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Thoughts on affirmative action from someone who was hired for his race.


polywog999

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I graduated from a level four daycare for troubled kids. Level five would be a state hospital. I road the short bus to school every morning and there were three people in my graduating class. I, along with George Stark of the hogs, gave speeches that were well received. I entered the work force at aged 19.

I flipped burgers for a while for $3.30 an hour, but my girlfriend at the time wanted a more "dateable" man. She found me a job, but there was a catch - they needed a white guy.

At the time, all I could think of was Wow! I got a job! A job that paid triple what I was making. It was latter on, that the guilt and the feelings of unworthiness set in.

I had taken a job from someone more qualified than me - I had no experience, none. I was young, I was dressed well and I was white - that's it. I barely knew how to count change.

I ended up not looking very white anyway. I am very dark-skinned and I have a tendency to be chameleon like. I was talking like I was from the area in two weeks. I looked dressed and acted like I was born in Landover.

I wanted to be good at what I did. I did not want to be known as a token anything. Try as I may though, I could never live it down. I was even told once, "no, no no! We didn't hire you for ideas....we hired you because you were a white dude!" Junie never meant anything by that, he was making a joke - but it really hurt.

I got very sick in 1984. I was kind of out of my mind for about 6 years. I hung on, best as I could, but I could no longer do the job and I left.

I wanted something more anyway. I wanted to be hired for being a good candidate. For looking and talking sharp, for standing out, but for the right reasons.

I wish there was no reason to have affirmative action. I wish people....all people....could just hire the best guy or gal for the job, regardless of their race. Will it ever happen? I don't think so, but neither do I agree that in the long run, that it was good for me, or anyone else.

Discuss....

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So he got the job because he was white, but then says he didn't look white.

do these two sentences make any sense?

I had taken a job from someone more qualified than me - I had no experience, none. I was young, I barely knew how to count change.

I wanted to be hired for being a good candidate. For looking and talking sharp, for standing out, but for the right reasons

This story is so badly written it can only create more confusion.

Is it Michael Steele?

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I have very mixed feelings about “affirmative action,” which is a very vague term that is generally used to refer to a wide variety of executive orders, laws, regulations, policies, etc. On the one hand, every person applying for a job should be judged solely on the basis of how their education, experience, and skills suit the position. To the extent “affirmative action” requires or permits employers to afford preferential treatment to candidates solely on the basis of race (as opposed to prohibits employers from discriminating against candidates on the basis of race), it is arguably inconsistent with generally accepted principles of fairness.

On the other hand, it is well known that employers do discriminate against people on the basis of their race. For example, in 2003, the University of Chicago published a study that revealed persons with “black sounding” names are 50% less likely to receive call backs from employers than persons with “white sounding” names. In other words, people with “black sounding” names need to find and apply to 50% more jobs than whites, just to receive the same number of call backs as whites. Some might think, “well, maybe the candidates with black sounding names had inferior resumes.” The problem with that speculation is the resumes were fictitious and the researchers sent in substantially similar resumes under different names and received markedly different results.

So, IMO, the questions posed by the fact that many employers discriminate against minorities are: (1) should the government attempt to put some teeth in laws that prohibit discrimination on the basis of race, gender, etc.; and (2) if so, how, keeping in mind that it is often exceedingly difficult to prove that an employer discriminated against a candidate on the basis of his or her race? The answer to the former question is easy, the answer to the latter question is not ... regardless of what the Al Sharpton's and "indifferent masses" might think.

