unrealistic homer crowd rules on this board.

Or redskins fans - rules on this board - a redskins fan board - who would have thunk it ?

I know you would much rather every thread be about you and everyone bowing down to your amazing football knowledge - but unfortunately other people want to talk about other things and sometime - and maybe you need to be sat down for this - their opinions differ from your own .

As for Carriker I think he will be a valuable contributor to the team for years to come . He was a major steel for essentially a swap of 5th round picks - he did his best on a Dline in flux - it looks like we will be featuring two new starters on the line this season and he will get better .

I never understand the stitch that you and a couple of others have (KDawg springs immediately to mind) that you will spend hours on the Redskins message board whinning about absolutely everything the skins FO do or do not do . If it is always raining instead of getting wet is it not a better option to look for that one bright spot - the break in the cloud ? It is interesting that you have a pop at SW81 for having NNT where as you have - well no rating - the Mods give you an extra long rope because of your history here but really does this give you pleasure ?

[Est.1974]

My initial reaction is to jump in and say yes. Liked the trade we pulled off to get him, and thought he had a strong season.

But, maybe his solid play is being overstated due to the lack of production from others around him? And, how did his play rank against that of Golston at RDE ? And not too many will consider him a core member for our future.

Its a tough call, but I'd say that he has played well enough to continue at LDE for another season. Hopefully he can improve by getting another full season under his belt, with perhaps some greater assistance from whoever we have at NT.

[Oldfan]

Bedlam ~ As for Carriker I think he will be a valuable contributor to the team for years to come. He was a major steel for essentially a swap of 5th round picks - he did his best on a Dline in flux - it looks like we will be featuring two new starters on the line this season and he will get better .

Notice that this poster does not offer a clear-cut opinion on the topic -- which was whether or not Carricker ought to be considered a CORE PLAYER. However, he opposes my opinion. Yet, rather than argue for his position, he writes two full paragraphs amounting to the common logical fallacy known as the Ad Hominem.

An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/ad-hominem.html

I know you would much rather every thread be about you and everyone bowing down to your amazing football knowledge - but unfortunately other people want to talk about other things and sometime - and maybe you need to be sat down for this - their opinions differ from your own .*

I never understand the stitch that you and a couple of others have (KDawg springs immediately to mind) that you will spend hours on the Redskins message board whinning about absolutely everything the skins FO do or do not do . If it is always raining instead of getting wet is it not a better option to look for that one bright spot - the break in the cloud ? It is interesting that you have a pop at SW81 for having NNT where as you have - well no rating - the Mods give you an extra long rope because of your history here but really does this give you pleasure ?

[bedlamVR]

My initial reaction is to jump in and say yes. Liked the trade we pulled off to get him' date=' and thought he had a strong season.

But, maybe his solid play is being overstated due to the lack of production from others around him? And, how did his play rank against that of Golston at RDE ? And not too many will consider him a core member for our future.

Its a tough call, but I'd say that he has played well enough to continue at LDE for another season. Hopefully he can improve by getting another full season under his belt, with perhaps some greater assistance from whoever we have at NT.[/quote']

I think Carriker doesn't get the credit he deserves . He is stout against the run - the problem is the rest of the line and the LBs were all learning their way in the system . I thought Carriker would have been a star if he had been picked by a 3-4 team in 2007 but injuries and being on the Rams 4-3 has set him back a little .

He is 27 he could seriously be playing his game for 5 years at a high level ... he also looks a little like a little spooky ... not sure why everyone wants to wash out the good with the bad .

Our biggest issue on the line was lack of depth ... Golsten was a good rotational player - Carriker was a good starter but beyond there we had the aging Daniels the hmm what is he Jarmon ... NT was a disaster - Bryant was a nice surprise but not what you would call a ***** starter

To answer another posters point - I think Carriker has the potential to be a CORE member of the team - whatever that means - on a team where the identity is still a little in flux on O and D it seems a little bit of an odd discussion . But I will say one thing so I am clear on this . If the team is allowed to come together and the philosophy is nurtured then I can see 7 or 8 players who will play prominent roles on the team and Carriker may well be one of them .

[kubstix]

Carriker was good. Certainly warrants a start next season without his job being in jeopardy. I'de like to see him improve though. I hope we could get a force at NT. I'm fairly confident in Orakpo and Kerrigan to create some pressure this season.

[TSO]

To me, it's simple. This was the first year in a 3-4 Defense, and even more importantly, a lot of missing pieces to the 3-4 puzzle existed, so I think it would be really unfair to categorize anyone just yet. Most especially players on the Dline who absolutely need a big, imposing force at NT beside them to survive. We didn't have that, and thus, trying to judge a guy like Carriker right now is next to impossible for those of us without the knowledge of the calls being made by Haslett as well as the game film to study what Carriker did specifically within the scheme.

That being said, Carriker finished the season very strong and was severely overlooked due to the fact that the games didn't count much by week 13. So if I were forced to answer yes or no to the original question proposed in this thread, then Id say yes, he's a core member. I'd have to weigh his production in the final 3-4 games in this defense much more than anything else, and when doing so, I'm not sure how anyone can come to the conclusion that he's anything but a core member. He was all over the place at the end there, making plays almost every other down and that's not an exaggeration.

[paloosa]

Adam Carricker does his job and will never be a guy that will get you a lot of sacks which is indicated in his 3.5 sacks since being drafted. He isn't living up to his #13 draft status when only Amobi Okoye #10, Tim Crowder #56, and Charles Johnson #83 have more than 10 sacks since being drafted. Jamaal Anderson #8 has 4.5, Justin Harrell #16 has 0, and Jarvis Moss has 4.5 in that same draft. So how is he a core member and a building block?