NFL.com: In the shadows: Flacco, Forte among guys who deserve credit (Redskin mention)

[Califan007 The Constipated]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82019866/article/in-the-shadows-flacco-forte-among-guys-who-deserve-credit

As the late comedian Rodney Dangerfield used to say, "I don't get no respect." The same holds true for certain players around the league.

Last week, I had to react to the fact that Eli Manning didn't make the Top 100 Players of 2011, and it got me thinking about perception of other overlooked players. Whether it's public or media-driven, there's simply not enough attention paid to certain guys. We recognize they're good, but we don't always see them as really good.

Some players deserve recognition for just how good they are, and hopefully this will shed a little light on what they bring...

Santana Moss, WR, Redskins

Santana Moss is a free agent, but you wouldn't know it with all the speculation about Randy Moss, Terrell Owens, Plaxico Burress and Chad Ochocinco. Santana Moss finished fourth in the NFL last year with 93 receptions and 10th in yardage. He hasn't missed a game in three years, you never hear a peep out of him and he's younger than the guys mentioned above. His six touchdown receptions tied him with Larry Fitzgerald, Santonio Holmes and DeSean Jackson. Santana Moss also had 61 of his 93 receptions for a first down, which was tied for fourth best in the league and more than Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson, Calvin Johnson, Marques Colston or Dwayne Bowe.

[Conn]

Looking back on Moss' career, I have similar regrets to those I have for Portis' career as a Redskin...

I really wish he had a QB who could hit a deep ball when he was here (other than a few from Brunell). He'd be much more highly regarded around the league.

I'm still not sure that I really want him back, with the shape this franchise is in, but I can respect him for what he's done and remember him as the "Cowboy Killa" who could have done so much more with his talent, if his franchise didn't hold him back.

[Voice_of_Reason]

I am torn. Part of me wants him back for veteran leadership. Part of me wants to force the young guys on the field.

He probably represents 3-4 wins.

[Conn]

I am torn. Part of me wants him back for veteran leadership. Part of me wants to force the young guys on the field.

He probably represents 3-4 wins.

The homer in me wants to win those 3-4 games. The realist/rationalist in me realizes that those 3-4 games are meaningless if they are won off of Moss' back, since he won't be here when we're real contenders. Never mind the draft position, I hate talking about "wanting" losses to get a QB, etc. But its possible.

I don't really think Moss could swing this team 4 wins on his own, though.

---------- Post added May-31st-2011 at 11:01 PM ----------

A post of mine from the other day on this topic:

Love Moss for the good moments he's had here, and especially the great ones, but I'm ready to move on, and go young on offense completely. Let our young guys battle it out and see who rises to the top, while they mesh (hopefully) waiting for our franchise QB next year. And I think that if you bring Moss back when we aren't going anywhere as a team in the short term, you make him the "artificial" cream of the crop, as he automatically rises to the top of the depth chart and hinders the growth of a young guy.

I put artificial in quotes because while I do believe he would be our best WR, at least for now, I think it would be artificial in the sense that he's just a place-holder no matter what. He's not going to be a huge contributor in 2-3 years when we're ready to really compete. He's just a guy who we have an emotional attachment to, who will "artificially" make us a better team in the short term. While I like watching us win games, I think I'd rather watch us struggle with the future of our franchise while we rebuild and get our **** together, than watch us win an extra game or so by the merits of Moss' more polished skills.

I also think it would be nice for him to really experience winning somewhere while he's still got it.

[Darth Tater]

With the lockout appearing it will, at the very least, take a big bite out of the off season, if we have any desire to develop our WR rookies, Moss is just about assured to be a Redskin next year if he does not get any better offers. We are NOT in position to throw our rookies against the wall and see who sticks. We need to develop them in the best environment possible. The most important aspects of a good development environment are finding the best role models you can get and having the most competitive environment your resources allow.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

...if you bring Moss back when we aren't going anywhere as a team in the short term, you make him the "artificial" cream of the crop, as he automatically rises to the top of the depth chart and hinders the growth of a young guy.

Any young WR worth keeping isn't going to be effected by Moss' presence on the team. His presence on the roster has yet to hinder a young WR's development with the Redskins.

[Diesel__44]

The ESPN list is absolute garbage. Brandon Lloyd was ranked THE #58 PLAYER IN THE NFL. This from a guy who had more YDs last YR than he did his last 5 YRs. So needless to say Moss has 5k more YDs, 2x as many TDs in his career and he's not in the top 100 even though he had 93-1115-6TDs on a terrible team last YR. This list needs to be flushed but it's so full of ish it would clog any toilet.