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Part of me honestly thinks you should have felt grateful for getting that job because you are a white guy. I grew up in PG County, went to 90+% all black schools, and was always the tolken whitey. I grew up believing that whitey was in fact the minority, not the majority. Yea I know stupid of me to think like that. As a child that's what I knew. When I first heard about affermative action I didn't connect the dots and thought this was for whitey not darky. Yea I know stupid of me to think like that. I did because of where I come from. When I left the East coast to find my way I never realized how many whitey's were out there. I was litterly culture shocked for many many years because of how things flipped on me. I had a hard time adjusting to life or even relating to whitey, sometimes I still do. Now that I'm grown, have kids of my own, and see the world from different perspective part of me thinks that it's nice to hear that whitey was helped out like you discribed where I come from. Do I think that whitey is held down? Hell no. But I do sorta think that affermative action gives jobs to darky because there are less of them in the workplace then whitey so to me what's good for the goose should be good for everyone right? If whitey is to not get jobs because there are more whiteys in the workforce then darkeys and darkey gets the job because of the color of their skin we are told to accept that. Problem is in certain areas of the country its the reverse right? So shouldn't the flip happen in those areas and whitey get the jobs? Makes sense to me.

Then part of me thinks I'm a dick to think like this and it goes against the very nature of the law or our history. Yea I know I'm stupid to think like this.

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Part of me honestly thinks you should have felt grateful for getting that job because you are a white guy. I grew up in PG County, went to 90+% all black schools, and was always the tolken whitey. I grew up believing that whitey was in fact the minority, not the majority. Yea I know stupid of me to think like that. As a child that's what I knew. When I first heard about affermative action I didn't connect the dots and thought this was for whitey not darky. Yea I know stupid of me to think like that. I did because of where I come from. When I left the East coast to find my way I never realized how many whitey's were out there. I was litterly culture shocked for many many years because of how things flipped on me. I had a hard time adjusting to life or even relating to whitey, sometimes I still do. Now that I'm grown, have kids of my own, and see the world from different perspective part of me thinks that it's nice to hear that whitey was helped out like you discribed where I come from. Do I think that whitey is held down? Hell no. But I do sorta think that affermative action gives jobs to darky because there are less of them in the workplace then whitey so to me what's good for the goose should be good for everyone right? If whitey is to not get jobs because there are more whiteys in the workforce then darkeys and darkey gets the job because of the color of their skin we are told to accept that. Problem is in certain areas of the country its the reverse right? So shouldn't the flip happen in those areas and whitey get the jobs? Makes sense to me.

Then part of me thinks I'm a dick to think like this and it goes against the very nature of the law or our history. Yea I know I'm stupid to think like this.

I actually value your opinion as opposed to some of the other posters who obviously didn't get the point of the thread. I appreciate the fact that a couple of you guys actually took the time to write something thoughtful, instead of getting bent out of shape because you didn't understand.

@ the Jim Zorn crowd -

This is just my two cents. If I'm wrong, please tell me why....not make incredibly stupid jokes. Thanks.

---------- Post added June-2nd-2011 at 03:22 PM ----------

So he got the job because he was white, but then says he didn't look white.

do these two sentences make any sense?

I had taken a job from someone more qualified than me - I had no experience, none. I was young, I barely knew how to count change.

I wanted to be hired for being a good candidate. For looking and talking sharp, for standing out, but for the right reasons

This story is so badly written it can only create more confusion.

Is it Michael Steele?

I don't expect you to get this Bear. It's OK, though. If I want to know how to get the wheels off my mobile home - you are the first guy I think of.

---------- Post added June-2nd-2011 at 03:26 PM ----------

What was the Job that required the person hired to be White?

I worked retail in Landover mall. I actually liked what I did very much; I really got to understand a people better. It was a very wacky time.

---------- Post added June-2nd-2011 at 03:39 PM ----------

I have very mixed feelings about “affirmative action,” which is a very vague term that is generally used to refer to a wide variety of executive orders, laws, regulations, policies, etc. On the one hand, every person applying for a job should be judged solely on the basis of how their education, experience, and skills suit the position. To the extent “affirmative action” requires or permits employers to afford preferential treatment to candidates solely on the basis of race (as opposed to prohibits employers from discriminating against candidates on the basis of race), it is arguably inconsistent with generally accepted principles of fairness.

