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Lets Talk GOATs


Vilandil Tasardur

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I've been alone at work for 6 hours now without a single customer. I'm bored out of my mind. Lets talk GOATs. Break it down by position and then we can compile a list of the top however many players of all time. Lets have fun with it. I'll get us started with my opinion of several positions, you guys feel free to argue mine or add your own lists. Personally, I'm going to stick to retired or nearly retired players, but there's no reason you guys have to.

QB

Montana

Elway

Favre

Marino

Moon

RB

Jim Brown

Barry Sanders

Walter Payton

Emmitt Smith

Paul Hornung

WR

Jerry Rice

Don Hutson

Marvin Harrisson

Art Monk

Michael Irvin

There, these are just a few to get us started and get us arguing. I think it would be fun to get a top 5 list at every position, and then once we have a reasonable consensus, try and come up with a top 50 of all time or something of the likes. What the hell, it's a lock out :helmet:.

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QBs

Jurgensen

Baugh

Kilmer

Theisman

Rypien

Williams

I might put Unitas in that list somewhere, along with that guy who played for the 49ers a few years back...maybe even the guy in NE right now.

WRs

Taylor

Monk

Clark

Brown

Seay

If I had to, I'd put Rice in there, and maybe Swann and Alworth.

RB

Riggins

Larry Brown

Ernest Byner

Davis

Thomas

Of course, one could squeeze Jim Brown in that group, along with Barry Sanders and maybe Dickerson.

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:ols: I love you tr1.

In seriousness, my standard for GOAT is that you had to have helped revolutionize the position and/or the game of football in some way. So for QB, I'd list Montana and Manning. Montana because he(along with Bill Walsh)brought the West Coast Offense into the mainstream. Manning because no QB has ever had as much responsibility for his offense as well as overall football IQ. I mean all the stuff he does pre snap and what not.

WR is obviously Jerry Rice. Nobody else is even close. Maybe Andre Johnson in Larry Fitzgerald will be in the discussion in 5-10 years.

RB is tough. Barry Sanders probably had the most natural ability out of any RB to ever play. It's hard for RBs to revolutionize the game. Marshall Faulk deserves attention because of his ability to run and catch. Gale Sayers too since I believe he was the original RB who could also catch, but that's waaaay before my time. Jim Brown too for his pure power, but he's a bit overrated in my eyes because the competition he faced was just so physically inferior(he was basically the Wilt Chamberlain of the NFL).

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Tr1, that was beautiful.

My standard for QBs tends to fall into three categories. Lots of rings, lots of stats, or both. Within these categories, some guys get bumped up or down based on how they revolutionized the game. That's why how I put my list together.

Montana doesn't have all the stats, but he's got the rings and he revolutionized the game as you said. To me, Elway and Favre are next. They have rings, and they have the records, Favre especially. Marino is just behind them; he had every record Favre does now, but Favre had the hardware. My fifth spot could have gone to Manning, but I'd personally give it to Brady before I gave it to Peyton. And I chose Moon for pure longevity, trail blazing at the position, and because I want to see where Manning and Brady are when they retire.

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Gota' add Baugh and Peyton to the QB list.

Baugh as he single handedly redefined the position and the game into what it is today. Arguably the single greatest football player to ever suit up and play this great game.

And Peyton because, even with the knock on him about a lack of rings/ choking in the big games in college and the pros, I don't think there's EVER been a more complete student of the game. Dude literally knows what's going on with EVETYONE on his team, offense and defense; and what every single players job is at any given time. Aside from his physical attributes placing him RIGHT up there with ANY QB from ANY era IMHO.

Roger Craig would be worthy of consideration on the RB list, as he took that position to a whole other level in adding a serious receiving threat to his running abilities. And I guess you'd also put Marshall Faulk up there in that same bracket as a duel threat back.

I see HailGreen has added a TE. Ditka's a good call, and I'd add Kellen Winslow Snr, a man who single handedly redefined the position as a pass catching threat. Then in the modern era, Gonzalez and Gates have taken his lead to ridiculous new levels.

Hail.

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Manning is the best ever. He is the general on the field and beats you with his mind before he beats you with his arm. Harrison are Wayne never would have sniffed the HALL without him. He has the stats to back it up but one thing everyone overlooks is he has never had an aggressive coach.

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My brain agrees about Manning, but I just can't back you guys emotionally.

For every wonderful play Manning makes in the regular season, he pulls a Lebron when the play offs come around. I'l never forget the image of him in the 4th quarter losing against the saints. He was sitting on the bench with a towel on his head, sulking like a baby. He wasn't on his feet rallying his teammates. He wasn't in the coach's ear discussing strategy. He wasn't throwing passes getting ready to lead his team. He's already mentally quit. I just can't put him top 5, I just can't.