Seriously Tana is the most underrated player in the NFL.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

No reason why Santana can't be with us. I understand how some want him to go to a contender. But Green Bay was a 6-10 team just 2 seasons ago. I like to think that he could be our Donald Driver or Hines Ward. That vet receiver whose not super explosive, but is clutch, and who gets that first down to barely keep the drive alive. Those guys are low yardage, high reception guys. Like what Santana has turned into.

We have some young WR talent, well, let's let Santana lead by example. He's the only one on the roster who can. He knows the Redskins organization. He's ours. We can bring in other WR's, but they won't be OURS like Santana. Santana will always have a place in our hearts. He steps up big against Dallas.

I know some people want to see him win a ring with a contender. But I'm not ready to let him go, I'm not ready, and crazier things have happened to result in a super bowl with a young QB (Rodgers/Roethlisberger).

[Conn]

Any young WR worth keeping isn't going to be effected by Moss' presence on the team. His presence on the roster has yet to hinder a young WR's development with the Redskins.

You may be right, but there's really no way to know that, if we're being honest.

[elkabong82]

Moss can still put up numbers, and he wants to come back and retire as a Redskin. Plus we just drafted some young WRs who need to learn the ropes and will be doing so in a shortened year because of the lockout, so veteran leadership from a player who has already gone through the first year in the system is going to be more valuable than in years past, so bringing Moss back is a good move, IMO.

[ressecup1987]

I don't like this article... I dont want another team to steal Moss from us.

[Commander PK]

and as soon as he becomes a member of the Washington Redskins again, he will immediately become overrated.

[elkabong82]

I don't like this article... I dont want another team to steal Moss from us.

won't happen. Moss wants to retire a Redskin, we get a hometown discount, and we want him back just as much as he wants to be back. Read his tweets and what lavarleap has said about him. If there is one FA I would make a sig bet on us acquiring, it would be Moss. With the huge learning curve the lockout will toss at our rookies, Moss' experience and leadership at the position is very valuable, and only increases in value as the lockout continues.

what looks better: Armstrong, Austin, a more expensive and older FA WR, hoping Kelly stays healthy, and Hankerson, Robinson, and Paul having maybe a month, month and a half if we're lucky, worth of camp before preseason, with only Armstrong as "veteran" experience in the system

or, Moss at a discount, Armstrong, Austin, Kelly being hurt and released doesn't effect us, Hankerson, Robinson, and Paul with a short time to learn can look to Moss, who will retire a Skin and likely be committed to a final push before his career is over, and has many years experience and excelled, and has a year in Shanny's system under his belt.

[ejay183]

The ESPN list is absolute garbage. Brandon Lloyd was ranked THE #58 PLAYER IN THE NFL. This from a guy who had more YDs last YR than he did his last 5 YRs. So needless to say Moss has 5k more YDs, 2x as many TDs in his career and he's not in the top 100 even though he had 93-1115-6TDs on a terrible team last YR. This list needs to be flushed but it's so full of ish it would clog any toilet.

Seriously Tana is the most underrated player in the NFL.

Yeah I dont understand what the criteria for that list. At first i thought it was body of work (career stats) since McNabb was on the list, but Lloyd is ranked higher than Greg Jennings? Because he had one great season?

[Hubbs]

A post of mine from the other day on this topic:

Love Moss for the good moments he's had here, and especially the great ones, but I'm ready to move on, and go young on offense completely. Let our young guys battle it out and see who rises to the top, while they mesh (hopefully) waiting for our franchise QB next year. And I think that if you bring Moss back when we aren't going anywhere as a team in the short term, you make him the "artificial" cream of the crop, as he automatically rises to the top of the depth chart and hinders the growth of a young guy.

I put artificial in quotes because while I do believe he would be our best WR, at least for now, I think it would be artificial in the sense that he's just a place-holder no matter what. He's not going to be a huge contributor in 2-3 years when we're ready to really compete. He's just a guy who we have an emotional attachment to, who will "artificially" make us a better team in the short term. While I like watching us win games, I think I'd rather watch us struggle with the future of our franchise while we rebuild and get our **** together, than watch us win an extra game or so by the merits of Moss' more polished skills.

I also think it would be nice for him to really experience winning somewhere while he's still got it.

That's an extremely well-written and well-presented series of thoughts, and I can't disagree with any of them. You're right. As much as I always want us to be as competitive as possible, the simple fact is that it's hard to come up with a long-term plan that involves us re-signing Santana. Especially if we could use that money to sign a young lineman or two instead.

It pains me to say this - and I've been a staunch Santana defender over the past couple of seasons - but I think it's best if we move on.

---------- Post added June-1st-2011 at 01:52 AM ----------

No reason why Santana can't be with us. I understand how some want him to go to a contender. But Green Bay was a 6-10 team just 2 seasons ago. I like to think that he could be our Donald Driver or Hines Ward. That vet receiver whose not super explosive, but is clutch, and who gets that first down to barely keep the drive alive. Those guys are low yardage, high reception guys. Like what Santana has turned into.