On the other hand, it is well known that employers do discriminate against people on the basis of their race. For example, in 2003, the University of Chicago published a study that revealed persons with “black sounding” names are 50% less likely to receive call backs from employers than persons with “white sounding” names. In other words, people with “black sounding” names need to find and apply to 50% more jobs than whites, just to receive the same number of call backs as whites. Some might think, “well, maybe the candidates with black sounding names had inferior resumes.” The problem with that speculation is the resumes were fictitious and the researchers sent in substantially similar resumes under different names and received markedly different results.

So, IMO, the questions posed by the fact that many employers discriminate against minorities are: (1) should the government attempt to put some teeth in laws that prohibit discrimination on the basis of race, gender, etc.; and (2) if so, how, keeping in mind that it is often exceedingly difficult to prove that an employer discriminated against a candidate on the basis of his or her race? The answer to the former question is easy, the answer to the latter question is not ... regardless of what the Al Sharpton's and "indifferent masses" might think.

I like. I can agree with this.

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@ the Jim Zorn crowd -

This is just my two cents. If I'm wrong, please tell me why....not make incredibly stupid jokes. Thanks.

He was the only other white guy I could think of who was blindly hired without a shred of experience. But if you want my 100% honest reaction to your story, here goes. I did not get it. Sorry.
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I think affirmative action works for the most part. So, what are the repercussion to our society when someone is discriminated against due to race vs. the negative effects of affirmative action?

imo the effects of discrimination are worst.

I do sorta think that affermative action gives jobs to darky because there are less of them in the workplace then whitey so to me what's good for the goose should be good for everyone right? If whitey is to not get jobs because there are more whiteys in the workforce then darkeys and darkey gets the job because of the color of their skin we are told to accept that. Problem is in certain areas of the country its the reverse right? So shouldn't the flip happen in those areas and whitey get the jobs? Makes sense to me.

Interesting concept. But many times areas with many minorities (PG County) already need the help. Not many opportunities to begin with.

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He was the only other white guy I could think of who was blindly hired without a shred of experience. But if you want my 100% honest reaction to your story, here goes. I did not get it. Sorry.

I don't get your post....he was hired because he was white???

---------- Post added June-2nd-2011 at 05:01 PM ----------

I think affirmative action works for the most part. So, what are the repercussion to our society when someone is discriminated against due to race vs. the negative effects of affirmative action?

imo the effects of discrimination are worst.

Interesting concept. But many times areas with many minorities (PG County) already need the help. Not many opportunities to begin with.

Why are there no opportunities, because of raciest white people, or a lack of motivation by people who live inside the beltway?

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He was the only other white guy I could think of who was blindly hired without a shred of experience.
I don't get your post....he was hired because he was white???

Not trying to hijack or derail the thread, but I still don't get the Zorn thing. Just because he didn't have head coaching experience, it made it a race issue ?

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Why are there no opportunities, because of raciest white people, or a lack of motivation by people who live inside the beltway?

I would say a combination of many things. Lack of education, laziness, racism, ignorance, poverty, crime, drugs, alcohol etc. etc.

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Originally Posted by Thiebear

So he got the job because he was white, but then says he didn't look white.

do these two sentences make any sense?

I had taken a job from someone more qualified than me - I had no experience, none. I was young, I barely knew how to count change.

I wanted to be hired for being a good candidate. For looking and talking sharp, for standing out, but for the right reasons

This story is so badly written it can only create more confusion.

Is it Michael Steele?

Polywog999

I don't expect you to get this Bear. It's OK, though. If I want to know how to get the wheels off my mobile home - you are the first guy I think of.

Good to see your finally putting down roots, I'll google that and get back to you.

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Here's a twist. I retired, on my own initiative, because I couldn't do my job to my standards anymore (and to allow someone in who hopefully could, though it's doubtful such a person would appear (there's a good chance they would be a minority though as hispanics outnumber whitey here) due to my being bad ass even at half strength). Should I feel proud of myself, or was I an idiot? I still wonder sometimes and it's coming on a year.

My mental deficiencies have come on as of late, so you have a whole lot more experience dealing with them than I do, wog. :D

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