Elway, Favre, and Marino ALL have better stats then him. Montana has the rings and the WCO to boot. Baugh needs no explanation. Moon played well into his 40s and did things no one thought a black quarterback could do. Brady has matched everything Manning has ever done but has three rings to boot. I just can't give Manning the credit everyone else seems willing to.

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I've been alone at work for 6 hours now without a single customer. I'm bored out of my mind. Lets talk GOATs. Break it down by position and then we can compile a list of the top however many players of all time. Lets have fun with it. I'll get us started with my opinion of several positions, you guys feel free to argue mine or add your own lists. Personally, I'm going to stick to retired or nearly retired players, but there's no reason you guys have to.

QB

Montana

Elway

Favre

Marino

Moon

RB

Jim Brown

Barry Sanders

Walter Payton

Emmitt Smith

Paul Hornung

WR

Jerry Rice

Don Hutson

Marvin Harrisson

Art Monk

Michael Irvin

There, these are just a few to get us started and get us arguing. I think it would be fun to get a top 5 list at every position, and then once we have a reasonable consensus, try and come up with a top 50 of all time or something of the likes. What the hell, it's a lock out :helmet:.

I don't have a problem with any of your QBs, other than Moon. He isn't top 5. Hell, he's not even top 10.

All your RBs are ok, with the excepting of Hornung. He's not one of the 5 best.

Pretty much the only WR you got right was Rice.

---------- Post added June-14th-2011 at 11:10 PM ----------

QBs

Jurgensen

Baugh

Kilmer

Theisman

Rypien

Williams

I might put Unitas in that list somewhere, along with that guy who played for the 49ers a few years back...maybe even the guy in NE right now.

WRs

Taylor

Monk

Clark

Brown

Seay

If I had to, I'd put Rice in there, and maybe Swann and Alworth.

RB

Riggins

Larry Brown

Ernest Byner

Davis

Thomas

Of course, one could squeeze Jim Brown in that group, along with Barry Sanders and maybe Dickerson.

Why did you even bother to reply if you were gonna choose all Redskins? Lame. And not funny.

---------- Post added June-14th-2011 at 11:13 PM ----------

Gota' add Baugh and Peyton to the QB list.

Baugh as he single handedly redefined the position and the game into what it is today. Arguably the single greatest football player to ever suit up and play this great game.

And Peyton because, even with the knock on him about a lack of rings/ choking in the big games in college and the pros, I don't think there's EVER been a more complete student of the game. Dude literally knows what's going on with EVETYONE on his team, offense and defense; and what every single players job is at any given time. Aside from his physical attributes placing him RIGHT up there with ANY QB from ANY era IMHO.

Roger Craig would be worthy of consideration on the RB list, as he took that position to a whole other level in adding a serious receiving threat to his running abilities. And I guess you'd also put Marshall Faulk up there in that same bracket as a duel threat back.

I see HailGreen has added a TE. Ditka's a good call, and I'd add Kellen Winslow Snr, a man who single handedly redefined the position as a pass catching threat. Then in the modern era, Gonzalez and Gates have taken his lead to ridiculous new levels.

Hail.

Roger Craig? As one of the greatest of all time? Seriously?...lol ::facepalm::

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QBs

Jurgensen

Baugh

Kilmer

Theisman

Rypien

Williams

I might put Unitas in that list somewhere, along with that guy who played for the 49ers a few years back...maybe even the guy in NE right now.

WRs

Taylor

Monk

Clark

Brown

Seay

If I had to, I'd put Rice in there, and maybe Swann and Alworth.

RB

Riggins

Larry Brown

Ernest Byner

Davis

Thomas

Of course, one could squeeze Jim Brown in that group, along with Barry Sanders and maybe Dickerson.

/thread

tr1 has all the correct answers already

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For every wonderful play Manning makes in the regular season, he pulls a Lebron when the play offs come around. I'l never forget the image of him in the 4th quarter losing against the saints. He was sitting on the bench with a towel on his head, sulking like a baby. He wasn't on his feet rallying his teammates. He wasn't in the coach's ear discussing strategy. He wasn't throwing passes getting ready to lead his team. He's already mentally quit. I just can't put him top 5, I just can't.

Elway, Favre, and Marino ALL have better stats then him. Montana has the rings and the WCO to boot. Baugh needs no explanation. Moon played well into his 40s and did things no one thought a black quarterback could do. Brady has matched everything Manning has ever done but has three rings to boot. I just can't give Manning the credit everyone else seems willing to.

It sounds to me that you just don't like him and are inventing reasons not to. The Saints never had the ball in the 4th quarter with the lead so your example of him sulking like a baby never happened. You use stats and rings when convenient but downplay their importance when Manning has the edge over somebody.

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Took me a while to actually click on the thread based on the title. I thought that maybe you left the e off of the end of the word. I know I can't be the only one who did this.

Now I need a bit to think about who I think the greatest of all time is at each position. I am old so I have a lot of history to think about.

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