We don't have a young Aaron Rodgers with several years of preparation waiting on the sidelines, nor a young Ben Roethlisburger with several years of actual play ready to go.

Drafting a new guy next year means we'll be starting over with a rookie. I suppose we could cross our fingers and simply pray that we manage to trade for, say, Matt Flynn, and he turns into the next Matt Schaub, or cross our fingers even harder and hope that Beck actually blossoms into something decent - but that's like "planning" to be George Mason in the NCAA tourny. You can't actually plan for it.

[Redskins4ever]

I've always admired Santana Moss. He's been a leader, and terrific punt returner, and a reliable target in the passing game. I still think the Redskins need his services. With a tandem of Moss and Hankerson, with Armstrong playing in the slot, the passing game will pick up. With Moss's veteran leadership, he can brig tutelage to the young WRs who we drafted.

[TonePatron]

I've said it and I will continue to say it again......If we make Moss a slap in the face offer, he's gone to Miami, that's where his heart is. He is a Professional and he knows DC will give him the most money. Sure he would definetly wouldn't mind retiring in Washington, but I'm sure he would love to retire by his family and friends, in the place where he excelled at and I think grew up at. I think we need Moss here, for team and the fans. Whenever possible let's get a deal done.

Hail to Em'

[pjfootballer]

Yeah I dont understand what the criteria for that list. At first i thought it was body of work (career stats) since McNabb was on the list, but Lloyd is ranked higher than Greg Jennings? Because he had one great season?

What everyone fails to realize is, its the top 100 players for "2010-11". I guessing it is based on last season's stats and not the players career stats. The players voted on it. And who cares really?

[Hitman21ST]

What everyone fails to realize is, its the top 100 players for "2010-11". I guessing it is based on last season's stats and not the players career stats. The players voted on it. And who cares really?

An argument against that would me why Miles Austin is rated at 70 and Santana isn't even on the list. Tana had better stats than Austin last year

[Tweedr01]

i thought deseana was the best wr ever, how can this be if moss has the same # of td's as him?

[Forever21]

I would love to see Moss back in B&G next season.

However, I also would have no problem with him wanting to go somewhere where he might have a chance at a title in the next couple of years. If the Jets want to have their own Welker to play between Holmes and Edwards or R. Moss then they should go for Santana.

---------- Post added June-1st-2011 at 01:09 PM ----------

What everyone fails to realize is, its the top 100 players for "2010-11". I guessing it is based on last season's stats and not the players career stats. The players voted on it. And who cares really?

I bolded the part that speaks the truth.

I think the problem with the list is that the players weren't sure if they were voting for the best players overall. The best players last season. Or the best players based on their entire careers.

The NFL probably wanted that confusion to make the list a bit odd and thus create more discussion.

[Rocky21]

"61 of his 93 receptions were for a first down, which was tied for fourth best in the league"

This is the thing that doesn't get shown on SportsCenter but is the thing that moves the chains, sustains drives, wins football games.

This is also what Art Monk did better than any receiver I can think of not named Jerry Rice.

[Tweedr01]

Any young WR worth keeping isn't going to be effected by Moss' presence on the team. His presence on the roster has yet to hinder a young WR's development with the Redskins.

i agree, if anything it gives them a set 'bar' to beat. if they want that top spot, take it, but you have to be better than moss.

[Warhead36]

I feel bad for Santana Moss. His whole career he's been stuck with mediocre QBs. Imagine if he got drafted by the Colts in 01 instead of his college buddy Reggie Wayne, it'd probably be Moss that would be headed to Canton.

[Tweedr01]

won't happen. Moss wants to retire a Redskin, we get a hometown discount, and we want him back just as much as he wants to be back. Read his tweets and what lavarleap has said about him. If there is one FA I would make a sig bet on us acquiring, it would be Moss. With the huge learning curve the lockout will toss at our rookies, Moss' experience and leadership at the position is very valuable, and only increases in value as the lockout continues.

what looks better: Armstrong, Austin, a more expensive and older FA WR, hoping Kelly stays healthy, and Hankerson, Robinson, and Paul having maybe a month, month and a half if we're lucky, worth of camp before preseason, with only Armstrong as "veteran" experience in the system

or, Moss at a discount, Armstrong, Austin, Kelly being hurt and released doesn't effect us, Hankerson, Robinson, and Paul with a short time to learn can look to Moss, who will retire a Skin and likely be committed to a final push before his career is over, and has many years experience and excelled, and has a year in Shanny's system under his belt.

this!

i am 2 seconds away from making a "Please stay with us Moss" thread just so he knows....we want him just as much as he wants to stay!